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Post by camsamurai06 on Apr 18, 2014 8:49:22 GMT -5
Seeing Miz try to carry himself in that clip is hilarious. Even he seemed to know that he was way out of his depth. I didnt get that vibe at all from the video. He seemed pretty confident and beleived in himself. Good video, I always loved Miz as WWE Champion and seeing his ascension in 2010 was such a breath of fresh air in a time dominated by an untested and nervous Sheamus and tired acts in Orton and Cena. It could easily have been Barret's year too but the burial of The Nexus at Summerslam put an end to that. Miz's run here helped me beleive in myself again when I was suffering from mental illness. It sucks it ended badly for him and he's been treated in woeful ways ever since that run, there was definitely something there that warranted the decision to shoot him to the moon, it's just a shame he realized too early "meh, done it all, satisfied" and doesnt fight to maintain that aura he had. Vince likes fighters.
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Post by modestgenius on Apr 18, 2014 8:56:28 GMT -5
Would have loved to see Punks reaction.
Cena a few months later: I'm sick of making average look awesome
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Post by superchamp on Apr 18, 2014 9:41:53 GMT -5
What a dick move. Mizfit 4 life... Unless Miz is a face. I saw somebody speculate on the comments that there could be some sort of code in wrestling where the person receiving applause/adulation waits until somebody offers their hand to congratulate THEM rather than extending their own hand to those applauding. Makes more sense than Triple H outright blanking somembody like that and also explains why Triple H reached out for Miz's hand after he passed him.....sorry I'm doing this wrong, Triple H what a dick, Boo that man, married to further his career yadda yadda yadda (Am I doing it right now?) Yeah, just seems like more of an awkward mis-communication rather than Trips deliberately being a dick. That gif is still hilarious though.
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Ben Wyatt
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I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Apr 18, 2014 9:47:43 GMT -5
Ugh. I know it's cool to hate on the Miz now, but the guy was as white hot a heel as they'd had in some time. The way he was booked following his title win should be hence forth be known as "How NOT to book a credible champion"
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Post by rydndirty on Apr 18, 2014 10:27:49 GMT -5
Ugh. I know it's cool to hate on the Miz now, but the guy was as white hot a heel as they'd had in some time. The way he was booked following his title win should be hence forth be known as "How NOT to book a credible champion" Same could be said for Mysterio. That said, I liked Miz as Champ and he really was White Hot as a heel at the time.
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Post by cahuette on Apr 18, 2014 10:33:40 GMT -5
Damn, this was the greatest night in wrestling history, the guy is still my favorite even if everyone hates him, I still believe he'll get back up there at one point, I'd believe it more if they used him though.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Apr 18, 2014 10:34:10 GMT -5
Ugh. I know it's cool to hate on the Miz now, but the guy was as white hot a heel as they'd had in some time. The way he was booked following his title win should be hence forth be known as "How NOT to book a credible champion" Same could be said for Mysterio. That said, I liked Miz as Champ and he really was White Hot as a heel at the time. Yeah, I forgot about Rey. That was also terrible.
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Post by KobashiChop on Apr 18, 2014 10:38:20 GMT -5
I remember that moment when he cashed it in on Orton. I liked it a lot as I felt he had came a long way in the ring and as his character. His video at wrestlemania to NAS you can hate me now is underrated imo. Hardly underrated. Everyone thinks its awesome.
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Post by sybaku on Apr 18, 2014 10:40:02 GMT -5
Damn, this was the greatest night in wrestling history, the guy is still my favorite even if everyone hates him, I still believe he'll get back up there at one point, I'd believe it more if they used him though. He's the perfect foil for all the "Indy gods" that are getting pushed (note I love Bryan and Cesaro that wasn't a dig at them). He never busted ass he doesn't fly around the ring he isn't some tough SOB, he's a weaselly douche who's good at sucking up to the bosses, he's the kid who gets an A on his paper because the professor likes him while other kids are busting their ass for a B+. He's the perfect anti-workrate heel Let him feud with Bryan their matches have always been good and they have a shit load of continuity.
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Apr 18, 2014 10:47:06 GMT -5
When Miz gets to Morrison, they both look baffled at the realization that Miz was a bigger success than JoMo. Miz had the work ethic for shilling that WWE loves and mic skills, but his in ring work is generic and boring and he can't carry anyone in a match. Morrison also had a good look and his ring work was incredible, but his promos were terrible. But if Miz and Morrison were one person, I think that person would still be a main event cornerstone to this day. And I think that's why they had Miz and Morrison team up, hoping their good traits would rub off on each other so they could both be stars. Sadly it didn't work for either guy.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2014 10:51:51 GMT -5
watcing the video, a lot of the congrats seemed pretty...low key. The guys in Gorilla weren't too excited, and some of the people shaking his hand seemed very business-like, like they did it because they had to. It didn't feel like a joyous occasion that everyone really wanted to see because Miz deserved it so much, I'd imagine it's really different for a lot of other guys winning their first WWE title.
I also thought it was pretty douchey of Miz to go right to Morrison and say "toldja I'm not the Janetty" like that. I get the sentiment and it was jokey, but that's implying Morrison is the Janetty. He didn't look to happy about it either.
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Crimson
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Crimson on Apr 18, 2014 11:05:43 GMT -5
I also thought it was pretty douchey of Miz to go right to Morrison and say "toldja I'm not the Janetty" like that. I get the sentiment and it was jokey, but that's implying Morrison is the Janetty. He didn't look to happy about it either. Frankly, i think both of them could have avoided the stigma but Morrison fell victim to cold-shouldergate.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Apr 18, 2014 11:24:43 GMT -5
I still find it hilarious how disingenuous Alicia sounds with that "Wow. That's great. Yeah."
Still, it's nice to see genuine camaraderie backstage, especially considering how immature and backstabby they usually come off in the newz.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Apr 18, 2014 11:41:48 GMT -5
Morrison showed his potential and was given what he was owed. He really was the Jannetty of the group. Miz was busting his ass, improving every single night while Morrison was a decent hand in the ring but he couldn't deliver on the mic. The exchange in the video was totally awkward because Morrison is just seething with jealousy. ALSO: Cena's note to Miz: "You're only as good as what you do next week."You're only as strong as how you're booked. Regarding "busting your ass", I found nothing about the subsequent spilt and single's push for Miz to be "busting hist ass". He had a clever feud with Cena, but in no way did Miz ever truly grow as a wrestler. He was limited in just about every way as a performer inside the ring, and once you're given that chance to be the guy, your once mediocre skills that were overlooked before because you aren't the champion, are now under a microscope. And yes, Cena was absolutely correct. Once you're champion, you'll need to step up and get better, which is exactly the advice that someone should have given to Cena when he was first champion, something that he started to figure out by mid 2006. Also, I f***ing hate HATE the term "the Jannetty". It's such a misconception on how tag team success is measured. I guess Morrison had drug problems and was released multiple times while Miz was climbing the ladder towards the main event? If anything, Morrison is the Andrew Ridgeley or the Larry Wilcox to Miz's George Michael or Erik Estrada. Ugh. I know it's cool to hate on the Miz now, but the guy was as white hot a heel as they'd had in some time. The way he was booked following his title win should be hence forth be known as "How NOT to book a credible champion" But he was never credible going in to win. He won the title with a MITB cash in, most cash ins have notoriously resulted in short reigns, or people who are looked upon as just gotten lucky. Let's be honest, out of every successful cash in, have we looked back on that person and thought "wow, that guy just legitimately beat Cena/Edge/Big Show/Orton. That's why the gimmick grew old rather quickly, because either the guy lost the title rather quickly, or it was pretty blatant that they get a real victory.
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Ben Wyatt
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Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Apr 18, 2014 11:50:50 GMT -5
Morrison showed his potential and was given what he was owed. He really was the Jannetty of the group. Miz was busting his ass, improving every single night while Morrison was a decent hand in the ring but he couldn't deliver on the mic. The exchange in the video was totally awkward because Morrison is just seething with jealousy. ALSO: Cena's note to Miz: "You're only as good as what you do next week."You're only as strong as how you're booked. Regarding "busting your ass", I found nothing about the subsequent spilt and single's push for Miz to be "busting hist ass". He had a clever feud with Cena, but in no way did Miz ever truly grow as a wrestler. He was limited in just about every way as a performer inside the ring, and once you're given that chance to be the guy, your once mediocre skills that were overlooked before because you aren't the champion, are now under a microscope. And yes, Cena was absolutely correct. Once you're champion, you'll need to step up and get better, which is exactly the advice that someone should have given to Cena when he was first champion, something that he started to figure out by mid 2006. Also, I f***ing hate HATE the term "the Jannetty". It's such a misconception on how tag team success is measured. I guess Morrison had drug problems and was released multiple times while Miz was climbing the ladder towards the main event? If anything, Morrison is the Andrew Ridgeley or the Larry Wilcox to Miz's George Michael or Erik Estrada. Ugh. I know it's cool to hate on the Miz now, but the guy was as white hot a heel as they'd had in some time. The way he was booked following his title win should be hence forth be known as "How NOT to book a credible champion" But he was never credible going in to win. He won the title with a MITB cash in, most cash ins have notoriously resulted in short reigns, or people who are looked upon as just gotten lucky. Let's be honest, out of every successful cash in, have we looked back on that person and thought "wow, that guy just legitimately beat Cena/Edge/Big Show/Orton. That's why the gimmick grew old rather quickly, because either the guy lost the title rather quickly, or it was pretty blatant that they get a real victory. Valid point, but you need to remember that it wasn't like when Swagger won after 9 months of jobbing. Miz had a legnthy US title run and won the MITB clean as a whistle. He'd been booked really strong before winning the title. Yeah, the cashing in aspect kinda boxed him in, but they booked him like utter dogshit after that. A cheap win against Jerry freaking Lawler A cheap Rumble win against Orton where half the world interefered. ANOTHER cheap win against Lawler (On a Pay per view, no less) with even MORE interference. Plays 2nd fiddle to Rock and Cena's epic feud where they cut promos trading insults like a couple of 4th graders. I'm not saying he had to go on a Goldberg-esque streak over everyone, but he had ONE credible win (Morrison in the street fight) and other than that he was basically booked like he was Santino with the US title
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Psychoblue
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Post by Psychoblue on Apr 18, 2014 12:01:27 GMT -5
Man, look at all of this salt in this thread that Miz had this moment. People claiming that no one in the locker room was happy for him, guys throwing barbs that he's a bad worker and was always a bad worker (spoiler, he's not, or he wouldn't have been considered for that role in the first place), guys applauding his descent from this spot, etc etc.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Apr 18, 2014 12:03:33 GMT -5
He was in that RVD/Kane area of booking, where he was made to look good in the midcard, almost to the point where he's booked too solidly, only to be not booked as strong in subsequent main event matches.
I hate this booking, however Miz could have, and should have done more to make those matches work. Again, you're put under the microscope when you have that title on you, so you need to go out there and show WHY you're champion.
I feel the Lawler feud was to cover up the fact that he was subpar in the ring.
I feel the blatant cheap victories over Orton was to cover up the fact that he was subpar in the ring.
I feel that practically leaving him out of the build to Wrestlemania 27 was to cover up the fact that he was subpar in the ring and not even remotely on Cena's level.
My eyes don't deceive me, and by trying to solidify a guy, who is no way ready for it as a wrestler, it's only going to hurt him and anyone he works with. That's why having a midcard title on him works, because anyone can work with him and work at the level they see is best. That's why I don't mind his work with Cena originally, nor his stuff with Bryan, or anytime he has someone to play off of, such as Truth or Morrison. But you give him the WWE title and expect me in 2010 to think that a guy with the arsenal of lame stomps, soft punches, a chokehold, running corner knee and a lame finisher is supposed to be superior to so many others?
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Ben Wyatt
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Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Apr 18, 2014 12:15:49 GMT -5
He was in that RVD/Kane area of booking, where he was made to look good in the midcard, almost to the point where he's booked too solidly, only to be not booked as strong in subsequent main event matches. I hate this booking, however Miz could have, and should have done more to make those matches work. Again, you're put under the microscope when you have that title on you, so you need to go out there and show WHY you're champion. I feel the Lawler feud was to cover up the fact that he was subpar in the ring. I feel the blatant cheap victories over Orton was to cover up the fact that he was subpar in the ring. I feel that practically leaving him out of the build to Wrestlemania 27 was to cover up the fact that he was subpar in the ring and not even remotely on Cena's level. My eyes don't deceive me, and by trying to solidify a guy, who is no way ready for it as a wrestler, it's only going to hurt him and anyone he works with. That's why having a midcard title on him works, because anyone can work with him and work at the level they see is best. That's why I don't mind his work with Cena originally, nor his stuff with Bryan, or anytime he has someone to play off of, such as Truth or Morrison. But you give him the WWE title and expect me in 2010 to think that a guy with the arsenal of lame stomps, soft punches, a chokehold, running corner knee and a lame finisher is supposed to be superior to so many others? I respectfully disagree with you on his in-ring stuff. He's not Bret Hart or Ric Flair in the their primes, but overall, he's better than average. And the thing that should matter most (he was really, really over as a heel) seems to be glossed over. You have a guy that the crowd loves or loves to hate and pays to see, wrestling promotion 101 says you book him strong. You don't waste him on a 60 year old announcer.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Apr 18, 2014 12:30:27 GMT -5
The problem again lies in the booking going into things.
They felt the need to make him solid in the midcard, only to fall in the main event. Now let's explore our options;
1. Make him a serious badass who can hold his own against superior workers such as Orton or Cena.
2. Make him a chicken shit heel that contradicts the past 6 months of booking.
It's a lose lose. They decided to go the third route by having it be some weird hybrid. And while I could have maybe MAYBE accepted this, the fact of the matter is, the title reign went on for way way way too long. In every sense of things, you'd think more people would gun for him over Lawler, but that would mean it would inhibit how their champion looks, for being outperformed. Miz might be a better worker than most of the WWF roster in 1983, but he's certainly not better than a lot of the people they could have gone to at the time;
CM Punk Wade Barrett (not an amazing worker, but he at least looks the part, which makes up for real tech ability) Kofi Kingston (I'll gladly take a lousy heel Kofi with stellar matches as opposed to what we got) King Sheamus R Truth (had he gone crazy earlier, this could have been very interesting) Dolph Ziggler Rey Mysterio (I almost vomited from writing that, but face/face wouldn't bother me) John Morrison (mic skills be damned, give him a manager and it all works out)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2014 12:37:43 GMT -5
He was in that RVD/Kane area of booking, where he was made to look good in the midcard, almost to the point where he's booked too solidly, only to be not booked as strong in subsequent main event matches. I hate this booking, however Miz could have, and should have done more to make those matches work. Again, you're put under the microscope when you have that title on you, so you need to go out there and show WHY you're champion. I feel the Lawler feud was to cover up the fact that he was subpar in the ring. I feel the blatant cheap victories over Orton was to cover up the fact that he was subpar in the ring. I feel that practically leaving him out of the build to Wrestlemania 27 was to cover up the fact that he was subpar in the ring and not even remotely on Cena's level. My eyes don't deceive me, and by trying to solidify a guy, who is no way ready for it as a wrestler, it's only going to hurt him and anyone he works with. That's why having a midcard title on him works, because anyone can work with him and work at the level they see is best. That's why I don't mind his work with Cena originally, nor his stuff with Bryan, or anytime he has someone to play off of, such as Truth or Morrison. But you give him the WWE title and expect me in 2010 to think that a guy with the arsenal of lame stomps, soft punches, a chokehold, running corner knee and a lame finisher is supposed to be superior to so many others? I respectfully disagree with you on his in-ring stuff. He's not Bret Hart or Ric Flair in the their primes, but overall, he's better than average. And the thing that should matter most (he was really, really over as a heel) seems to be glossed over. You have a guy that the crowd loves or loves to hate and pays to see, wrestling promotion 101 says you book him strong. You don't waste him on a 60 year old announcer. Just curious, who would you say is average in the ring? Given the talent level on the roster right now, I'd say the following guys are right around average: Fandango, Heath Slater, Darren Young, Damien Sandow. I don't think Miz is as good as any of those guys in the ring. Granted, all those guys are good, but with the plethora of great wrestlers on the roster and not so many truly terrible ones, the term average has to be relative to that. I wouldn't say he sucks, but he's out-classed right now, and a lot of the guys he is "better" in the ring than are big guys that have more of an identity between the ropes, which has always been a problem for Miz.
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