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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Oct 22, 2013 19:12:59 GMT -5
Sure, it was a promo to get heel heat, but I've got the feeling Triple H chose those particular three names to use because they're guys who've been coming and going at their convenience (even Edge, since he declined to sign a Legends contract) instead of devoting their time exclusively to THIS BUSINESS. Booker T, for instance, is on a similar level, but he's under WWE contract doing whatever they tell him, so they're not going to harp on the competent-but-unspectacular nature of his career on live TV.
And it's not like Hunter's above bringing bizarre personal grudges into his public comments, considering how often he manages to squeeze into interviews one of his constant random mentions of how Goldberg has no heart and can't draw and sucks in the ring. Like, YEARS after the dude has done anything in pro wrestling at all.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Oct 22, 2013 19:25:27 GMT -5
Sure, it was a promo to get heel heat, but I've got the feeling Triple H chose those particular three names to use because they're guys who've been coming and going at their convenience (even Edge, since he declined to sign a Legends contract) instead of devoting their time exclusively to THIS BUSINESS. Booker T, for instance, is on a similar level, but he's under WWE contract doing whatever they tell him, so they're not going to harp on the competent-but-unspectacular nature of his career on live TV. And it's not like Hunter's above bringing bizarre personal grudges into his public comments, considering how often he manages to squeeze into interviews one of his constant random mentions of how Goldberg has no heart and can't draw and sucks in the ring. Like, YEARS after the dude has done anything in pro wrestling at all. If you're talking about the Tough Enough promo, the Goldberg thing made perfect sense. He was talking to a bunch of reality-stars about coming into an industry he literally destroyed his body for, about desire. Goldberg wasn't in love with wrestling like other stars, and lets be honest, he knows shit-all about psychology, so HHH's criticisms are fair in my book. And those three names were used because they're all smark favorites and have been for years, besides Edge's face run after returning from injury. It was a wonderful way to get the pro-Bryan crowd riled up, but it may not get people to buy the show. Which makes it a crappy promo.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 19:27:38 GMT -5
Triple H accomplishes half of what a heel is supposed to when he works the smarks, or the writers think he does, whatever. He makes people want to see him lose. This is step one. Unofrtuantely, step two, get his ass kicked, is something that doesn't happen. If I spot anyone THAT Warrior match, and the Batista and Cena feuds and give a start time of the day he joined DX, can anyone find me a feud that, as a heel, he wound up with his ass handed to him and vanquished at the end? The whole "Who ran over Stone Cold" mess. He was dropped 75 feet from a forklift, can't be more defeated than that. Dude was on Raw the next night with a bandage on his head, right?
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Oct 22, 2013 19:31:20 GMT -5
The whole "Who ran over Stone Cold" mess. He was dropped 75 feet from a forklift, can't be more defeated than that. Dude was on Raw the next night with a bandage on his head, right? Yeah, but he was still defeated by the hero.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Oct 22, 2013 19:38:34 GMT -5
What about Taker?
The first (well second... I don't remember much about the ABA story other than Taker won) Wrestlemania victory is debatable because Taker was the one carted off but Taker soundly beat him in the cell.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Oct 22, 2013 19:40:25 GMT -5
If you're talking about the Tough Enough promo Not exclusively, that's only one of the many Triple H cracks at Goldberg. I think the most memorable one, for me, was an interview with Shawn and Hunter not long after HBK's retirement, sort of a retrospective on both guys' careers, and Michaels says something about working with all sorts of guys, and Triple H interjects "Yeah, sometimes you're stuck having to carry a guy who can't work at all, LIKE GOLDBERG" and it was just so hilariously random and out of nowhere, like Hunter was just waiting all day to get a chance to tell someone how terrible Goldberg is. And this is in 2010.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Oct 22, 2013 19:43:35 GMT -5
If you're talking about the Tough Enough promo Not exclusively, that's only one of the many Triple H cracks at Goldberg. I think the most memorable one, for me, was an interview with Shawn and Hunter not long after HBK's retirement, sort of a retrospective on both guys' careers, and Michaels says something about working with all sorts of guys, and Triple H interjects "Yeah, sometimes you're stuck having to carry a guy who can't work at all, LIKE GOLDBERG" and it was just so hilariously random and out of nowhere, like Hunter was just waiting all day to get a chance to tell someone how terrible Goldberg is. And this is in 2010. I think HHH is just peeved that someone with half the work ethic and a quarter of the ring awareness was able to get higher than him in the industry, even for only a year or two.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Oct 22, 2013 19:48:48 GMT -5
So we're saying Steve Austin wasn't actually fighting the man? All that merch was an act? my kayfabe hurts
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Oct 22, 2013 19:49:36 GMT -5
Not exclusively, that's only one of the many Triple H cracks at Goldberg. I think the most memorable one, for me, was an interview with Shawn and Hunter not long after HBK's retirement, sort of a retrospective on both guys' careers, and Michaels says something about working with all sorts of guys, and Triple H interjects "Yeah, sometimes you're stuck having to carry a guy who can't work at all, LIKE GOLDBERG" and it was just so hilariously random and out of nowhere, like Hunter was just waiting all day to get a chance to tell someone how terrible Goldberg is. And this is in 2010. I think HHH is just peeved that someone with half the work ethic and a quarter of the ring awareness was able to get higher than him in the industry, even for only a year or two. It's almost as if Goldberg is extraordinarily charismatic and Triple H, for all his work ethic, is incapable of amounting to more than a passably above-average talent. A B+, if you will. Salieri took it pretty badly too. At least in fiction.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Oct 22, 2013 19:51:22 GMT -5
I think HHH is just peeved that someone with half the work ethic and a quarter of the ring awareness was able to get higher than him in the industry, even for only a year or two. It's almost as if Goldberg is extraordinarily charismatic and Triple H, for all his work ethic, is incapable of amounting to more than a passably above-average talent. A B+, if you will. Salieri took it pretty badly too. At least in fiction. Comparing Goldberg to Mozart offends me personally. But HHH is one of the all time greats, he just has a ginormous ego.
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mizerable
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You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Oct 22, 2013 19:52:13 GMT -5
There's a lot of people who weren't "passionate" about the business. How do you even measure passion? Do you have to come into the Gorilla position crying like a baby after every match? So I guess you aren't passionate if you don't go out there for 30 years and bust your ass. Goldberg was never a great wrestler, but I don't ever recall him giving less than 100% in the ring. Intensity goes a long ways, which is why a lot of people liked him. I did not.
Heenan even stated if you're in this business for anything other than money, then you're an idiot.
Goldberg, whether he was passionate or not, had a lot more fans during the peak of his career than Triple H did. At the end of the day, all the matters is the support you get.
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Shark
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Post by Shark on Oct 22, 2013 19:56:22 GMT -5
I think one of the more insulting things about Meltzer is that he acts like guys like Edge and Jericho and RVD, guys who have been around this business for so many decades are going to be upset by something a heel says in an angle. It's like he thinks these guys are going to see it and think Triple H is legit shooting and they'll take something said for the purposes of an angle seriously.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Oct 22, 2013 19:57:31 GMT -5
There's a lot of people who weren't "passionate" about the business. How do you even measure passion? Do you have to come into the Gorilla position crying like a baby after every match? So I guess you aren't passionate if you don't go out there for 30 years and bust your ass. Goldberg was never a great wrestler, but I don't ever recall him giving less than 100% in the ring. Intensity goes a long ways, which is why a lot of people liked him. I did not. Heenan even stated if you're in this business for anything other than money, then you're an idiot. Goldberg, whether he was passionate or not, had a lot more fans during the peak of his career than Triple H did. At the end of the day, all the matters is the support you get. No matter how you cut it, pro wrestling is a performance art. Its obvious through people's work that caring about what you do matters. Goldberg looked like he had intensity in-ring because he was beating the shit out of people. If MMA was big back then, that's what he would have gone into, not wrestling. And yeah, Goldberg had more fans because he was pushed as the number one face in the number one promotion for a sustained period of time, something HHH never was.
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mizerable
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You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Oct 22, 2013 20:07:29 GMT -5
No matter how you cut it, pro wrestling is a performance art. Its obvious through people's work that caring about what you do matters. Goldberg looked like he had intensity in-ring because he was beating the shit out of people. If MMA was big back then, that's what he would have gone into, not wrestling. And yeah, Goldberg had more fans because he was pushed as the number one face in the number one promotion for a sustained period of time, something HHH never was. I don't get what you're trying to say. Are you saying we were deceived by his intensity? Because wrestling is performance art and he was obviously selling people on his matches. Goldberg wasn't the number one face right away, but he was getting over. Count that as being undefeated or WCW piping in crowd noise, whatever. But he had to be doing more than that, otherwise people would have caught on. He was a top 5 name during the Monday Night Wars, which is extremely impressive. Again, I don't know how someone measures passion, and I never liked him. But I'm not going to sit here and moan about how he left on his own accord and only wrestled for a few years.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Oct 22, 2013 20:10:40 GMT -5
No matter how you cut it, pro wrestling is a performance art. Its obvious through people's work that caring about what you do matters. Goldberg looked like he had intensity in-ring because he was beating the shit out of people. If MMA was big back then, that's what he would have gone into, not wrestling. And yeah, Goldberg had more fans because he was pushed as the number one face in the number one promotion for a sustained period of time, something HHH never was. I don't get what you're trying to say. Are you saying we were deceived by his intensity? Because wrestling is performance art and he was obviously selling people on his matches. Goldberg wasn't the number one face right away, but he was getting over. Count that as being undefeated or WCW piping in crowd noise, whatever. But he had to be doing more than that, otherwise people would have caught on. He was a top 5 name during the Monday Night Wars, which is extremely impressive. Again, I don't know how someone measures passion, and I never liked him. But I'm not going to sit here and moan about how he left on his own accord and only wrestled for a few years. I don't blame Goldberg for getting out while he did, the wrestling business is one of the toughest in entertainment and he got out with his body intact and sane. I'm saying his intensity, moveset wise, was because he was literally beating the shit out of people. He was great at being the pissed off badass, because that's who he really is. I just see where HHH is coming from when he bitches about Goldberg's impact, as someone who wants to be a wrestler.
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mizerable
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Post by mizerable on Oct 22, 2013 20:17:20 GMT -5
I don't blame Goldberg for getting out while he did, the wrestling business is one of the toughest in entertainment and he got out with his body intact and sane. I'm saying his intensity, moveset wise, was because he was literally beating the shit out of people. He was great at being the pissed off badass, because that's who he really is. I just see where HHH is coming from when he bitches about Goldberg's impact, as someone who wants to be a wrestler. Then Triple H should be pissed off at the front office, not Goldberg. The same with people who whined about Ultimate Warrior's matches. He doesn't have any control over that. Wrestlers hating on other wrestlers for the personalities they display in the ring? Jesus...this thread really came full circle!!
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Oct 22, 2013 20:18:51 GMT -5
Triple H accomplishes half of what a heel is supposed to when he works the smarks, or the writers think he does, whatever. He makes people want to see him lose. This is step one. Unofrtuantely, step two, get his ass kicked, is something that doesn't happen. If I spot anyone THAT Warrior match, and the Batista and Cena feuds and give a start time of the day he joined DX, can anyone find me a feud that, as a heel, he wound up with his ass handed to him and vanquished at the end? The whole "Who ran over Stone Cold" mess. He was dropped 75 feet from a forklift, can't be more defeated than that. Yes, but that's Stone Cold Steve Austin, who was already the top guy for years. How often does HHH put over anyone who actually needs it, or someone comes out better than they did looking in just by virtue of being able to hang with HHH?
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Oct 22, 2013 20:22:05 GMT -5
I don't blame Goldberg for getting out while he did, the wrestling business is one of the toughest in entertainment and he got out with his body intact and sane. I'm saying his intensity, moveset wise, was because he was literally beating the shit out of people. He was great at being the pissed off badass, because that's who he really is. I just see where HHH is coming from when he bitches about Goldberg's impact, as someone who wants to be a wrestler. Then Triple H should be pissed off at the front office, not Goldberg. The same with people who whined about Ultimate Warrior's matches. He doesn't have any control over that. Wrestlers hating on other wrestlers for the personalities they display in the ring? Jesus...this thread really came full circle!! To be fair, Goldberg accosted HHH at an autograph signing the two were at, and pretty much threatened him. Goldberg sort of thinks he's the shit because no one besides Regal ever stood up to him and brought him down a peg. Look at the stories Jericho tells in his first book, the man was green as gooseshit and thought he could have the stroke Hogan did.
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xxshoyuweeniexx
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Oct 22, 2013 20:23:31 GMT -5
The whole "Who ran over Stone Cold" mess. He was dropped 75 feet from a forklift, can't be more defeated than that. Yes, but that's Stone Cold Steve Austin, who was already the top guy for years. How often does HHH put over anyone who actually needs it, or someone comes out better than they did looking in just by virtue of being able to hang with HHH? Batista. I don't count the half assed Cena deal where he said he couldn't wrestle and Cena still gave him a verbal BJ. 1 guy in what, 15 years?
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mizerable
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Post by mizerable on Oct 22, 2013 20:26:23 GMT -5
[ To be fair, Goldberg accosted HHH at an autograph signing the two were at, and pretty much threatened him. Goldberg sort of thinks he's the shit because no one besides Regal ever stood up to him and brought him down a peg. Look at the stories Jericho tells in his first book, the man was green as gooseshit and thought he could have the stroke Hogan did. But that has nothing to do with what he represents in the ring. Saying Goldberg is a childish dick is one thing...saying he has no passion, well that's just stupid of Triple H to do.
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