|
Post by subject2 on Mar 23, 2014 20:10:13 GMT -5
When Batman Forever came out it got praised by critics and fans if I recall...sure they had gone lighter in tone but still kept dark elements and the story was pretty good. It seemed though when Batman & Robin was released to such hatred and bombed..it dragged Batman Forever down with it. Joel Schumacher and Bat nipples were the worst things going as a Batman fan...despite existing in Batman Forever to no real criticism.
When I watch Batman Forever now I still think its a good movie...is it cheesy? Yeah of course but in the same way Sam Raimis Spidermans felt cheesy and light hearted. The story and action are still fun...its only in Batman & Robin did it become a toy commercial.
I just don't think Batman Forever deserves to be in the same bracket as Batman & Robin...the themes on duality and subplots seem way too advanced for B&R.
What do you guys think? Does Batman Forever deserver to be as hated at Batman & Robin?
|
|
|
Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Mar 23, 2014 20:14:30 GMT -5
Batman Forever was one of my favorite movies as a kid.
I loved Jim Carrey as the Riddler.
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 23, 2014 20:17:36 GMT -5
I say this every time this thread comes up every few months (no offense, but it does), but yeah, it's absolutely as shitty as &Robin. If anything, it's more egregious, because the pieces were there for a really good movie.
|
|
Yami Daimao
Patti Mayonnaise
Really, really wants to zigazig ah!
Posts: 31,784
|
Post by Yami Daimao on Mar 23, 2014 20:18:42 GMT -5
Batman Forever was one of my favorite movies as a kid. I loved Jim Carrey as the Riddler. Pretty much this. If anything, it also gave us:
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 23, 2014 20:20:24 GMT -5
Batman Forever was one of my favorite movies as a kid. I loved Jim Carrey as the Riddler. Pretty much this. If anything, it also gave us: To me that's another strike against it. Now if you'd said Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me... that I coulda agreed with
|
|
|
Post by James Fabiano on Mar 23, 2014 20:33:10 GMT -5
The writing is on the wall, and they try to turn the villains into Joker clones (Riddler it works better with, Blueberry Pie Fa...er, Two-Face? Not so much.). But it did try harder to flesh out Bruce Wayne, and added the "one rule" to Batman's philosophy.
And I admit it, I cheered for the "Holy rusted metal" scene, as did most of the theater.
This is another example of the WWF Russo vs. WCW Russo comparison I made between the Michael Bay of Transformers 1 and 2, and oddly enough, it applies to Tim Burton between Batman and Batman Returns. Same thing can be said for BF Schumacher (kind of reined in) vs. B&R Schumacher (just throws all his crap to the wall)
|
|
Phosphor Glow
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Is a real girl!
Posts: 19,866
|
Post by Phosphor Glow on Mar 23, 2014 20:43:17 GMT -5
I say this every time this thread comes up every few months (no offense, but it does), but yeah, it's absolutely as shitty as &Robin. If anything, it's more egregious, because the pieces were there for a really good movie. I would definitely say it's worse than Batman & Robin. It honestly kind of lacks an identity, existing somewhere between trying to be dark and trying to be silly and over the top. I actually think Batman & Robin is a very fun movie because it simply doesn't give a shit and goes all the way into ridiculous territory.
|
|
Malcolm
Grimlock
Wanted something done about the color of his ring.
Eternal No-Hoper
Posts: 13,478
|
Post by Malcolm on Mar 23, 2014 20:49:42 GMT -5
Pretty much this. If anything, it also gave us: To me that's another strike against it. Now if you'd said Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me... that I coulda agreed with My brother played that song all the time, all day and all night, loudly... I freaking hate that song thanks to him.
|
|
|
Post by Display Name on Mar 23, 2014 20:55:51 GMT -5
Batman & Robin > Batman Forever
Hate Tommy Lee Jones' Two-Face and Carrey's annoying.
|
|
|
Post by ZombieElvis on Mar 23, 2014 21:17:43 GMT -5
Batman & Robin is at least fun to watch and make fun of how terrible it is.
Two-Face in Batman Forever ruins the movie for me since they don't go into detail about his life as Harvey Dent and how Two-Face came into being. Two-Face is the type of character that needs to be developed and can't just be thrown out there like they did in Batman Forever.
Other reasons I dislike Batman Forever are that Jim Carey was too over the top, Kilmer being a terrible Bruce Wayne and Nicole Kidman was just dull in it. I actually liked Kilmer's work in the bat suit, but his portrayal of Bruce Wayne is the worst live action Bruce Wayne IMO.
|
|
|
Post by Cela on Mar 23, 2014 21:20:43 GMT -5
I really liked Batman Forever growing up, Batman and Robin is one of the first movies I remember just hating, it was just so lame.
|
|
AFN: Judge Shred
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wanted to change his doohicky.
Member of The Bluetista Buyers Club
Posts: 18,221
|
Post by AFN: Judge Shred on Mar 23, 2014 21:23:02 GMT -5
Batman & Robin is at least fun to watch and make fun of how terrible it is. Two-Face in Batman Forever ruins the movie for me since they don't go into detail about his life as Harvey Dent and how Two-Face came into being. Two-Face is the type of character that needs to be developed and can't just be thrown out there like they did in Batman Forever. Other reasons I dislike Batman Forever are that Jim Carey was too over the top, Kilmer being a terrible Bruce Wayne and Nicole Kidman was just dull in it. I actually liked Kilmer's work in the bat suit, but his portrayal of Bruce Wayne is the worst live action Bruce Wayne IMO. I am grateful they didn't do background on Two Face. I don't need to villain origins in one films. We didn't even need Riddler's.
|
|
SAJ Forth
Wade Wilson
Jamaican WCF Crazy!
Half Man-Half Amazing
Posts: 27,214
|
Post by SAJ Forth on Mar 23, 2014 21:44:50 GMT -5
It seemed like it was the studio trying to remain with the tone of the previous films, while trying to set the groundwork for the disaster.
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave on Mar 23, 2014 21:49:57 GMT -5
I love Batman Forever.
It's probably my second favorite of the original Batman series right behind the original Batman movie.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2014 21:57:28 GMT -5
This isn't about Batman, but I think it's relevant: something about the first Sam Raimi Spider-Man. It's one of the last culturally-90's films ever produced. I know, it got released well after the year 2000, but the US was still in the 90's until 9/11.
If you go back and really watch it, it has that certain cheesy flare of the 90's, and fashion-wise is on the cusp of the late 90's and early 2000's.
|
|
FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,377
|
Post by FinalGwen on Mar 23, 2014 22:20:05 GMT -5
I'm of the opinion that Carrey's take on Riddler was far worse than even Schwarzenegger's Mr Freeze, so it really wasn't as enjoyable for me in that respect. Although I will say that I absolutely love the aesthetic Gotham had in the two films, and think it's possibly the best version ever. Everything feels that little bit distorted and over the top, like the twisted personalities of the heroes and villains are taking the city with them. Antiquity mixed up with an apocalyptic rave.
|
|
|
Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Mar 23, 2014 22:37:02 GMT -5
To me, it's better than Batman Returns, and only Nicholson raises Batman '89 above it.
Two-Face is a horrible character that throws away any and all complexity and menace associated with the character and replaces it with generic wacky howling "look at me I'm crazy!" nonsense.
Bruce Wayne is a two-dimensional bore, and if Batman is the World's Greatest Detective it's a wonder that anybody actually follows the law. He got outsmarted by one the villains' molls for Christ's sake!
Dick Grayson as written would have been a great 15 year-old, but Chris O'Donnell was 25 at the time so there was a clear disconnect between the character and the actor.
Jim Carrey is outstanding at times, and other times he's just doing typical '90s Jim Carrey schtick.
Commissioner Gordon is still a bumbling goofball, Chase Meridian is a walking "Batman isn't gay, really!" assertion and nothing more, and the less said about the schlocky performances from most of the supporting cast the better.
All that considered, I love the production design. Say what you want about the copious and illogical amounts of neon in Gotham, it works for me. It feels like a comic book come to life, is as distinctive as TAS' version of Gotham, and doesn't feel like a tiny backlot set as Burton's Gotham did.
|
|
Goldenbane
Hank Scorpio
THE G.D. Goldenbane
Posts: 7,331
|
Post by Goldenbane on Mar 23, 2014 23:03:03 GMT -5
Unfortunately I remember seeing the Riddler's appearance in Batman: TAS before seeing Batman Forever. Seeing the superior performances in that cartoon for both Riddler and Two Face then seeing "Green Pajamas Ace Ventura" and whatever the hell Tommy Lee Jones was really killed the movie for me. A "mere" cartoon made both characters rather dark (seriously, the first Riddler episode is kinda chilling at the end) and to see the annoying way they were in the movie was sad. Yeah, Poison Ivy and Mr. Freeze were also worse than horrible in Batman and Robin but...fair or not...it's Arnold Schwarzenegger playing Freeze, so I can't help but give it a little bit of a pass. Besides, seeing how dorky Forever was, I really wasn't expecting anything less.
|
|
|
Post by DSR on Mar 23, 2014 23:10:51 GMT -5
I've always said that it tries to be both a serious character exploration and a wacky over-the-top campfest, but trying to be both makes it suck at doing either one of them well.
So yeah, I think it deserves the scorn.
|
|
|
Post by Wolf Hawkfield no1 NZ poster on Mar 23, 2014 23:54:30 GMT -5
It at least felt like a Batman which is more than you can say than Batman returns which felt like Tim Burton film that just happened to have Batman in it.
|
|