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Post by Ganon83 on Feb 3, 2014 10:29:40 GMT -5
Honestly, to me this doesn't change Peyton's legacy that much. He isn't like Rich Gannon, he's had consistent success outside of the pay-offs, and even then he usually loses to the Patriots, who have won 10 out of the last 11 AFC East championships.
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Post by EP 54 is banned from Collision on Feb 3, 2014 10:37:05 GMT -5
He's one of the greatest of all time. 'Peyton can't win the big game' He's already won 1 NFL championship, and 3 AFC championships, they don't count as 'big games'?
If you cherry pick results like that, you can make anyone look great or bad. 'Tom Brady is the best Quarterback ever, he won 3 championships!' vs 'Tom Brady isn't that great, he hasn't won a championship in nearly 10 years, he choked TWICE in the Superbowl (against average looking Giants teams!) in that time... are we sure it wasn't just the rest of the team that got him those wins?' The truth is somewhere in between.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Feb 3, 2014 10:53:05 GMT -5
Honestly though, was it all Peyton's fault? No it wasn't because there was so many drop passes and fumbles it was crazy. Those where reason why they never got into a rythom of any kind. Plus I think there whole mental prep got all out of wack on the first snap that went into a safety. Which again a horrible snap but I think it throw everyone off and couldn't rebound.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Feb 3, 2014 10:53:42 GMT -5
I told several people I know this prediction that ended up coming true. If Seattle is allowed (by the refs) to play their physical smash mouth defense, Manning has no chance against them. To be honest I am amazed the refs swallowed their whistles and allowed Seattle to play their hard hitting style. Did you see some of those hits? Jeez....
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Post by MGH on Feb 3, 2014 10:56:21 GMT -5
Manning's legacy isn't changing for me game by game. That's my least favorite thing in sports. There is nothing at this point in his career that he can do to change my view of him. One of the best ever, arguably the best ever, and no single game result is changing that.
Spare me the RINGS RINGS NOTHING ELSE MATTERS BUT RINGS argument. This isn't golf.
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Post by Orange on Feb 3, 2014 11:02:55 GMT -5
He's one of the greatest of all time. 'Peyton can't win the big game' He's already won 1 NFL championship, and 3 AFC championships, they don't count as 'big games'? If you cherry pick results like that, you can make anyone look great or bad. 'Tom Brady is the best Quarterback ever, he won 3 championships!' vs 'Tom Brady isn't that great, he hasn't won a championship in nearly 10 years, he choked TWICE in the Superbowl (against average looking Giants teams!) in that time... are we sure it wasn't just the rest of the team that got him those wins?' The truth is somewhere in between. Well, what gets me is when people talk about Peyton's ring. Last night I heard Rich Eisen say that Peyton Manning has only has 1 ring. I think when people talk about Peyton, the underestimate how hard it is to not only get to the Super Bowl, but win it, as well. Hell, Marino doesn't have any, but he's considered one of the greatest (and rightfully so), so I'm not sure why Manning is given so much shit for "only" having one. It'd be like saying, "well, Montana only has 4 rings; why doesn't he have 7?" When it's all said and done he'll be considered one of the greatest, and based off the way he plays the game with all the stats he has, I think he should be considered the greatest. If he needs one more ring for the media to consider him so than so be it, but Super Bowl wins are team wins; unless they put Peyton out there to do it all himself, he needs the guys around him to help him get a ring. With what he did in resurrecting Indy and how he was able to come back from his injury to put up the numbers he did, in my eyes, he's the greatest.
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
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Post by BRV on Feb 3, 2014 11:08:13 GMT -5
I agree with the sentiment that last night's game did not affect Peyton Manning's legacy, because what we saw last night was what I already perceive Peyton Manning's legacy to be: an all-time great quarterback who puts up gaudy stats in the regular season with high-powered offenses, but when the lights get a little too bright, he wilts, and that is precisely what happened last night.
Spare me the inevitable Adam Schefter column that blames every other Denver Bronco for last night's loss. "If Manny Ramirez doesn't snap it over his head, they win!" or "If the second half kickoff doesn't bounce right into Harvin's hands, they win!", he'll inevitably write. Peyton Manning came into the Super Bowl with the highest-scoring offense in NFL history, and he led them to eight points. Manning last night said that it's insulting to use the word "embarrassing", but I'll use it for him. What we saw last night was embarrassing. The Broncos, including Manning, totally no-showed the biggest game of the year and walked away with a single touchdown. All those yards he piled up in the regular season, and all those touchdowns, and today, none of it matters.
Are we seriously supposed to gloss over the wounded duck he put right into Kam Chancellor's numbers? How about the fact that it took until the second quarter for the best offense in the league to move the chains? Or that they were shut out for the game's first 44-plus minutes? On the Malcolm Smith pick-six, his arm was struck as he was throwing, but did you see the replay? Who the hell was he planning on throwing to? Each receiver had a Seahawk blanketed all over him. How about the 4th and 2 late in the first half, when he ignores a wide-open Julius Thomas over the middle to instead lob one in the area of three Seahawks and one Broncos receiver? What was supposed to come from that? Hell, Manning should consider himself lucky he walked away with only two interceptions, because there was another dying quail that he threw in the third quarter that Richard Sherman almost grabbed.
Peyton Manning put up an all-time stinker in the game that was supposed to define him. I don't care about the garbage-time yards or the hollow completions record. He walked onto the field at MetLife Stadium and laid an egg, and there's absolutely no denying it.
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Post by Orange on Feb 3, 2014 11:18:14 GMT -5
I agree with the sentiment that last night's game did not affect Peyton Manning's legacy, because what we saw last night was what I already perceive Peyton Manning's legacy to be: an all-time great quarterback who puts up gaudy stats in the regular season with high-powered offenses, but when the lights get a little too bright, he wilts, and that is precisely what happened last night. Spare me the inevitable Adam Schefter column that blames every other Denver Bronco for last night's loss. "If Manny Ramirez doesn't snap it over his head, they win!" or "If the second half kickoff doesn't bounce right into Harvin's hands, they win!", he'll inevitably write. Peyton Manning came into the Super Bowl with the highest-scoring offense in NFL history, and he led them to eight points. Manning last night said that it's insulting to use the word "embarrassing", but I'll use it for him. What we saw last night was embarrassing. The Broncos, including Manning, totally no-showed the biggest game of the year and walked away with a single touchdown. All those yards he piled up in the regular season, and all those touchdowns, and today, none of it matters. Are we seriously supposed to gloss over the wounded duck he put right into Kam Chancellor's numbers? How about the fact that it took until the second quarter for the best offense in the league to move the chains? Or that they were shut out for the game's first 44-plus minutes? On the Malcolm Smith pick-six, his arm was struck as he was throwing, but did you see the replay? Who the hell was he planning on throwing to? Each receiver had a Seahawk blanketed all over him. How about the 4th and 2 late in the first half, when he ignores a wide-open Julius Thomas over the middle to instead lob one in the area of three Seahawks and one Broncos receiver? What was supposed to come from that? Hell, Manning should consider himself lucky he walked away with only two interceptions, because there was another dying quail that he threw in the third quarter that Richard Sherman almost grabbed. Peyton Manning put up an all-time stinker in the game that was supposed to define him. I don't care about the garbage-time yards or the hollow completions record. He walked onto the field at MetLife Stadium and laid an egg, and there's absolutely no denying it. Jeff Garcia on NFLN just said that it wasn't a matter of Peyton letting the team down or the team letting Manning down, but they all let each other down, and I couldn't agree more. He said that when it came time nobody could step up for one another, and Peyton didn't make the throws he's fully capable of making. As I said last night, I do think we'll go back to the Super Bowl next year, but this team has some serious retooling to do if they want to bring the Lombardi back to Colorado. This team needs to focus heavily on defense, and they need to get depth at the important positions; when one guy goes down they can't plug in some nobody and hope it works. That's not what's going to win Super Bowls, especially against physical teams like Seattle. I agree with whoever it was that said we don't need rebuilding, but retooling. We'll get it done because we're on the right track, but they've got a ways to go. Hopefully getting bitch slapped by a superior team on a national stage was a hell of a wake up call for this team.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Feb 3, 2014 11:29:48 GMT -5
Peyton did make a lot of bad throws, but to be fair, he rarely had time to throw. The Broncos' offensive line was a sieve last night. On nearly every passing play Peyton was hurried. I mean exactly how many times did the pocket collapse almost instantly and Peyton was forced to roll out or step forward just to get the pass off?
Could he have made smarter throws? For damn sure. Was it all his fault? No. It was the entire offense's fault.
As much as I agree that they need to focus on defense this offseason, they also need to focus on offensive line. You are never going to win a Super Bowl with an o-line that collapses as quickly and easily as Denver's did last night.
I hope every GM/President watches last night's Super Bowl over and over and look at the Broncos and realize that that isn't good enough to win a Super Bowl. It might be good enough to make it to the Super Bowl, but that's about it.
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Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Feb 3, 2014 11:30:53 GMT -5
This game for Denver was practically there 1980s team re-incarnated. A great QB (Elway then, Manning now) with an offense that is supposed to be explosive, lack of a running game, a defense that can't keep up (though not as bad as Denver in SB 21, 22 and 24) with a coach that lacks the instinct to win the big one (Reeves then, Fox now)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2014 11:35:19 GMT -5
Manning's legacy isn't changing for me game by game. That's my least favorite thing in sports. There is nothing at this point in his career that he can do to change my view of him. One of the best ever, arguably the best ever, and no single game result is changing that. Spare me the RINGS RINGS NOTHING ELSE MATTERS BUT RINGS argument. This isn't golf. To me, it has far less to do with rings (which pisses me off, because that means Trent Dilfer is better than Dan Marino), and more about reliability. I went down the road many times with Manning when he was with the Colts, and far too often, we got kicked out of the playoffs sooner than we should. The defense failed us a few times, Mike Vanderjagt failed us, but Manning almost always seems to stall when it's "win or go home" time. That's why I have him as a choke artist. The entire Broncos team did poorly, but Manning has to shoulder some of the blame.
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Post by Orange on Feb 3, 2014 11:36:33 GMT -5
Peyton did make a lot of bad throws, but to be fair, he rarely had time to throw. The Broncos' offensive line was a sieve last night. On nearly every passing play Peyton was hurried. I mean exactly how many times did the pocket collapse almost instantly and Peyton was forced to roll out or step forward just to get the pass off? Could he have made smarter throws? For damn sure. Was it all his fault? No. It was the entire offense's fault. As much as I agree that they need to focus on defense this offseason, they also need to focus on offensive line. You are never going to win a Super Bowl with an o-line that collapses as quickly and easily as Denver's did last night. I hope every GM/President watches last night's Super Bowl over and over and look at the Broncos and realize that that isn't good enough to win a Super Bowl. It might be good enough to make it to the Super Bowl, but that's about it. It doesn't make sense. The o-line was solid all year long, and then they completely keeled over last night. Having Ryan Clady back next year will help out immensely, but I agree that o-line needs to be fixed after what we saw last night. I think the main difference is that the entire team looked unmotivated. I don't know if Fox and/or Del Rio just aren't good motivators, but the fierceness and intensity that the 'Hawks came out with was incredible. They looked like a team with something to prove, and we looked like a team who wanted to make sure we didn't hit anybody too hard and give dem wittle ouchies. Before the game I felt that the Seahawks were going to play too flustered because they were so young, and that we had it because we were the calm, cool and collected team. I had the story right, but never did I think the team led by Peyton would be the team that looked flustered and lost. So it goes, brother. So it goes.
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Post by Orange on Feb 3, 2014 11:38:18 GMT -5
This game for Denver was practically there 1980s team re-incarnated. A great QB (Elway then, Manning now) with an offense that is supposed to be explosive, lack of a running game, a defense that can't keep up (though not as bad as Denver in SB 21, 22 and 24) with a coach that lacks the instinct to win the big one (Reeves then, Fox now) I saw a few old school and long time Bronco fans say the same thing on forums and reddit last night. If this is what Bronco fans felt like in the 80s, what a horrible decade to be around for. Well, hell, the scores alone tell you how bad those Super Bowl performances were.
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Ben Wyatt
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Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Feb 3, 2014 11:44:22 GMT -5
I agree with the sentiment that last night's game did not affect Peyton Manning's legacy, because what we saw last night was what I already perceive Peyton Manning's legacy to be: an all-time great quarterback who puts up gaudy stats in the regular season with high-powered offenses, but when the lights get a little too bright, he wilts, and that is precisely what happened last night. Spare me the inevitable Adam Schefter column that blames every other Denver Bronco for last night's loss. "If Manny Ramirez doesn't snap it over his head, they win!" or "If the second half kickoff doesn't bounce right into Harvin's hands, they win!", he'll inevitably write. Peyton Manning came into the Super Bowl with the highest-scoring offense in NFL history, and he led them to eight points. Manning last night said that it's insulting to use the word "embarrassing", but I'll use it for him. What we saw last night was embarrassing. The Broncos, including Manning, totally no-showed the biggest game of the year and walked away with a single touchdown. All those yards he piled up in the regular season, and all those touchdowns, and today, none of it matters. Are we seriously supposed to gloss over the wounded duck he put right into Kam Chancellor's numbers? How about the fact that it took until the second quarter for the best offense in the league to move the chains? Or that they were shut out for the game's first 44-plus minutes? On the Malcolm Smith pick-six, his arm was struck as he was throwing, but did you see the replay? Who the hell was he planning on throwing to? Each receiver had a Seahawk blanketed all over him. How about the 4th and 2 late in the first half, when he ignores a wide-open Julius Thomas over the middle to instead lob one in the area of three Seahawks and one Broncos receiver? What was supposed to come from that? Hell, Manning should consider himself lucky he walked away with only two interceptions, because there was another dying quail that he threw in the third quarter that Richard Sherman almost grabbed. Peyton Manning put up an all-time stinker in the game that was supposed to define him. I don't care about the garbage-time yards or the hollow completions record. He walked onto the field at MetLife Stadium and laid an egg, and there's absolutely no denying it. Agreed. Look, if the talking heads (Schefter, who wrote that rediculous ball wash of an article 2 weeks ago, I'm looking at you) are going to gush over everything Manning does when his team wins, then it should only stand to reason that when he is a factor in a crushing loss last night, or last years AFC title game, he gets called on it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2014 11:51:59 GMT -5
Peyton's numbers obviously put him in the HOF and one of the best to play. However, when Peyton goes up against a team that is equally or more talented than his he plays like ass a good bit of the time. Going all the way back to his days at Tennessee, every year the Vols would be hyped up as a NC contender and every year Florida would roll them like hobos with a bunch of picks and pass rush. If you let him stand back there with no pass rush he's probably the best, but if a team gets pressure on him he makes dumb throws. Always has, that is the one knock against him.
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Post by Romeo Hotel on Feb 3, 2014 11:59:59 GMT -5
All I have to look forward to now is the combine.
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Post by Romeo Hotel on Feb 3, 2014 12:03:01 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2014 12:08:31 GMT -5
Champ was past his prime like 2 years ago, it's just embarrassing now. Hang it up dude.
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Post by Orange on Feb 3, 2014 12:10:49 GMT -5
Ain't no way in hell he's worth 10 million. In his prime he was the best corner in the game, but he doesn't get to have that kind of payday anymore. With as often as he is injured he's not worth that type of money. That's money that could be better spent resigning guys like DRC.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Feb 3, 2014 12:15:22 GMT -5
It's gotta be said: Peyton looked like utter shit yesterday. He looked old, slow and tired. Yeah, it's a team game, but some of the choices he made led to those turnovers.
He's an all-time great certainly, but I think we got a pretty definitive answer on who's the better quarterback between he and Brady yesterday; certainly in big games.
That's no knock, while they were both great, Montana was better than Marino as well.
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