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Post by froggyfrog on Aug 24, 2015 1:00:47 GMT -5
Sydal has a shot at KUSHIDA coming up. CJP is interesting. Love the dude and want to see him work but this is unexpected. CJP I just think is an awful worker. He absolutely has no place in NJPW. Wrong. Watch his appearance in CZW. Guy can go.
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Palmer
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Post by Palmer on Aug 24, 2015 1:01:52 GMT -5
CJP I just think is an awful worker. He absolutely has no place in NJPW. Wrong. Watch his appearance in CZW. Guy can go. I did, and I thought he was terrible.
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Post by Raskovnik on Aug 24, 2015 1:54:10 GMT -5
Destruction Cards =================== Okayama 23/9 NEVER Title : Togi Makabe v Kota Ibushi Jr.Heavy : Kenny Omega v KUSHIDA Toru Yano & Kazuchika Okada v AJ Styles & Yujiro Takahashi Alex Shelley, Ryusuke Taguchi, Captain New Japan, Tomoaki Honma & Hirooki Goto v RPG Vice (Berretta & Rocky Romero), YOSHI-HASHI, Tomohiro Ishii & Shinsuke Nakamura Juice Robinson (NXT's CJ Parker), Matt Sydal & Hiroshi Tanahashi v Cody Hall, Tama Tonga & Bad Luck Fale Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan v Karl Anderson & Doc Gallows NWA Jr.Heavy : Steve Anthony v Tiger Mask Mascara Dorada & Jushin Thunder Liger v reDRagon (Bobby Fish & Kyle O'Reilly) Sho Tanaka, Yohei Komatsu, Katsuyori Shibata & Yuji Nagata v Jay White, David Finlay, Manabu Nakanishi & Tetsuya Naito Hyogo 27/9 IC Title : Hirooki Goto v Shinsuke Nakamura G1 Briefcase : Hiroshi Tanahashi v Bad Luck Fale Jr.Heavy Tag : reDRagon v Time Splitters (KUSHIDA & Alex Shelley) Kazushi Sakuraba, Toru Yano & Kazuchika Okada v Tama Tonga, AJ Styles & Yujiro Takahashi Katsuyori Shibata v Tetsuya Naito Matt Sydal, Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan v Kenny Omega, Karl Anderson & Doc Gallows Mascara Dorada, Ryusuke Taguchi, Tomoaki Honma & Togi Makabe v RPG Vice, YOSHI-HASHI & Tomohiro Ishii Tiger Mask, Jushin Thunder Liger & Yuji Nagata v Juice Robinson, Captain New Japan & Manabu Nakanishi Sho Tanaka & Yohei Komatsu v Jay White & David Finlay Okada vs Styles for World Title announced for King of Pro Wrestling in October Naito vs Shibata should be excellent even though I'm fully expecting a Shibata loss. I think Ibushi might beat Makabe, but I'm not too excited for that match as much as I love Ibushi. Expecting more greatness from KUSHIDA and Kenny Omega. Everything else should be fine, just more of the same.
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Post by Mondai Rogue on Aug 24, 2015 4:40:34 GMT -5
CJP in NJPW...that's a surprise. Not against it though, I liked him in NXT.
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PL23
AC Slater
Posts: 101
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Post by PL23 on Aug 24, 2015 5:10:22 GMT -5
Shinsuke vs. Goto again?!
My god if Shinsuke wins... so help me god New Japan. He doesn't need that belt. Come up with something better for him to do Jado and Gedo. They're too lazy to do anything interesting with the IWGP Title though, so they'll probably just throw the IC belt back on Shinsuke, meaning they can alternate the main event of PPV's with IWGP and IC. It's just plain lazy at this point to just rely on Shinsuke's drawing power. The only way this doesn't suck is if post WrestleKingdom we get Okada vs. Shinsuke in a unification match.
Naito vs Shibata could be a fantastic match though. They should be doing so much more with Shibata. Remember Meiyu-Tag?
Apart from that, those cards are dreadful. So sick of them doing the briefcase thing, and what's even worse is they just use it to fill up cards until the Dome. This is New Japan Pro-Wrestling, not WWE. Why can't they logically book a G1 winner, have him challenge and win/lose and then also build a WrestleKingdom challenger? Ibushi also shouldn't be anywhere near the NEVER title. He's way above winning it, and way above just being a defence for Makabe.
Okada/Styles rematch.... hooray.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Aug 24, 2015 7:12:59 GMT -5
Why do they have to keep Nakamura in The IC Scene, enough already, he doesn't need to be near it for a while and he certainly doesn't need to win it again. Have him and Ishii be a team and go after the tag belts or something.
Tanahashi spent the entire Spring feuding with Yano of all people, if The Ace of NJPW can put up with that, why can't Nakamura just be in a feud as well?
I would've brought back Elgin in to challenge for it, or Anderson since he beat Goto in The G1 as well. A number of guys could've challenged for it instead. Unless this ends with Goto victorious and Shibata coming out and challenging and setting up a match at WK10, no thanks.
And of all guys, why on Earth did they go with CJ Parker? And what kind of name is Juice Robinson? It's up there with Big Daddy Yum Yum
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Post by berlynwright on Aug 24, 2015 8:03:36 GMT -5
Okada/Styles have progressive chemistry. When they first faced, it was meh, Yokohama match was Ok, not great. After that they only had great matches with a MOTYC at Dominion. Hoping for another great match at KOPW, but can't see Styles winning, especially with Tanahashi with the briefacse. Nakamura holding it would have atleaset casted a doubt on the outcome
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Aug 24, 2015 14:23:04 GMT -5
Can anyone actually name the last feud Nakamura had that didn't involve The IC belt?
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PL23
AC Slater
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Post by PL23 on Aug 24, 2015 14:40:52 GMT -5
When he returned as Swagsuke, won the 2011 G1 and challenged Tana (and wrongfully lost). That's the last thing he's done really that didn't involve the IC Title in some way. Every other feud (such as Suzuki-gun) has at least included an IC defence. When he hasn't held it, he's been chasing to get it back.
So only four years.
Ironically enough, during which time we've endured Tana, Okada, AJ, Okada, AJ, Tana ad nauseum.
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Post by berlynwright on Aug 24, 2015 14:47:22 GMT -5
AJ Styles was in observer radio few mins ago.
Here's some notes from it
* AJ feels last year's G1 was lot more relaxing than this year's. He had lot of days of rest in between * He feels the Tanahashi match was probably the best match he's ever had based on crowd reactions * The IWGP title match vs Okada at Dominion was put together by him and Okada with minimal supervision by Gedo * AJ agrees with Alvarez that Red Shoes is the best ref who gets little things/reactions right * Tanahashi on a Japanese podcast called AJ best wrestler in the world, AJ feels psychology in Japan have helped him and doesn't rely on moves * AJ doesn't think he will wrestle in his 50s, although he thinks he's having some of best matches of his career * AJ praises Tanahashi and calls him the MVP for G1 * Toru Yano suggested AJ to do a minute segment with Sakuraba at the tag match since it would pop the crowd * AJ says he mixed up his wrestling style against different opponents at G1. He felt the Yano match was great * AJ says he was hoping for Ishii to be in his block in G1. Meltzer & Alvarez call it a dream match * AJ says Tanahashi & Liger are locker room leaders in NJPW * AJ says he belongs to NJPW now but never say never if he gets an offer he can't refuse in WWE/NXT to be closer at home * AJ says he's looking forward to a babyface run * AJ says he didn't know why he got a main event push right out of gate, he feels someone at the back is a fan of him and grateful for the opportunity * AJ says he didn't know who was winning G1, he just went out with what was given to him * He wasn't surprised with Tanahashi winning, he was happy because Tanahashi/Okada is a year long story * AJ says leaving TNA was the best thing happened to him. He buries TNA he doesn't know where he will be now if it wasn't for his decision * He feels the matches should be graded on fans reaction not on your reaction * He only does 3 big tours in a year - invasion attack, g1 and g1 tag * He's not a fan of 6 man tags, it's frustrating for him since he's a singles wrestler and had to rely on Young Bucks to come up with spots * He's expecting to stop when 42 years old (20th year in business) * He wants to open his own Dojo when it's over and wants to do business with NJPW
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Aug 24, 2015 14:51:39 GMT -5
When he returned as Swagsuke, won the 2011 G1 and challenged Tana (and wrongfully lost). That's the last thing he's done really that didn't involve the IC Title in some way. Every other feud (such as Suzuki-gun) has at least included an IC defence. When he hasn't held it, he's been chasing to get it back. So only four years. Ironically enough, during which time we've endured Tana, Okada, AJ, Okada, AJ, Tana ad nauseum. Jebus, and we give Cena flack
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MrBRulzOK
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Post by MrBRulzOK on Aug 24, 2015 22:27:13 GMT -5
So glad CJ Parker isn't actually retiring, and that he's getting a chance here. Hopefully the guy really flourishes and improves while he's touring down there. He's still young so I think chances are he could end up alot better down the road.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Aug 26, 2015 6:30:07 GMT -5
Remember when I said about staying on the NJPW bandwagon during the good and the eventual bad? Well, we have hit the bad(which isn't that bad but not balls out great like Wrestle Kingdom and the months after). The same things we criticized WWE for happens in New Japan. Lack of new faces in the main event. Good to great matches steeped with deja vu. Once hot acts now without any real purpose. Divisions that need new blood. I mentioned that NJPW was building towards a Tana/Okada rematch for next year's Wrestle Kingdom since they felt that was there money match and here we are. The expanded ROH deal should supply both companies with new blood. But NJPW needs to open their doors to puroresu acts normally wouldn't fit into the current landscape but tearing it up in elsewhere like Zack Sabre Jr, Yankee Two Kenju, and Daisuke Sekimoto. They did it with Ibushi and it paid off.
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PL23
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Post by PL23 on Aug 26, 2015 14:51:49 GMT -5
Honestly, I don't think you can compare this 'bad' to WWE. Whilst some of the decisions leave you scratching your head, they're still largely logical (Tana/Okada for instance). I don't know what WWE is. I can still watch a New Japan card knowing I'm seeing the best in-ring wrestling in the world. The thing is that some of the issues you've highlighted existed long before WrestleKingdom 9. I remember saying several years ago that Tana needed to move away from the IWGP Title and move down the card for a bit. He never did. The Jr. division hasn't been a division since Devitt's ascent to the title in 2010.
Zack Sabre Jr. would be an interesting addition to the 'Jr. Division', but Sekimoto is VERY small. I know it's less of a big deal in Japan than it was 15 years ago, but still, Sekimoto is really, really small. I've never been a huge fan either. The heavyweight roster is stacked enough as it is, they just need to do some different things with it for once. For example, I have no idea why they never do anything interesting with Sakuraba.
Also, whilst ZSJ would be interesting, New Japan really need to focus on developing some non-gaijin wrestlers in the Jr. division. That's literally all it is bar Kushida and the legends. I still find it difficult to understand why Fujita "Jr." Hayato from Michinoku Pro never made it to New Japan. Sure he's loyal to M-Pro, but so was Ibushi to DDT. It could have worked out. He was Kanemoto mk.2
This is largely the thing with the bandwagon of New Japan though. So many people (it's not their fault) think that 'this' is New Japan, when in fact, it's a complete departure from the traditions of puroresu and New Japan Pro-Wrestling. Riki Choshu wouldn't have booked Okada this way in a million years. The reason why, is because long term, it's damaging.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Aug 26, 2015 21:17:59 GMT -5
Honestly, I don't think you can compare this 'bad' to WWE. Whilst some of the decisions leave you scratching your head, they're still largely logical (Tana/Okada for instance). I don't know what WWE is. I can still watch a New Japan card knowing I'm seeing the best in-ring wrestling in the world. The thing is that some of the issues you've highlighted existed long before WrestleKingdom 9. I remember saying several years ago that Tana needed to move away from the IWGP Title and move down the card for a bit. He never did. The Jr. division hasn't been a division since Devitt's ascent to the title in 2010. Zack Sabre Jr. would be an interesting addition to the 'Jr. Division', but Sekimoto is VERY small. I know it's less of a big deal in Japan than it was 15 years ago, but still, Sekimoto is really, really small. I've never been a huge fan either. The heavyweight roster is stacked enough as it is, they just need to do some different things with it for once. For example, I have no idea why they never do anything interesting with Sakuraba. Also, whilst ZSJ would be interesting, New Japan really need to focus on developing some non-gaijin wrestlers in the Jr. division. That's literally all it is bar Kushida and the legends. I still find it difficult to understand why Fujita "Jr." Hayato from Michinoku Pro never made it to New Japan. Sure he's loyal to M-Pro, but so was Ibushi to DDT. It could have worked out. He was Kanemoto mk.2 This is largely the thing with the bandwagon of New Japan though. So many people (it's not their fault) think that 'this' is New Japan, when in fact, it's a complete departure from the traditions of puroresu and New Japan Pro-Wrestling. Riki Choshu wouldn't have booked Okada this way in a million years. The reason why, is because long term, it's damaging. Logical moves doesn't make NJPW immune from stagnation. Right now, the glass ceiling is keeping a number of acts from breaking out. Goto should be in the same tier as Tana, Swagsuke, and Okada but years of booking him as a choker artist killed that. Same for Naito who I hope his heel turn helps him break through. The Junior division suffers because the bookers are apparently too stubborn to hire non-NJPW Japanese wrestlers to beef up the ranks. I mentioned ZSJ because of the NOAH/NJPW alliance and he would bring back the aura lost since Devitt left and Ibushi moved up in weight. They have Kamaitachi in CMLL tearing it up in a feud with Dragon Lee. Why not bring him back along with some CMLL guys since Mascara Dorada is leaving in a couple of months? All Japan worked out a deal with DDT to have Team DRIFT on their cards. Instead of outsourcing the Juniors to gaijins, open up relations to fellow puroresu companies. Sekimoto is no smaller than Makabe or Ishii. He's not that much shorter than Kensuke Sasaki. I get Japan likes their heavyweights to be a certain size but other than height, he's a heavyweight. Even then, there are indy heavyweights who would fit the criteria. Shuji Ishikawa is a Big Japan wrestler who is currently works in All Japan and about to get a Triple Crown shot. New Japan got a working deal with WXW Germany. Why not bring in Big Daddy Walter or Tommy End for a stint? New Japan is how it is booking wise due to the bookers and current owner are WWE fans. The Choshu method eventually brought down the box office when the main eventers start to age out and favoritism kept future up and comers down. The Inoki era nearly killed the company with them foolishly sending their stars to get slaughtered by Cro Cop and other MMA folks. Jado/Gedo booking brought them from the edge and back in the black. Not that many companies still go full traditional due to the current purosesu fan wants something more than just King's Road.
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Post by Starshine on Aug 26, 2015 21:20:37 GMT -5
Does Tanahashi/Okada even need to be for the title right now? It's feels like it's more about Okada proving a point than holding the belt. Hell, who knows, at this point they might even put IC belt back on Nakamura too. I'm not surprised.
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PL23
AC Slater
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Post by PL23 on Aug 28, 2015 14:31:08 GMT -5
Logical moves doesn't make NJPW immune from stagnation. Right now, the glass ceiling is keeping a number of acts from breaking out. Goto should be in the same tier as Tana, Swagsuke, and Okada but years of booking him as a choker artist killed that. Same for Naito who I hope his heel turn helps him break through. The Junior division suffers because the bookers are apparently too stubborn to hire non-NJPW Japanese wrestlers to beef up the ranks. I mentioned ZSJ because of the NOAH/NJPW alliance and he would bring back the aura lost since Devitt left and Ibushi moved up in weight. They have Kamaitachi in CMLL tearing it up in a feud with Dragon Lee. Why not bring him back along with some CMLL guys since Mascara Dorada is leaving in a couple of months? All Japan worked out a deal with DDT to have Team DRIFT on their cards. Instead of outsourcing the Juniors to gaijins, open up relations to fellow puroresu companies. Sekimoto is no smaller than Makabe or Ishii. He's not that much shorter than Kensuke Sasaki. I get Japan likes their heavyweights to be a certain size but other than height, he's a heavyweight. Even then, there are indy heavyweights who would fit the criteria. Shuji Ishikawa is a Big Japan wrestler who is currently works in All Japan and about to get a Triple Crown shot. New Japan got a working deal with WXW Germany. Why not bring in Big Daddy Walter or Tommy End for a stint? New Japan is how it is booking wise due to the bookers and current owner are WWE fans. The Choshu method eventually brought down the box office when the main eventers start to age out and favoritism kept future up and comers down. The Inoki era nearly killed the company with them foolishly sending their stars to get slaughtered by Cro Cop and other MMA folks. Jado/Gedo booking brought them from the edge and back in the black. Not that many companies still go full traditional due to the current purosesu fan wants something more than just King's Road. I agree on Goto that years of shocking booking and Okada's superpush have really got in his way, but Naito's status really is nothing to do with any glass ceiling. Naito is just below the level right now that Okada should be at. Naito hasn't been booked well, and the fans completely rejected his push following his G1 win. His status isn't because of a glass ceiling (this isn't WWE) but simply because of shitty booking that turned the fans against Mutoh Mk.2, and walking talking charisma. Thing is, New Japan have never and will never rely on outsiders when business is good (not Inoki's reign of death). They instead use them as nice additions to major cards, and to help draw. I really like ZSJ and he's the best technical wrestler I've seen since Danielson's peak, but there's no way he can replace Devitt or Ibushi. That took years of good booking, particularly with Devitt, and ZSJ just isn't the 'ace' of the Jr. division, because he won't be seen as a home wrestler in the same way Devitt was. However, I can't agree more with the fact that New Japan should be working more with the other companies. It will help business in general, and the cross promotion in Japan has always made things more interesting. Plus New Japan has always been about 'Strong Style is the Strongest' so the clash of styles has always worked. The issue is that none of the other companies are anywhere near relevant in comparison to New Japan. In terms of non-New Japan Japanese Jr.'s, I still fail to see why Fujita "Jr." Hayato was never brought in long term. Maybe it's his relationship with Kanemoto, but he screamed out New Japan. New Japan crowds loved him too. Jado and Gedo didn't bring New Japan back from the edge, Choshu did that. Choshu was the one who booked Tanahashi's ascent, effectively saving the company by getting him over. New Japan was in tatters after Inoki's reign of terror, and were drawing worse in Tokyo than Pro-Wrestling NOAH. I also really don't think it's possible to criticise Choshu's booking in the 90's. The main thing you can criticise him for is killing the Jr. division with the push of Liger as a heavy in 2000. Jado and Gedo simply continued Choshu's good work, and then their ideas have been CHAOS, Okada and Bullet Club. You can't really say Choshu brought down the box office, when he booked the most successful period in Japanese wrestling history.
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Fundertaker
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Post by Fundertaker on Aug 28, 2015 15:21:22 GMT -5
And killing any chance Otani ever had of being a credible heavyweight in New Japan, as well.
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Post by Raskovnik on Aug 28, 2015 17:37:53 GMT -5
I don't like living in a world where Goto should be Hashimoto Mk. 2, IMO, but has a ceiling of the IC title at best and is viewed as lucky to hold that. He's super underrated even by a lot of fans. I'm also a huge, unabashed, unashamed fan of both Meiyu Tag guys though, so of course I'm biased. I can understand why they're a bit hesitant to do anything of note with Shibata but there's no excuse for Goto and honestly I don't think there's much of an argument for Shibata not doing more and being more than he is. The man is over is f***, putting in some awesome work and he has been for a while. He's firmly settled into this great loner character and he's money in that role. I'm not asking for them to make him THE guy or anything but surely he should be more than what he is. He's something special, I think. No one else has that brand of charisma or killer aura that he's got. I do hope this program with heel Naito makes Naito for real this time, at least, because Naito is another dude who I think people have been sleeping on for a long time until the revelation that has been his heel turn made them take notice. His past booking certainly didn't do him any favors in that regard, though. It does seem like we're in a bit of a down period but I do hope the landscape is at least somewhat different after WK10. Maybe we can have that CHAOS implosion I've been asking for forever, since I love Okada vs Nakamura, or maybe even LOS INGOBERNABLES vs CHAOS. There's plenty of cool shit they COULD do.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Aug 31, 2015 16:53:44 GMT -5
I don't like living in a world where Goto should be Hashimoto Mk. 2, IMO, but has a ceiling of the IC title at best and is viewed as lucky to hold that. He's super underrated even by a lot of fans. I'm also a huge, unabashed, unashamed fan of both Meiyu Tag guys though, so of course I'm biased. I can understand why they're a bit hesitant to do anything of note with Shibata but there's no excuse for Goto and honestly I don't think there's much of an argument for Shibata not doing more and being more than he is. The man is over is f***, putting in some awesome work and he has been for a while. He's firmly settled into this great loner character and he's money in that role. I'm not asking for them to make him THE guy or anything but surely he should be more than what he is. He's something special, I think. No one else has that brand of charisma or killer aura that he's got. I do hope this program with heel Naito makes Naito for real this time, at least, because Naito is another dude who I think people have been sleeping on for a long time until the revelation that has been his heel turn made them take notice. His past booking certainly didn't do him any favors in that regard, though. It does seem like we're in a bit of a down period but I do hope the landscape is at least somewhat different after WK10. Maybe we can have that CHAOS implosion I've been asking for forever, since I love Okada vs Nakamura, or maybe even LOS INGOBERNABLES vs CHAOS. There's plenty of cool shit they COULD do. Instead we going to get more Bullet Club and them increasing their numbers even more. And more NWA representatives to come over to lose titles to NJPW's elder statesmen.
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