The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Apr 18, 2014 12:43:14 GMT -5
I don't usually like to go this argument route, but everyone saying how The Miz was undeserving of the WM push kind of completely missed the point. By that I mean, that WAS the point.
I blame the fact that heels are too flashy and entertaining these days. We've forgotten that we're supposed to hate these people. They're not supposed to be cool.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2014 12:53:03 GMT -5
Nobody can take that moment or that feeling away from the Miz, and that's all that matters. We can downgrade everything he's ever done, but those 160 days he was champion? That one night when he felt on top of the world?
That's going to be his forever and I love seeing how much it meant to him.
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mizerable
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You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Apr 18, 2014 12:53:18 GMT -5
I don't usually like to go this argument route, but everyone saying how The Miz was undeserving of the WM push kind of completely missed the point. By that I mean, that WAS the point. I blame the fact that heels are too flashy and entertaining these days. We've forgotten that we're supposed to hate these people. They're not supposed to be cool. Well, saying that he's undeserving is kind of a moot point. If we want to go that route, why not literally give it to someone who was kayfabe undeserving, such as a heel Santino? Or go in a legit route such as Ted Junior Dibiase. I mean, is that REALLY the story we want to tell?
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
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Post by The Ichi on Apr 18, 2014 12:56:54 GMT -5
I don't usually like to go this argument route, but everyone saying how The Miz was undeserving of the WM push kind of completely missed the point. By that I mean, that WAS the point. I blame the fact that heels are too flashy and entertaining these days. We've forgotten that we're supposed to hate these people. They're not supposed to be cool. Well, saying that he's undeserving is kind of a moot point. If we want to go that route, why not literally give it to someone who was kayfabe undeserving, such as a heel Santino? Or go in a legit route such as Ted Junior Dibiase. I mean, is that REALLY the story we want to tell? Those two were too far down the card though. The thing with Miz was that he was fastly on the rise, but not enough to make you think he would pull it off. He did, and the rage was great.
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Post by wahoowah11 on Apr 18, 2014 13:06:11 GMT -5
I remember that moment when he cashed it in on Orton. I liked it a lot as I felt he had came a long way in the ring and as his character. His video at wrestlemania to NAS you can hate me now is underrated imo. Hardly underrated. Everyone thinks its awesome. I just dont see it talked about that often. Was that also the first time he had the AWESOME blow up?
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Apr 18, 2014 13:08:58 GMT -5
Miz (and Mysterio, and Roman Reigns a year from now) are such perfect examples of people who were adored by the smarks, were booked badly in a top role, and then the smarks blamed them personally for their bad booking and forever turned on them and revised history to make it so Nuh uh I NEVER liked that guy!
The insane thing about Miz's championship run is that he was an obvious face who was booked as a heel. He was the underdog who nobody believed in but he worked hard and overcame the machine... and was a bad guy for doing so. They went out of their way to give him that role. It could be legit the most bewildering booking I've ever seen of a champion.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Apr 18, 2014 13:12:30 GMT -5
make it so Nuh uh I NEVER liked that guy! You know each and every one of us so well.
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Post by Nickybojelais on Apr 18, 2014 13:14:42 GMT -5
Miz (and Mysterio, and Roman Reigns a year from now) are such perfect examples of people who were adored by the smarks, were booked badly in a top role, and then the smarks blamed them personally for their bad booking and forever turned on them and revised history to make it so Nuh uh I NEVER liked that guy! The insane thing about Miz's championship run is that he was an obvious face who was booked as a heel. He was the underdog who nobody believed in but he worked hard and overcame the machine... and was a bad guy for doing so. They went out of their way to give him that role. It could be legit the most bewildering booking I've ever seen of a champion. The storyline surrounding his rise to the top of the business might be a classically face "underdog story", but when the person behind that story has zero endearing characteristics you cannot book the Miz as anything other than a heel.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Apr 18, 2014 13:18:44 GMT -5
Miz (and Mysterio, and Roman Reigns a year from now) are such perfect examples of people who were adored by the smarks, were booked badly in a top role, and then the smarks blamed them personally for their bad booking and forever turned on them and revised history to make it so Nuh uh I NEVER liked that guy! The insane thing about Miz's championship run is that he was an obvious face who was booked as a heel. He was the underdog who nobody believed in but he worked hard and overcame the machine... and was a bad guy for doing so. They went out of their way to give him that role. It could be legit the most bewildering booking I've ever seen of a champion. The storyline surrounding his rise to the top of the business might be a classically face "underdog story", but when the person behind that story has zero endearing characteristics you cannot book the Miz as anything other than a heel. Plenty of people liked him a lot, especially when he was with Morrison. His Wrestlemania video and his "My name is Mike Mizanin and I don't deserve to be here" promo were face stuff, period. If he'd had the same character but a good guy, he'd have been fine.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Apr 18, 2014 13:22:28 GMT -5
Miz (and Mysterio, and Roman Reigns a year from now) are such perfect examples of people who were adored by the smarks, were booked badly in a top role, and then the smarks blamed them personally for their bad booking and forever turned on them and revised history to make it so Nuh uh I NEVER liked that guy! The insane thing about Miz's championship run is that he was an obvious face who was booked as a heel. He was the underdog who nobody believed in but he worked hard and overcame the machine... and was a bad guy for doing so. They went out of their way to give him that role. It could be legit the most bewildering booking I've ever seen of a champion. And both Orton and AJ Lee have been booked like that recently, proving someone hasn't learned their lesson. Heels are not supposed to overcome the odds, they are supposed to be the odds.
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Post by sybaku on Apr 18, 2014 13:24:46 GMT -5
Miz (and Mysterio, and Roman Reigns a year from now) are such perfect examples of people who were adored by the smarks, were booked badly in a top role, and then the smarks blamed them personally for their bad booking and forever turned on them and revised history to make it so Nuh uh I NEVER liked that guy! The insane thing about Miz's championship run is that he was an obvious face who was booked as a heel. He was the underdog who nobody believed in but he worked hard and overcame the machine... and was a bad guy for doing so. They went out of their way to give him that role. It could be legit the most bewildering booking I've ever seen of a champion. I for one can't wait for the inevitable, "Reigns sucks I always hated him" "Rollins should have gotten the push" "he's just a dumb green hoss with a stupid punch" "his spear is stupid and not unique enough" "his promos are awkward" "He's an upper mid card at best" Comments that are sure to fill this board as soon as Reigns gets his push and subsequent depush, for a message board populated by smarks who "know the business" WWE sure knows how to work us.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Apr 18, 2014 13:24:56 GMT -5
make it so Nuh uh I NEVER liked that guy! You know each and every one of us so well. Okay yes, I should have clarified that I wasn't talking about the one or two people completely obsessed with despising the Miz and who talk about it all the time.
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Post by superchamp on Apr 18, 2014 13:25:59 GMT -5
Miz (and Mysterio, and Roman Reigns a year from now) are such perfect examples of people who were adored by the smarks, were booked badly in a top role, and then the smarks blamed them personally for their bad booking and forever turned on them and revised history to make it so Nuh uh I NEVER liked that guy! The insane thing about Miz's championship run is that he was an obvious face who was booked as a heel. He was the underdog who nobody believed in but he worked hard and overcame the machine... and was a bad guy for doing so. They went out of their way to give him that role. It could be legit the most bewildering booking I've ever seen of a champion. I actually thought Miz's rise to the top was, at the time, some of the best booking the WWE had done for a superstar since Batista's rise going into WM21. It reads like a face push because of the underdog element, sure, but Miz was absolutely fantastic as an obnoxious asshole that aspect was entirely overlooked, but at the same time, nobody at the time (or a very, very select few) was actually criticising the choice of Miz as WWE champion. As far as your first paragraph, while I think you're onto something, I also do genuinely think Punk's burial of Miz on his DVD is what has contributed to a lot of this "Miz was undeserving as Champion, I always hated him" type of collective mentality. I'm a big Punk fan, but I completely disagree with how he went about that. Not only was it just a shitty thing to do, I also think he was just completely wrong in what he was saying in that the crux of the argument was, at the time, he was the number one heel in the company over Miz; he wasn't, at all.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Apr 18, 2014 13:27:32 GMT -5
Morrison showed his potential and was given what he was owed. He really was the Jannetty of the group. Miz was busting his ass, improving every single night while Morrison was a decent hand in the ring but he couldn't deliver on the mic. The exchange in the video was totally awkward because Morrison is just seething with jealousy. ALSO: Cena's note to Miz: "You're only as good as what you do next week."You're only as strong as how you're booked. Regarding "busting your ass", I found nothing about the subsequent spilt and single's push for Miz to be "busting hist ass". He had a clever feud with Cena, but in no way did Miz ever truly grow as a wrestler. He was limited in just about every way as a performer inside the ring, and once you're given that chance to be the guy, your once mediocre skills that were overlooked before because you aren't the champion, are now under a microscope. And yes, Cena was absolutely correct. Once you're champion, you'll need to step up and get better, which is exactly the advice that someone should have given to Cena when he was first champion, something that he started to figure out by mid 2006. Also, I f***ing hate HATE the term "the Jannetty". It's such a misconception on how tag team success is measured. I guess Morrison had drug problems and was released multiple times while Miz was climbing the ladder towards the main event? If anything, Morrison is the Andrew Ridgeley or the Larry Wilcox to Miz's George Michael or Erik Estrada. Ugh. I know it's cool to hate on the Miz now, but the guy was as white hot a heel as they'd had in some time. The way he was booked following his title win should be hence forth be known as "How NOT to book a credible champion" But he was never credible going in to win. He won the title with a MITB cash in, most cash ins have notoriously resulted in short reigns, or people who are looked upon as just gotten lucky. Let's be honest, out of every successful cash in, have we looked back on that person and thought "wow, that guy just legitimately beat Cena/Edge/Big Show/Orton. That's why the gimmick grew old rather quickly, because either the guy lost the title rather quickly, or it was pretty blatant that they get a real victory. Considering that it was Randy Orton that he cashed in on and that the cash in could've just as easily ended with "RKOOUTOFNOWHERE!!!" I do consider Miz's cash in to be a somewhat credible victory even with the circumstances. Just like you said, you're only as strong as you're booked. Miz should've had a strong victory in the rematches against Orton to prove that he wasn't a fluke instead of needing interference (even if it did give us A-Ry's awesome dive onto New Nexus). He should've had a real opponent instead of feuding with Lawler just as a means to transition him into a feud with Michael Cole.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Apr 18, 2014 13:31:29 GMT -5
You know each and every one of us so well. Okay yes, I should have clarified that I wasn't talking about the one or two people completely obsessed with despising the Miz and who talk about it all the time. If you want to go back and look at the last time I even brought him up, be my guest. It's probably been several months. So my question is this; Someone posted a Miz thread, am I not allowed to respond to it? And if I can, does that mean I can't disagree with someone else? It's not like I just stopped by here to mention how much I despise the Miz. I mentioned how funny the gif was, then replied to a couple posts that I wanted to underline my disagreement with. But no...anytime someone disagrees, someone else comes along and dubs the disagreement as "hate" or some other bullshit. In fact, I've hardly seen anyone say the line "I have never liked him" when it comes to griping about a wrestler. That line usually comes up when someone is trying to poke holes in an opinion. That is silly.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Apr 18, 2014 13:33:55 GMT -5
Considering that it was Randy Orton that he cashed in on and that the cash in could've just as easily ended with "RKOOUTOFNOWHERE!!!" I do consider Miz's cash in to be a somewhat credible victory even with the circumstances. Just like you said, you're only as strong as you're booked. Miz should've had a strong victory in the rematches against Orton to prove that he wasn't a fluke instead of needing interference (even if it did give us A-Ry's awesome dive onto New Nexus). He should've had a real opponent instead of feuding with Lawler just as a means to transition him into a feud with Michael Cole. The problem is, the main event SUCKED at the time. Cena and Orton were booked too strong for almost anyone to come along and be on the same level, let alone a guy who isn't the most technically experienced wrestler out there. For Miz to work, he almost needed to feud exclusively with Morrison during the time he was champion until at least Mania.
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JTH
Dennis Stamp
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Post by JTH on Apr 18, 2014 14:22:07 GMT -5
1:10 Wow.
Bray Wyatt sure looks different...
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Ben Wyatt
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I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Apr 18, 2014 14:38:03 GMT -5
You're only as strong as how you're booked. Regarding "busting your ass", I found nothing about the subsequent spilt and single's push for Miz to be "busting hist ass". He had a clever feud with Cena, but in no way did Miz ever truly grow as a wrestler. He was limited in just about every way as a performer inside the ring, and once you're given that chance to be the guy, your once mediocre skills that were overlooked before because you aren't the champion, are now under a microscope. And yes, Cena was absolutely correct. Once you're champion, you'll need to step up and get better, which is exactly the advice that someone should have given to Cena when he was first champion, something that he started to figure out by mid 2006. Also, I f***ing hate HATE the term "the Jannetty". It's such a misconception on how tag team success is measured. I guess Morrison had drug problems and was released multiple times while Miz was climbing the ladder towards the main event? If anything, Morrison is the Andrew Ridgeley or the Larry Wilcox to Miz's George Michael or Erik Estrada. But he was never credible going in to win. He won the title with a MITB cash in, most cash ins have notoriously resulted in short reigns, or people who are looked upon as just gotten lucky. Let's be honest, out of every successful cash in, have we looked back on that person and thought "wow, that guy just legitimately beat Cena/Edge/Big Show/Orton. That's why the gimmick grew old rather quickly, because either the guy lost the title rather quickly, or it was pretty blatant that they get a real victory. Considering that it was Randy Orton that he cashed in on and that the cash in could've just as easily ended with "RKOOUTOFNOWHERE!!!" I do consider Miz's cash in to be a somewhat credible victory even with the circumstances. Just like you said, you're only as strong as you're booked. Miz should've had a strong victory in the rematches against Orton to prove that he wasn't a fluke instead of needing interference (even if it did give us A-Ry's awesome dive onto New Nexus). He should've had a real opponent instead of feuding with Lawler just as a means to transition him into a feud with Michael Cole. Yes! Had they kept everything the same except replacing Lawler with Morrison and given them a feud culminating with a match at the Chamber,(with Miz winning clean) that alone would have done wonders for Miz's reign
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Lila
El Dandy
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Post by Lila on Apr 18, 2014 14:47:56 GMT -5
Why did 2003 HHH travel in time to 2011? I too would like to know the answer to this. It's the creepiest thing since time travelling Daniel Bryan. He shaved to film those two movies we shall never speak of.
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Crimson
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Post by Crimson on Apr 18, 2014 14:51:16 GMT -5
Miz (and Mysterio, and Roman Reigns a year from now) are such perfect examples of people who were adored by the smarks, were booked badly in a top role, and then the smarks blamed them personally for their bad booking and forever turned on them and revised history to make it so Nuh uh I NEVER liked that guy! The insane thing about Miz's championship run is that he was an obvious face who was booked as a heel. He was the underdog who nobody believed in but he worked hard and overcame the machine... and was a bad guy for doing so. They went out of their way to give him that role. It could be legit the most bewildering booking I've ever seen of a champion. And both Orton and AJ Lee have been booked like that recently, proving someone hasn't learned their lesson. Heels are not supposed to overcome the odds, they are supposed to be the odds. Funny thing is, they previously booked a heel perfectly like that and it was during Kurt Angles first run as champion. Every month he was booked against someone who should have beaten him no problem but he can't finding some way to sneak a win or cheat, and it pissed everyone off. lawl You can book an undeserving champion while still making them a competent heel, it's just that everything about Miz's run was done to launch other angles. (Miz's feud with Lawler was really about Lawler vs Cole. Miz's feud with Orton was used to launch CM Punk vs Orotn, Miz's feud with Cena was self-explanatory.) So yeah, I do find it unfair to completely blame Miz on his run being lackluster.
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