Has WWE pretty much become WCW?

[Deleted]

A 3 hour show each week that features long matches and little in the way of angles or skits.

None of the midcarders get storylines, the show seems to be based on one main event angle and nothing else other than that.

Good wrestling that ends up being boring because it's not serving any purpose, nor have they given us any reason to care about the matches

An inner circle of sorts who always get the main events whilst others are held down and stopped from breaking the glass ceiling

Huge emphasis put on older stars

A B-show that they've conditioned the fans not to care about, where nothing of any note happens.

3 man announce team

Nonsensical PPV endings constantly with screwy finishes.

Midcard titles that nobody cares about

Conservative booking due to fear of corporate partners and the board getting offended

Starting angles that should be a license to print money that end up getting f***ed up

A roster that is so large some people don't even get matches on the C shows






I've said it on here before, but recently I checked out some 1998/ early 99 Nitro and it reminded me so much of modern day Raw

[molson5]

Well, they're making tons of money, that would be a key difference.

And I can follow what's going on in WWE. There's too much TV but even if I fast-forward through it, the storylines are actually pretty basic and simple and generally make sense. If this was WCW, Daniel Bryan would have already joined and then turned on the authority, at least twice.

[EyeofTyr]

Yeah, pretty much.

Being a life long NWA/WCW fan that was raised in a family that was strictly on that side of the divide in pro-wrestling, it is a little unsettling how many times I have gotten deja vu from WWE in the last decade in regards to WCW.

[Hit Girl]

To a certain extent yes. It reminds me of WCW, circa 2000

[Kevin Hamilton]

They're not bleeding money though, that's pretty much the important thing.

[Phosphor Glow]

Dec 27, 2013 15:08:23 GMT -5 Kevin Hamilton said:

They're not bleeding money though, that's pretty much the important thing.

Yeah, that's very important.

Also, they're not doing anything that's insane and nonsensical. I know some would argue that point, but really, watch a lot of WCW in 99/2000, or even just READ about it. It was UNIMAGINABLY worse that what's happening right now. Complete insanity.

[Allie Kitsune]

Dec 27, 2013 15:17:39 GMT -5 Phosphor Glow said:

Dec 27, 2013 15:08:23 GMT -5 Kevin Hamilton said:

They're not bleeding money though, that's pretty much the important thing.

Yeah, that's very important.

Also, they're not doing anything that's insane and nonsensical. I know some would argue that point, but really, watch a lot of WCW in 99/2000, or even just READ about it. It was UNIMAGINABLY worse that what's happening right now. Complete insanity.

By contrast, though, at least a spiral of insanity can be unintentionally entertaining to watch.

A stagnant, staid company not going anywhere and treading water? Not so much.

[Phosphor Glow]

Dec 27, 2013 16:09:52 GMT -5 Allie Kitsune said:

Dec 27, 2013 15:17:39 GMT -5 Phosphor Glow said:

Yeah, that's very important.

Also, they're not doing anything that's insane and nonsensical. I know some would argue that point, but really, watch a lot of WCW in 99/2000, or even just READ about it. It was UNIMAGINABLY worse that what's happening right now. Complete insanity.

By contrast, though, at least a spiral of insanity can be unintentionally entertaining to watch.

A stagnant, staid company not going anywhere and treading water? Not so much.

As a huge fan of 99/2000 WCW, I absolutely agree. It was awful and insane, but a LOT of fun.

Generally though, I'm quite entertained by WWE right now. I don't like EVERYTHING they're doing, but I like a lot of it.

[The Tank]

...never really thought about it before, but yeah.

The only difference is they don't have an unquestionably superior competitor to make it abundantly clear just how far the mighty have fallen.

[Amazing Kitsune]

Not really. I get the comparison, but the feel is very, very different. On the surface, some things may look WCWish, but it's really just on the surface. Current RAW is nothing like Nitro. The upward mobility in the WWE is still light years better than WCW.

We don't have a Konnan Music video or anything.

[RIHT]

Dec 27, 2013 14:53:54 GMT -5 molson5 said:

Well, they're making tons of money, that would be a key difference.

And I can follow what's going on in WWE. There's too much TV but even if I fast-forward through it, the storylines are actually pretty basic and simple and generally make sense. If this was WCW, Daniel Bryan would have already joined and then turned on the authority, at least twice.

Didn't WCW make tons of money at first, too, then head for their infamous decline?

[Sparkybob]

Dec 29, 2013 0:22:14 GMT -5 RIHT said:

Dec 27, 2013 14:53:54 GMT -5 molson5 said:

Well, they're making tons of money, that would be a key difference.

And I can follow what's going on in WWE. There's too much TV but even if I fast-forward through it, the storylines are actually pretty basic and simple and generally make sense. If this was WCW, Daniel Bryan would have already joined and then turned on the authority, at least twice.

Didn't WCW make tons of money at first, too, then head for their infamous decline?

Wellevery successful company makes money at some point. This thread seems to be talking about 1999/2000 WCW where it was bleeding money. Unless you have some charts and graphs that show the WWE's budget is in the red, their financial situation is no where near late WCW.

[Oh Cry Me a Screwball]

Don't forget about the guy with the initials HHH and his lover opening up each show with 20 minute monologues.

[Cry Me a Wiggle]

WWE is a weird hybrid of WCW in early 1999 (the outright refusal to really put over new stars, the paint-by-numbers booking) and Kevin Sullivan's early 2000 booking reign (boring and out of touch).

What I wouldn't give for some outright Russo insanity right about now.

[metylerca]

Dec 27, 2013 14:57:51 GMT -5 Hit Girl said:

To a certain extent yes. It reminds me of WCW, circa 2000

Come on man, WCW 2000 was leaps and bounds worse than WWE today.

[thecrusherwi]

Dec 27, 2013 20:32:32 GMT -5 Amazing Kitsune said:

Not really. I get the comparison, but the feel is very, very different. On the surface, some things may look WCWish, but it's really just on the surface. Current RAW is nothing like Nitro. The upward mobility in the WWE is still light years better than WCW.

We don't have a Konnan Music video or anything.

Are we sure about that? After Goldberg got organically over as the biggest guy on the roster, he didn't lose to Hogan by screwy means a whole bunch of times and then get pushed back into a feud with Raven's Flock.

I would say WWE is worse in many ways than pre-Russo WCW was. Sure they are making money, but a a fan, that is really of no concern to my enjoyment of the show. But they have all of these problems by choice. They choose to treat the old guard as much more important; they aren't contractually obligated to like WCW was with all the creative control contracts. They choose to micromanage their midcard to be bland and unimportant. While WCWs midcard was unimportant, I would argue that it definitely wasn't as bland because the company didn't care about it. Guys cut their own promos and did their own things in matches. This would often lead to fun inconsequential things that the company would run with if it got over like Meng's Tongan Death Grip or La Parka's "Chair-man" gimmick or Norman Smiley's big wiggle. That could never happen in the modern WWE. Guys can't try anything. They just go out there, have a paint buy numbers match with no personality and then are told they can't get over by management.

[EvenBaldobombHasAJob]

Dec 29, 2013 0:34:31 GMT -5 Oh Cry Me a Screwball said:

Don't forget about the guy with the initials HHH and his lover opening up each show with 20 minute monologues.

but Shawn never opens up the show...

[Amazing Kitsune]

Dec 29, 2013 10:16:49 GMT -5 thecrusherwi said:

Dec 27, 2013 20:32:32 GMT -5 Amazing Kitsune said:

Not really. I get the comparison, but the feel is very, very different. On the surface, some things may look WCWish, but it's really just on the surface. Current RAW is nothing like Nitro. The upward mobility in the WWE is still light years better than WCW.

We don't have a Konnan Music video or anything.

Are we sure about that? After Goldberg got organically over as the biggest guy on the roster, he didn't lose to Hogan by screwy means a whole bunch of times and then get pushed back into a feud with Raven's Flock.

I would say WWE is worse in many ways than pre-Russo WCW was. Sure they are making money, but a a fan, that is really of no concern to my enjoyment of the show. But they have all of these problems by choice. They choose to treat the old guard as much more important; they aren't contractually obligated to like WCW was with all the creative control contracts. They choose to micromanage their midcard to be bland and unimportant. While WCWs midcard was unimportant, I would argue that it definitely wasn't as bland because the company didn't care about it. Guys cut their own promos and did their own things in matches. This would often lead to fun inconsequential things that the company would run with if it got over like Meng's Tongan Death Grip or La Parka's "Chair-man" gimmick or Norman Smiley's big wiggle. That could never happen in the modern WWE. Guys can't try anything. They just go out there, have a paint buy numbers match with no personality and then are told they can't get over by management.

They pushed Goldberg to the moon, for sure. And several other guys, especially during the dying days. Still, I'd say you're still more likely to get a push in WWE now than WCW from about 1997 onward.

We've had the SHIELD and DB get major pushes in the last year, for example. Goldust and Cody Rhodes became major players in a renewed tag division. The Wyatts debuted on the scene and have obtained a sustained push.

The WWE, in terms of mobility, is eons better than it was even five years ago. They went through a phase where they NEVER created new stars. They've done a very admirable job, in recent years, of creating new stars--even at the very top of the card.

[mrbananagrabber]

I've noticed an increase in Smackdown re-caps recently on Raw, where guys like Orton, Bryan and Cena get featured, so it does look like it's being elevated somewhat. Raw is the flagship show, though, always has been.

[Dat Dude]

Umm...WCW gave mid carders story lines (Conspiracy Jericho, Raven's Flock, Positively Page, LWO, Chavo with his stick horse, along with countless others), and although there was a clear glass ceiling at least they put a 1000 times more effort into mid to low carders that WWE has.