ilggant
Unicron
Run...
Posts: 2,666
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Post by ilggant on Apr 11, 2013 2:38:06 GMT -5
Upper midcard is still midcard. There has to be a sort of hierarchy. You have to portray some as being better than others, so when an emergency occurs in the main event scene, they can realistically be pushed upwards. Midcard is alive and strong.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Apr 11, 2013 2:41:28 GMT -5
Upper midcard is still midcard. There has to be a sort of hierarchy. You have to portray some as being better than others, so when an emergency occurs in the main event scene, they can realistically be pushed upwards. Midcard is alive and strong. The problem isn't some guys being better than others. The problem is the lesser guys being booked too weakly. The gap between the better guys and the lesser guys is so big that the lesser guys end up looking like glorified jobbers whenever they're in the ring with them (i.e. Team Hell No and the rest of the tag division) And the only time we get to see these lesser guys is when they're jobbing. They rarely if ever get to look strong by putting on competitive matches against each other. With Superstars being cut down to two matches, and Main Event and SMS primarily featuring uppercard talent, there's no vehicle for these guys to look good. The midcard guys should be used for more than just getting squashed by the monster heel of the month or the newly debuting pet project. What bothers me is that it feels like the current midcard guys will never get their due and newer guys will continue to be signed, called up, and leapfrogged over them in the pecking order.
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Post by The Portable Stove on Apr 11, 2013 3:04:56 GMT -5
There are main eventers, title holders, and warm bodies to make the above two look better. In fact, some of those warm bodies ARE title holders.
The problem lies in the fact that when you see that a midcarder is in the ring, lately the thought process is either "Who are they losing to?" or "Who's coming out to beat them down?" Look at the Truth/Santino/Ryder vs. 3MB match from Raw. Seriously one of the more "who's coming to clean house?" moments, because no one in that group sans R-Truth has been made to look like they even deserve to be on TV. Even when you see Cesaro or Barrett in the ring against someone, there's the dread that you know they're going to lose, it's just a question of "who to?"
The other problem is that it's in the name: Midcard. As in, Middle Of The Card. There are so many main eventers and former-World Champs and title holders that every single one of them has a match, and midcarders rarely get to face off against each other. Which yes, is what Superstars is for, but what channel is that on?
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Apr 11, 2013 3:14:11 GMT -5
There are main eventers, title holders, and warm bodies to make the above two look better. In fact, some of those warm bodies ARE title holders. The problem lies in the fact that when you see that a midcarder is in the ring, lately the thought process is either "Who are they losing to?" or "Who's coming out to beat them down?" Look at the Truth/Santino/Ryder vs. 3MB match from Raw. Seriously one of the more "who's coming to clean house?" moments, because no one in that group sans R-Truth has been made to look like they even deserve to be on TV. Even when you see Cesaro or Barrett in the ring against someone, there's the dread that you know they're going to lose, it's just a question of "who to?" The other problem is that it's in the name: Midcard. As in, Middle Of The Card. There are so many main eventers and former-World Champs and title holders that every single one of them has a match, and midcarders rarely get to face off against each other. Which yes, is what Superstars is for, but what channel is that on? And the midcard champions are either losing to someone, and when they're winning, they're squashing someone, and thus have no realistic contenders for their belts unless one of the main eventers steps down. Then you have to come up with a contrived finish for their matches so that the higher ranking guy doesn't get "weighed down" with a "lesser" title, but doesn't have his credibility hurt by losing to a "lesser" talent (i.e. Orton squashing Cody Rhodes in a conveniently non-title match, Miz accidentally kneeing Cesaro in the balls, or "botching" a move and injuring his ankle).
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Post by Texas Tornado on Apr 11, 2013 3:14:49 GMT -5
There's an uppercard and a lowercard. When guys from each section are in the ring you know who's winning the match (and really, the match outcomes on weekly shows are way too obvious most of the time). The only guy that's been able to be a consistent midcarder is Kofi Kingston because I don't know where the hell he is on that totem pole.
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JCBaggee
Hank Scorpio
Writer, streamer. I used to write for CBR but then they fired everyone who cared about their writers
Posts: 6,787
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Post by JCBaggee on Apr 11, 2013 3:51:46 GMT -5
The issue is that when a midcard guy managed to have a match with an upper card guy, they used to get in some defense. It was a given the midcarder would lose, but they'd still put up a hell of a fight, and these matches and the crowd's reaction were ultimately what would get you from the midcard to the World Title picture.
Now if I see Kofi in the ring with Big Show, I know Kofi's getting a KO Punch and laid out in 20 seconds so Big Show can cut a promo on Randy Orton.
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Post by kamotengkahoy on Apr 11, 2013 8:01:00 GMT -5
When its WM season the lesser main-eventers and some upper midcarders (Orton, Sheamus, Show, Shield, Henry, Ryback, Team Hell No) etc become the midcard while Cena, Punk and the part-timers become the Main Eventers. The midcard becomes the pre-show (not the case this year as I count barrett, miz as upper midcarders) while the lowercard (Dibiase, Yoshi, Mcgillicutty (and the true midcard - Kofi, Cesaro, Ryder, PTP in this years case ) becomes the axxess live events.
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Post by molson5 on Apr 11, 2013 8:53:59 GMT -5
In the attitude era the midcarders didn't work with the main eventers nearly as much, which of course then people complained about because it made the midcarders seem "weak" that they were at an entirely different level.
And of coruse, in the attitude era and in the 80s, the the midcard pretty much started at guy #3 or #4. Today, it starts at #14 or #15, and people want those guys to get the same push that the #3 or #4 guy got in the attitude era. To me its clear that wherever guys stop being featured prominently, people will complain about the exposure of the guys just below that level. If the WWE cut the main eventers' time, cut the upper midcarders' time, and gave full fledged storylines to everybody in the top 30, people would still bemoan the lack of wins and importance given to JTG.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2013 10:49:07 GMT -5
In the attitude era the midcarders didn't work with the main eventers nearly as much, which of course then people complained about because it made the midcarders seem "weak" that they were at an entirely different level. And of coruse, in the attitude era and in the 80s, the the midcard pretty much started at guy #3 or #4. Today, it starts at #14 or #15, and people want those guys to get the same push that the #3 or #4 guy got in the attitude era. To me its clear that wherever guys stop being featured prominently, people will complain about the exposure of the guys just below that level. If the WWE cut the main eventers' time, cut the upper midcarders' time, and gave full fledged storylines to everybody in the top 30, people would still bemoan the lack of wins and importance given to JTG. Of course. There's always someone who will complain about something. That doesn't mean this wouldn't be an improvement over the current product.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Apr 11, 2013 11:18:28 GMT -5
There's always a hierarchy in pro wrestling. Main eventers are the elite. The midcard is in 3 tiers; upper micard, mid midcard (roll with it), and lower midcard. Anything lower midcard is enhancement talent aka jobbers. An upper midcarder going toe to toe with a main eventer is expected. A mid range midcarder beating a lower midcarder is expected. A jobber and/or lower midcarder never beat a main eventer. When a lower midcarder beat a upper midcarder, it was an upset. Without a balance and doing even steven booking for everyone, no one will stand out as stars. And promotions needs stars to make money and survive.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Apr 11, 2013 13:09:42 GMT -5
There's always a hierarchy in pro wrestling. Main eventers are the elite. The midcard is in 3 tiers; upper micard, mid midcard (roll with it), and lower midcard. Anything lower midcard is enhancement talent aka jobbers. An upper midcarder going toe to toe with a main eventer is expected. A mid range midcarder beating a lower midcarder is expected. A jobber and/or lower midcarder never beat a main eventer. When a lower midcarder beat a upper midcarder, it was an upset. Without a balance and doing even steven booking for everyone, no one will stand out as stars. And promotions needs stars to make money and survive. This makes sense, but currently it seems like all everyone does is job to a guy in the higher tier to them. They never get to look strong because no one wrestles anyone on their own level anymore. WWE shows a bit of a pecking order, but because everyone below World Title level is booked so weakly the only times that the lower midcarders DO get to wrestle each other (i.e. Heath Slater vs. Alex Riley, Alex Riley vs. Drew McIntyre, Zack Ryder vs. JTG, or Justin Gabriel vs. Curt Hawkins), the loser just ends up looking like a "jobber to other jobbers" because they lose so many matches that beating someone indirectly makes the other person look bad. The winner only gets built up just to get knocked down again.
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deancubed
Don Corleone
Playing League of Legends
Posts: 1,350
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Post by deancubed on Apr 11, 2013 15:13:15 GMT -5
As of right now:
Main event: Cena, CM Punk, Ziggler (as of this week), Del Rio, Mark Henry (as of this week), Ryback (as of this week), All Part-Timers Not Named Y2J
Upper mid-card: Miz (doesn't matter what haters think, this is where WWE puts him), Bryan, Kane, Shield, Sheamus, Orton, Big Show, Swagger (as of Zeb), All Part Timers Named Y2J
Mid-card: Rhodes, Cesaro, Barrett, Fandaahngo, Sandow, Kofi, Big E, R-Truth, Diva(s) Of The Month (doesn't necessarily include the Diva Champ)
Lower mid-card: 3MB, Khali, Brodus, Tensai, Santino, Ryder, Primetime Players, All Divas Not-Of-The-Month (doesn't necessarily NOT include the Diva Champ)
Lowcards: NXT, Yoshi, JTG, Usos, everyone who i forgot.
Looks OK to me.
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Post by Hit Girl on Apr 11, 2013 15:16:02 GMT -5
They have people physically existing between the curtain jerkers and the main event, but there's no structure, no booking strategy and it's all stop-start and chaotic.
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Mac
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Mac on Apr 11, 2013 21:17:44 GMT -5
The majority of the "big" Mania matches involved aging part timers who won't be part of the storylines week in and week out. The problem isn't no midcard it's that the entire roster is comprised of mediocre midcarders that are world champions or championship contenders one month and bottom dwelling jobbers the next.
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Post by Old Jack Burton on Apr 13, 2013 4:39:17 GMT -5
The mid-card is alive and well. It's called the World Heavyweight Championship.
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