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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2013 17:35:26 GMT -5
Austin was right to play hardball--but I think leaving was a little much. The only upside to Brock beating Austin with no-build would be to establish Lesnar as unstoppable. However, this could have been done without running a big money match for free. It would not even have had an opportunity to pop a rating, because there apparently would have been no build. So we can add Austin to the list of wrestlers that seriously thought Vince might actually consider murdering them: The Vince Murder ListBret "The Hitman" Hart "Stone Cold" Steve Austin "I'm going to kill them with a lethal dose... of poison!"
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Post by kamero00 on Dec 22, 2013 17:42:51 GMT -5
I kind of agree with Austin on the whole Lesnar thing. Brock Lesnar vs. Stone Cold built up to be a PPV match would've been awesome. It would've been dumb if Lesnar beat him clean on an episode of Raw and that'd be it. Hell, people probably would've been mad and maybe that would've hurt Lesnar's uber-popularity. Lesnar beat Hogan with a bear hug (Brock Lock) just a few weeks later on an un-advertised Smackdown match. Not sure what their obsession was, when they had Lesnar go over on a ton of people in un-advertised TV matches.
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Dec 22, 2013 17:45:18 GMT -5
I kind of agree with Austin on the whole Lesnar thing. Brock Lesnar vs. Stone Cold built up to be a PPV match would've been awesome. It would've been dumb if Lesnar beat him clean on an episode of Raw and that'd be it. Hell, people probably would've been mad and maybe that would've hurt Lesnar's uber-popularity. Lesnar beat Hogan with a bear hug (Brock Lock) just a few weeks later on an un-advertised Smackdown match. Not sure what their obsession was, when they had Lesnar go over on a ton of people in un-advertised TV matches. Props to Hogan for that too, though. He made Lesnar look like a million bucks.
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Dec 22, 2013 18:11:24 GMT -5
Austin sure was living the DTA gimmick then, wasn't he? He meets with Vince on the 25th story of a building, and is pretty sure it's all a trap and he's going to get pushed through the plate glass window and die. Haha, seriously, does vince have some bodies piled up somewhere we don't know about?
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by mrjl on Dec 22, 2013 18:16:43 GMT -5
I kind of agree with Austin on the whole Lesnar thing. Brock Lesnar vs. Stone Cold built up to be a PPV match would've been awesome. It would've been dumb if Lesnar beat him clean on an episode of Raw and that'd be it. Hell, people probably would've been mad and maybe that would've hurt Lesnar's uber-popularity. Lesnar beat Hogan with a bear hug (Brock Lock) just a few weeks later on an un-advertised Smackdown match. Not sure what their obsession was, when they had Lesnar go over on a ton of people in un-advertised TV matches. they were showing Brock was a monster. And also Hogan was going out soon after, so make use of the opportunity while it exists.
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Professor Chaos
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Post by Professor Chaos on Dec 22, 2013 21:13:22 GMT -5
It might be for the best he did walk out. He only wrestled 2 matches after coming back 8 months later so at that point he might've been even more vulnerable and Brock could've paralyzed him or something.
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Crimson
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Post by Crimson on Dec 22, 2013 21:37:29 GMT -5
I kind of agree with Austin on the whole Lesnar thing. Brock Lesnar vs. Stone Cold built up to be a PPV match would've been awesome. It would've been dumb if Lesnar beat him clean on an episode of Raw and that'd be it. Hell, people probably would've been mad and maybe that would've hurt Lesnar's uber-popularity. Lesnar beat Hogan with a bear hug (Brock Lock) just a few weeks later on an un-advertised Smackdown match. Not sure what their obsession was, when they had Lesnar go over on a ton of people in un-advertised TV matches. They caught lightning in a bottle with Lesnar; there really hasn't been anyone with his size, speed, and athleticism in the company. So they were trying to do everything possible to make him a special attraction. That mean giving away many free-for-tv matches.
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mizerable
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Post by mizerable on Dec 22, 2013 22:42:10 GMT -5
WWE's reasoning is stupid. It would have made more sense to do the one and done with Triple H at the time, even if he was the heel champion, which is another good way to play his departure to Smackdown up. Of course, I guarantee WWE wouldn't let their golden boy at the time do the job, even if he wasn't champ. It's not like Lesnar didn't face heels during his monster push anyways. Stone Cold did have a point, but in the end...he should have just done it, so we didn't have to endure the shameless smear campaign that followed. WWE probably still use this as an example to anyone that "you're never too big to be brought down", in case anyone ever questions why they're doing what they're doing. The Vince Murder ListBret "The Hitman" Hart "Stone Cold" Steve Austin What's funny is when Bret and Vince met after the Owen incident...Vince was thinking the same thing, hence why he wore a wire. Kind of a weird conversation anyways. In a nutshell; Vince: "I'm so sorry about what happened to Owen." Bret: "It's terrible. I was wondering if I could get my tape library." Vince: "Uhhh...sure?"
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by mrjl on Dec 22, 2013 22:52:03 GMT -5
WWE's reasoning is stupid. It would have made more sense to do the one and done with Triple H at the time, even if he was the heel champion, which is another good way to play his departure to Smackdown up. Of course, I guarantee WWE wouldn't let their golden boy at the time do the job, even if he wasn't champ. It's not like Lesnar didn't face heels during his monster push anyways. Stone Cold did have a point, but in the end...he should have just done it, so we didn't have to endure the shameless smear campaign that followed. WWE probably still use this as an example to anyone that "you're never too big to be brought down", in case anyone ever questions why they're doing what they're doing. at that point Trips was a face and I think no longer champion. but also what no one is mentioning here, why it would have been a one off with no story and no follow up was it was going to be a KoTR qualifying match
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Dec 22, 2013 23:26:46 GMT -5
Lesnar beat Hogan with a bear hug (Brock Lock) just a few weeks later on an un-advertised Smackdown match. Not sure what their obsession was, when they had Lesnar go over on a ton of people in un-advertised TV matches. Props to Hogan for that too, though. He made Lesnar look like a million bucks. I wonder if Hogan would've still done it if not for the hatchet job Vince made about Steve quitting the company.
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Dec 22, 2013 23:35:59 GMT -5
Props to Hogan for that too, though. He made Lesnar look like a million bucks. I wonder if Hogan would've still done it if not for the hatchet job Vince made about Steve quitting the company. Hogan didn't seem to have a problem doing business.
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Post by cabbageboy on Dec 22, 2013 23:37:38 GMT -5
Austin's revisionist history here is hilarious. First off, WWE was not doing massive business in 2002. I went to a house show that was headlined by one of those goofy Austin/Flair/Big Show cage match debacles and can assure everyone the building was nowhere near sold out. Also, here's a newsflash: Austin wasn't remotely the top guy by mid 2002, hence Vince had no qualms about jobbing him to Brock with zero fanfare. Austin SUCKED in 2002. As in nothing he did had the slightest redeeming value. His promos sucked and were full of the "What" crap that wrecked his persona. His PPV matches were all dreadful. Check out him vs. Jericho to see a textbook example of a guy refusing to even bother to have a good match and put someone over. Or watch his horrid outing vs. Taker from Backlash. By mid 2002 I'd say Rock, Hogan, HHH, and Taker were all above Austin in Vince's mind. If Austin had stayed he would have just been doing midcard feuds with Eddie or Benoit.
Second, some discussion of the whole Lesnar push. There is nothing, and I mean nothing more laughable to me than people going revisionist about Lesnar. As someone who was watching in 2002 and following the internet as well, I can state with some certainty that very few people cared about Brock, nor did anyone really want to see him pushed to the main event. He really wasn't very over. In truth, his KOTR win mostly served to sabotage Van Dam's momentum since RVD was clearly the more over and ready to main event circa 2002. The better scenario would have been for RVD to win KOTR, Brock wins the IC from him at the next PPV (instead of a goofy DQ), and RVD goes to SS anyway vs. either Rock/Taker.
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Post by blackmegaman on Dec 22, 2013 23:43:51 GMT -5
While I do agree with Austin's reasoning...I can't help but think if Cena somehow found himself in the same situation and did the same thing today the fans wouldn't be as understanding.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 23, 2013 0:14:33 GMT -5
It's not really spin if it's true. He did take his ball and go home, he admitted as much in different words. He was right that they shouldn't have had him losing on a random Raw to Brock, but his own story is exactly that he took his ball and went home and that he ignored their attempts to contact him on the flight there. You don't really get to paint yourself to be the victim of a smear campaign if what they're accusing you of is exactly what you did.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Dec 23, 2013 0:28:15 GMT -5
While I do agree with Austin's reasoning...I can't help but think if Cena somehow found himself in the same situation and did the same thing today the fans wouldn't be as understanding. If Cena didn't want to put over Mason Ryan, it'd be championed as a much-needed blow against WWE's forced, manufactured booking. If Cena didn't want to put over Sami Zayn, he'd be labelled an ungrateful prima donna with no respect for the business.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2013 0:46:47 GMT -5
While I do agree with Austin's reasoning...I can't help but think if Cena somehow found himself in the same situation and did the same thing today the fans wouldn't be as understanding. If Cena didn't want to put over Mason Ryan, it'd be championed as a much-needed blow against WWE's forced, manufactured booking. If Cena didn't want to put over Sami Zayn, he'd be labelled an ungrateful prima donna with no respect for the business. To be fair though, even your examples are two very different scenarios.
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BigBadZ
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Post by BigBadZ on Dec 23, 2013 0:54:43 GMT -5
If Cena didn't want to put over Mason Ryan, it'd be championed as a much-needed blow against WWE's forced, manufactured booking. If Cena didn't want to put over Sami Zayn, he'd be labelled an ungrateful prima donna with no respect for the business. To be fair though, even your examples are two very different scenarios. Yea, we'd want Cena publicly tarred and feathered for not putting over "The People's Choice" Mason Ryan. I know I'd grab my torch and pitchfork.
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Post by chronocross on Dec 23, 2013 1:15:43 GMT -5
I kind of agree with Austin on the whole Lesnar thing. Brock Lesnar vs. Stone Cold built up to be a PPV match would've been awesome. It would've been dumb if Lesnar beat him clean on an episode of Raw and that'd be it. Hell, people probably would've been mad and maybe that would've hurt Lesnar's uber-popularity. Lesnar beat Hogan with a bear hug (Brock Lock) just a few weeks later on an un-advertised Smackdown match. Not sure what their obsession was, when they had Lesnar go over on a ton of people in un-advertised TV matches. Actually Hogan and Lesnar had a couple of run-ins prior to that match. Hogan had goaded Lesnar into putting his #1 contenders spot at Summerslam the previous week after beating Angle by DQ. I thought the Brock Lock was that modified single crab thing he did to Benoit in 03?
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Renslayer
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every time i come around your city...
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Post by Renslayer on Dec 23, 2013 1:39:08 GMT -5
I know people always throw the hypocrite charge at people who defend Austin here, but what he's saying is completely right. His body was breaking down at that point, but if they gave the match a build to either King of the Ring or the July PPV, they would've made a good amount of money off it. How he did it was messy, but Austin had MORE than enough cache to stop any stupid ideas management had for him.
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Dec 23, 2013 4:01:27 GMT -5
I know people always throw the hypocrite charge at people who defend Austin here, but what he's saying is completely right. His body was breaking down at that point, but if they gave the match a build to either King of the Ring or the July PPV, they would've made a good amount of money off it. How he did it was messy, but Austin had MORE than enough cache to stop any stupid ideas management had for him. Giving away giant matches for free on TV always works. Remember when Hogan vs. Goldberg was given away for free and it did nothing but help WCW?
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