Dat Dude
Dennis Stamp
Wait, what?
Posts: 4,785
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Post by Dat Dude on Apr 18, 2013 12:25:27 GMT -5
He has it all except mic skills and is lacking a bit when it comes to in-ring psychology. But he would be a damn good addition to WWE's roster right about now. As long as he keeps his crazy girlfriend far away. I think, in the long run, this is the #1 reason that I'm glad he's gone. Because I got tired of reading his acolytes who will never doubt anything about his moral fortitude whatsoever, and who scapegoat Melina with no willingness to think otherwise. I mean, seriously. Here's the guy who continues to tell everyone that in spite of his inability to talk, he's going to be a successful actor. Despite the fact that he hasn't wrestled with WWE for a couple years, he continues to insist that people refer to him by his ring moniker derived from a drug-abusing, psychologically-disordered dead rock star. Who in spite of residual, long-term neck injuries refuses to hang it up as a wrestler. He's not once defended Melina from any of the bullshit attacks that people have launched and he does not seem to mind that they're all concentrated on her, nor the fact that they've caused her pretty visible distress. Nor does he spend any time at all talking to fans, or taking the trouble to make appearances to thank them. He's much more comfortable shilling his workout video. Say anything unfounded that you want about Melina, but at least she's the one who takes the time to actually spend time with her fans, and seems to care about what others say about her. Look up the video from her most recent appearance where she spends extra time to hang out with a family that went to the signing and missed the cut off time to actually get admitted. When was the last time John did any of that? When was the last time he ever talked to a fan or spent time with them just to talk to them? Someone can say that I'm biased here and that it's interfering with my conclusion, but John was one of my favorite wrestlers, and many times did I defend him on here. And when I had no evidence to support anything contrary to the negative stories about Melina, I believed those, but now that I know they're fabricated, this is no longer true. As much as Melina gets called "crazy" there's never anything that actually makes it up. Whereas John, if you watch the way that he acts, demonstrates recurring signs of Schizoid Personality Disorder and Antisocial Personality Disorder. Let me address some of your points: first, we don't know how these two interact behind closed doors. For all we know Melina could have told him to not get dragged into it and get involved (you'd be surprized how common this is in relationships). Do you really want to see John be like Matt Hardy when someone says something about Reby Sky? Melina herself doesn't really acknowledge each rumor directly (probably because she sees how futile it is to even try, people are gonna believe what they want to) so why should we expect an indirect party to get involved? I have no idea if John is/was a good boyfriend or not to Melina, if he was cheating on her, if he was leaving her out to dry, because at the end of the day it's none of my business.
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PKO
King Koopa
Posts: 12,613
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Post by PKO on Apr 18, 2013 14:19:39 GMT -5
He has it all except mic skills and is lacking a bit when it comes to in-ring psychology. But he would be a damn good addition to WWE's roster right about now. As long as he keeps his crazy girlfriend far away. I think, in the long run, this is the #1 reason that I'm glad he's gone. Because I got tired of reading his acolytes who will never doubt anything about his moral fortitude whatsoever, and who scapegoat Melina with no willingness to think otherwise. I mean, seriously. Here's the guy who continues to tell everyone that in spite of his inability to talk, he's going to be a successful actor. Despite the fact that he hasn't wrestled with WWE for a couple years, he continues to insist that people refer to him by his ring moniker derived from a drug-abusing, psychologically-disordered dead rock star. Who in spite of residual, long-term neck injuries refuses to hang it up as a wrestler. He's not once defended Melina from any of the bullshit attacks that people have launched and he does not seem to mind that they're all concentrated on her, nor the fact that they've caused her pretty visible distress. Nor does he spend any time at all talking to fans, or taking the trouble to make appearances to thank them. He's much more comfortable shilling his workout video. Say anything unfounded that you want about Melina, but at least she's the one who takes the time to actually spend time with her fans, and seems to care about what others say about her. Look up the video from her most recent appearance where she spends extra time to hang out with a family that went to the signing and missed the cut off time to actually get admitted. When was the last time John did any of that? When was the last time he ever talked to a fan or spent time with them just to talk to them? Someone can say that I'm biased here and that it's interfering with my conclusion, but John was one of my favorite wrestlers, and many times did I defend him on here. And when I had no evidence to support anything contrary to the negative stories about Melina, I believed those, but now that I know they're fabricated, this is no longer true. As much as Melina gets called "crazy" there's never anything that actually makes it up. Whereas John, if you watch the way that he acts, demonstrates recurring signs of Schizoid Personality Disorder and Antisocial Personality Disorder. This is one of the greatest things I've read on these forums. As for the topic at hand, I'd love to see Morrison back!
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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Apr 18, 2013 14:39:54 GMT -5
Antisocial Personality Disorder? So like, Jomo's out there starting riots and upsetting the social order? Telling us to burn all our currency? Taking poops in the water supply? I never heard about any of this. No, that would be a schizophrenic. Loving the total condescension in this thread by the way. There is no such thing as crazy, guys. Not only is that a neologism, but there's no evidence that Melina falls into any major disorder. Emotionality can be averse but something causes John demonstrates dangerous recklessness (continual performance in spite of residual spinal injuries) and shows nothing as far as remorse goes, ever. Those are two of the DSM hallmarks of ASPD. You don't have to be violent to have it and you don't have to be socially withdrawn and antagonistic, either.. Mind you, I'm not even saying he has it. Just that he actually does show hints of disorder but no one ever says anything about it or considers that he could in fact be the one with personal problems. Just promoting some open minded thinking instead of the persistent idea that Melina, the more sociable and personable of the two, isn't all that bad. My point is extreme, but designed to provoke consideration in the opposite. Dude, I like you and all, but this is just... First off, with the whole "reckless" thing - i.e. wrestling with a broken neck - that's not being reckless, that's being a professional wrestler. Hell, Edge wrestled for nine years after spinal fusion and he only quit because a doctor told him to. Hell, Rey's still wrestling and I doubt that out of all the doctors he's seen, not one has suggested retirement. As for the antisociality, would it be kind of asinine to be in a profession like wrestling if he wasn't, at the very least, okay with interaction? Even if he isn't very good at it, at some level, he'd have to be okay with it. As for Melina, that I agree with you on. Clearly she's much more comfortable with crowds than he is, and I don't mean that in a snarky "hurr durr, she sleeps around" sense, but in a genuine sense. Also - and this goes as a whole, not towards anyone in particular - Melina nor JoMo should be judged by each other; both should be judged by their own merits - Melina should be judged for Melina and JoMo should be judged for JoMo.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2013 16:14:36 GMT -5
No, that would be a schizophrenic. Loving the total condescension in this thread by the way. There is no such thing as crazy, guys. Not only is that a neologism, but there's no evidence that Melina falls into any major disorder. Emotionality can be averse but something causes John demonstrates dangerous recklessness (continual performance in spite of residual spinal injuries) and shows nothing as far as remorse goes, ever. Those are two of the DSM hallmarks of ASPD. You don't have to be violent to have it and you don't have to be socially withdrawn and antagonistic, either.. Mind you, I'm not even saying he has it. Just that he actually does show hints of disorder but no one ever says anything about it or considers that he could in fact be the one with personal problems. Just promoting some open minded thinking instead of the persistent idea that Melina, the more sociable and personable of the two, isn't all that bad. My point is extreme, but designed to provoke consideration in the opposite. "Diagnostic criteria for 301.7 Antisocial Personality Disorder (DSM IV - TR) (cautionary statement) A. There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three (or more) of the following: (1) failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest (2) deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure (3) impulsivity or failure to plan ahead (4) irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults (5) reckless disregard for safety of self or others (6) consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations (7) lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another B. The individual is at least age 18 years. C. There is evidence of Conduct Disorder with onset before age 15 years.D. The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course ofSchizophrenia or a Manic Episode." Your association of this to John Morrison to is wacky, imo. You're gonna say that he as an individual never shows remorse from what, Twitter and how he acts at fan signings? This is silliness. You're right, it is silly. But that's my point. Saying that he actually does have ASPD just based on what we've seen of him is about as fair as calling Melina "crazy" based on the information that's also lacking. That is to say, it isn't fair. What I intended to do was spin the whole thing around to point out what lies at the opposite end of the spectrum, in the hopes that it would get people talking and considering the possibility that maybe the prevailing view of Melina is total BS and that people should evaluate John as the performer that he is. Essentially, like this: I'll play devils advocate and say there is no rule against disliking Morrison. I liked him because of his unique ring style and because he had a great look. There is something to be said about taking his side over Melina without knowing all the facts, but there is also something to be said for the fact the she has acted a lot more crazy about events than he has. It is a bit odd for him to keep using his ring moniker and character outside of wrestling, but if he is planning an eventual comeeback perhaps he wants to keep himself fresh in the minds of fans. Yeah, it would be nice if he interacted with fans more, but perhaps he is just a private person, or has kept himself busy enough he does not have time to. Thank you, by the way, for considering that there is a middle road to all of this.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2013 16:28:58 GMT -5
No, that would be a schizophrenic. Loving the total condescension in this thread by the way. There is no such thing as crazy, guys. Not only is that a neologism, but there's no evidence that Melina falls into any major disorder. Emotionality can be averse but something causes John demonstrates dangerous recklessness (continual performance in spite of residual spinal injuries) and shows nothing as far as remorse goes, ever. Those are two of the DSM hallmarks of ASPD. You don't have to be violent to have it and you don't have to be socially withdrawn and antagonistic, either.. Mind you, I'm not even saying he has it. Just that he actually does show hints of disorder but no one ever says anything about it or considers that he could in fact be the one with personal problems. Just promoting some open minded thinking instead of the persistent idea that Melina, the more sociable and personable of the two, isn't all that bad. My point is extreme, but designed to provoke consideration in the opposite. Dude, I like you and all, but this is just... First off, with the whole "reckless" thing - i.e. wrestling with a broken neck - that's not being reckless, that's being a professional wrestler. Hell, Edge wrestled for nine years after spinal fusion and he only quit because a doctor told him to. Hell, Rey's still wrestling and I doubt that out of all the doctors he's seen, not one has suggested retirement. As for the antisociality, would it be kind of asinine to be in a profession like wrestling if he wasn't, at the very least, okay with interaction? Even if he isn't very good at it, at some level, he'd have to be okay with it. As for Melina, that I agree with you on. Clearly she's much more comfortable with crowds than he is, and I don't mean that in a snarky "hurr durr, she sleeps around" sense, but in a genuine sense. Also - and this goes as a whole, not towards anyone in particular - Melina nor JoMo should be judged by each other; both should be judged by their own merits - Melina should be judged for Melina and JoMo should be judged for JoMo. You know, I'd actually like to see some study of professional wrestlers and how many of them have psychological disorders in relation to the average population. With the associated physical/financial risks that discourage most people from doing it and the frat-boy atmosphere, there's a lot of normal people who are discouraged from joining in. The second part, especially the last point you make, I really agree with. I don't think discussions of Melina should be shoehorned into discussions about John or vice-versa. As performers, they're very separate from one another in their approaches, whether towards fans, other wrestlers, the companies they work for, or otherwise. Lumping all that they do together is unquestionably a deprivation of their individual agency as wrestlers.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Apr 18, 2013 17:43:15 GMT -5
Dude, seriously, there's "I like Wrestler A and/or dislike Wrestler B, and I will insistently defend my stances on these wrestlers on internet forums to the point of hijacking unrelated threads to repeatedly make my arguments and I must always have the last word even when aruging against multiple people who are unconvinced by my viewpoints, even when neither performer has even been in WWE for nearly two years" and that's kooky but it's pretty much in line with the sort of stuff all of us post now and then, and then there's... THIS.
I generally like your posts around these parts on topics other than Melina/Morrison, but this is moving beyond "eccentric internet personality" territory into something a lot weirder.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2013 18:07:50 GMT -5
Dude, seriously, there's "I like Wrestler A and/or dislike Wrestler B, and I will insistently defend my stances on these wrestlers on internet forums to the point of hijacking unrelated threads to repeatedly make my arguments and I must always have the last word even when aruging against multiple people who are unconvinced by my viewpoints, even when neither performer has even been in WWE for nearly two years" and that's kooky but it's pretty much in line with the sort of stuff all of us post now and then, and then there's... THIS. I generally like your posts around these parts on topics other than Melina/Morrison, but this is moving beyond "eccentric internet personality" territory into something a lot weirder. I get what you're saying, but I didn't even start it. This got turned into something about Melina independent of me, and I'm calling BS on it, because BS is exactly what it is. I'm just trying to illustrate how irrational the basic argument is by offering a counterpoint that's equally (no more, no less) as wild. That, and in my obsessive-compulsive manner of having discussions, I HAVE to make sure people know exactly what I mean in regards to something that I say. This isn't limited to a particular wrestler, either. Go back to the thread made right after Eve left the company and my endless posts on why someone may (or may not) be a worthy prospective worker for the company. That's probably the most infamous example of me doing that. If that's offensive or annoying, I'm sorry, but I quite literally cannot help it.
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Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
Thank you, Ishmeal Loves Bayley!
Posts: 6,420
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Post by Abdullah on Apr 19, 2013 4:00:36 GMT -5
You know, I'd actually like to see some study of professional wrestlers and how many of them have psychological disorders in relation to the average population. With the associated physical/financial risks that discourage most people from doing it and the frat-boy atmosphere, there's a lot of normal people who are discouraged from joining in. Well, that's a very nuanced statement to make after you'd basically diagnosed a stranger. For what it's worth, I can relate to your reaction. I get the inclination to vehemently defend your favorite from what you think is an unfair, outdated, criticism. In other forums, I've attempted for years to combat the whole 'Carlito is lazy in the ring' narrative. Sometimes, it works. But mostly, people will hold onto their opinions even if the possibility of changing them is as easy as looking up a video online. That was an issue related to his career, though. When you go on these spiels about Melina and Morrison's personal life, it honestly comes off like what I imagine a Kristen Stewart fan might say to an indignant Pattinson fan. Ergo, it's not particularly insightful no matter how much you try to dress it up as such. It's just your fandom showing through. I say this not to be condescending. It's just my effort to point out that, for whoever thinks Melina is a crazy chick, they're probably not going to change their opinion. It's not worth getting invested in, and even if it was, even if you had to, there are ways to do it without comically throwing Morrison under the bus. I mostly enjoy reading what you have to say, just not when it pertains to gossip about wrestlers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 7:01:58 GMT -5
You know, I'd actually like to see some study of professional wrestlers and how many of them have psychological disorders in relation to the average population. With the associated physical/financial risks that discourage most people from doing it and the frat-boy atmosphere, there's a lot of normal people who are discouraged from joining in. Well, that's a very nuanced statement to make after you'd basically diagnosed a stranger. For what it's worth, I can relate to your reaction. I get the inclination to vehemently defend your favorite from what you think is an unfair, outdated, criticism. In other forums, I've attempted for years to combat the whole 'Carlito is lazy in the ring' narrative. Sometimes, it works. But mostly, people will hold onto their opinions even if the possibility of changing them is as easy as looking up a video online. That was an issue related to his career, though. When you go on these spiels about Melina and Morrison's personal life, it honestly comes off like what I imagine a Kristen Stewart fan might say to an indignant Pattinson fan. Ergo, it's not particularly insightful no matter how much you try to dress it up as such. It's just your fandom showing through. I say this not to be condescending. It's just my effort to point out that, for whoever thinks Melina is a crazy chick, they're probably not going to change their opinion. It's not worth getting invested in, and even if it was, even if you had to, there are ways to do it without comically throwing Morrison under the bus. I mostly enjoy reading what you have to say, just not when it pertains to gossip about wrestlers. I already explained this. The whole point is that, in spite of what reasonable foundations the statement has, it's a bit ridiculous to come to that conclusion, and all the more reason to disard the "she's crazy" conclusion that doesn't have any reasonable basis in anything. I didn't say he's actually antisocial, and I can say reasonably that he's not schizoid either. All I said was that he displays hints of it, which, if we can misconstrue emotionality as insanity, we can do the same to that, too. I just want the wrestler guy who this thread was about to be judged as that worker, without throwing someone else into it when there's no evidence that they affected one another's careers after MNM. I usually use the short answer, the logical one, so it gets brushed aside. This though? It got people talking and considering the alternative view. And really, that's what I wanted.
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Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
Thank you, Ishmeal Loves Bayley!
Posts: 6,420
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Post by Abdullah on Apr 19, 2013 7:36:58 GMT -5
Well, that's a very nuanced statement to make after you'd basically diagnosed a stranger. I already explained this. The whole point is that, in spite of what reasonable foundations the statement has, it's a bit ridiculous to come to that conclusion, and all the more reason to disard the "she's crazy" conclusion that doesn't have any reasonable basis in anything. I didn't say he's actually antisocial, and I can say reasonably that he's not schizoid either. All I said was that he displays hints of it, which, if we can misconstrue emotionality as insanity, we can do the same to that, too. That's fair enough, certainly. I guess, if you wanted to make a larger point about a wrestler not being judged harshly for abrasive behavior, you could have cited CM Punk. If nothing else, and I say this as someone who fell in love with his face run, he seems to get a free pass for a lot of his less attractive traits. Your initial assessment of Morrison read as strangely personal and the notion that he's obligated to defend Melina is silly, considering she very well might not want that. They should absolutely be judged individually though. I don't think anyone would have objected if you merely left it at that.
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