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Post by Hit Girl on Apr 19, 2014 7:27:56 GMT -5
"It's just a show" is a cue to not take it seriously. Entertainment is subjective. Outside of Mrjl, I haven't seen anybody try to argue that pro wrestling is logical and able to be backed using facts. I argue pro wrestling is internally logical. Only through your own manufactured explanations which themselves are rarely, if ever, logical.
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Post by Zombie Mod is not a ghoul. on Apr 19, 2014 10:04:42 GMT -5
ok people stop with singling out mrjl.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Apr 19, 2014 11:11:48 GMT -5
ok people stop with singling out mrjl. thank you
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Apr 20, 2014 12:17:21 GMT -5
That's amazing to me that anyone would think that in today's day and age. There's a lot you could criticize Cena's character on, but after this many years of great matches, his in ring work isn't one of them. it doesn't surprise me. I don't think many Cena haters are as upset with "inconsistency" as you and a few here are. I think there's people who cling to the idea he can't work, or don't like he tries to appeal to people that aren't them, or that he's getting a push when people they like aren't. I mean there's been plenty of people who use humor in serious situations. In the later stages of his career who Mick Foley appeared as was just based on his mood seemingly a ton of times. Remember goofy Kurt Angle? Austin went from invading Brian Pillman's house to spraying Vince and crew with beer. If they really disliked his humor then why is the worst chants against him during his matches? People chant random stuff all the time. How hard would it be to get a bunch of people to chant lame repeatedly during a photoshop thing or "You're not fun-ny, clap clap, clap-clap-clap" That's amazing to me that anyone would think that in today's day and age. There's a lot you could criticize Cena's character on, but after this many years of great matches, his in ring work isn't one of them. Well, I still have issues with Cena's selling, but whether or not one wants to call that a part of his 'in ring work' is up for debate! all the top superhero faces do it. He just needs a hulk up.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 28,891
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Post by Sephiroth on Apr 20, 2014 12:34:13 GMT -5
Look up vids of the post Mania RAW from last year. That whole opening segment was practically Cena trolling the audience and IWC
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Post by hunterbusax on Apr 21, 2014 19:11:45 GMT -5
Wrong thread.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Apr 21, 2014 22:19:13 GMT -5
That's amazing to me that anyone would think that in today's day and age. There's a lot you could criticize Cena's character on, but after this many years of great matches, his in ring work isn't one of them. it doesn't surprise me. I don't think many Cena haters are as upset with "inconsistency" as you and a few here are. I think there's people who cling to the idea he can't work, or don't like he tries to appeal to people that aren't them, or that he's getting a push when people they like aren't. I mean there's been plenty of people who use humor in serious situations. In the later stages of his career who Mick Foley appeared as was just based on his mood seemingly a ton of times. Remember goofy Kurt Angle? Austin went from invading Brian Pillman's house to spraying Vince and crew with beer. If they really disliked his humor then why is the worst chants against him during his matches? People chant random stuff all the time. How hard would it be to get a bunch of people to chant lame repeatedly during a photoshop thing or "You're not fun-ny, clap clap, clap-clap-clap" None of those guys used jokes in super serious feuds or to respond to tragedy or betrayal they may have suffered. They got deadly serious. Foley turned into Cactus Jack when getting the short-end against HHH, and HHH sold that with terror. Kurt Angle's entire deal was that he was a square who wasn't trying to be funny, but was just absurdly dorky -- yet, once the bell rang, he was all business -- like the way he decimated Shane at KOTR 2001. And I never saw Austin segments as "comedy". They were entertaining water cooler moments wherein he used props to kick ass and humiliate Vince and company. But most of the time, he was near homicidal in his actions. (like dropping HHH in the car from the crane). The problem with the writing of Cena's character is that he uses poorly timed cornball humor rather than properly emotionally reacting to threat or danger. And it's not his fault. It's the writing team, who insists on getting their "stuff" in -- even when it makes no logical or even emotional sense. In the entire history of the WWE, the crux of all rivalry has been wanting to see the babyface get physical revenge on the dastardly heel for their actions or prove them wrong. I mean, Earthquake breaking Hulk's ribs was a big deal because A) Hulk sold it like death. and B) It was treated as deadly serious. Hogan didn't make jokes, he didn't cut promos making fun of Earthquake's appearance. He simply trained, came back, and kicked ass. I wish Cena would do the same. Because if the Cena approach to character writing existed during past eras, many angles lauded as being historically iconic would be ruined. I have no idea why WWE tried to reinvent the wheel when it worked fine (and better) before. I'd rather Cena just react to threat with appropriate and justified physicality, maintain unshakable resolve, and simply vanquish the bad guy when the time comes like a hero. Not wear ten different hats at once because WWE wants him to be everything and everyone simultaneously, despite it being contradictory to how a real human being would react. In real life, if you had a evil cult leader trying to expose you as being phony, your reply would be to tell them how you'll never break, and then back that up in the ring. That's it. You've won the war. (and he did). You wouldn't go out of your way to prove all the bad guy's (intended to be incorrect) criticisms of your character and personality true by being such an annoying , manufactured tool. People SHOULDN'T see Wyatt as the face here, but a lot are -- and that's because Cena is so irritatingly fake.
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JoDaNa1281
Crow T. Robot
Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender. #BLM
Posts: 40,127
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Post by JoDaNa1281 on Apr 21, 2014 22:22:37 GMT -5
"It's just a show" is a cue to not take it seriously. Entertainment is subjective. Outside of Mrjl, I haven't seen anybody try to argue that pro wrestling is logical and able to be backed using facts. But it's just as as easy to prove with demographics and ads during commercials who their audience is and it's plain to see that the "highbrow" demographic doesn't tune into see guys in their undies settle scores in front of 36 year old man children in NWO shirts and a classic WWF title over their shoulder. At its core, wrestling originated as a carny act. At the end of the day, it's about getting people to buy into the illusion that what they're watching play out is real. And for those that know it isn't, good for them. Hopefully it's fun. But I can tell the people who are displeased 80% of the time who spend a great portion of time posting on internet message boards with short "add-nothing" comments such as "awful. They usually are." Those people are in the great great great vocal minority. Take the "Cena isn't written logically" argument to a typical WWE fan and they'll smile politely, maybe giggle and ask which Ultimate Warrior died last week, the first one or second one. They'll probably also ask if you go to 411Mania, too. I hear Sting might challenge Undertaker at next year's Wrestlemania. It's wrestling. It's fun. If the Coen brothers start a promotion, link me to it..I'll sit front row. What is wrong with 411Mania?!? Justin Watry
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Apr 21, 2014 22:25:33 GMT -5
except the war isn't about physicality in this case, it's about who Cena is.
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metylerca
King Koopa
Loves Him Some Backstreet Boys.
Don't be alarmed.
Posts: 12,477
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Post by metylerca on Apr 21, 2014 22:37:39 GMT -5
What is wrong with 411Mania?!? Justin Watry AJ Grey
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JoDaNa1281
Crow T. Robot
Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender. #BLM
Posts: 40,127
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Post by JoDaNa1281 on Apr 21, 2014 22:46:17 GMT -5
At least Grey posts pictures of hot chicks(granted, that's all he does).
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Lancers
El Dandy
Oh you
Posts: 7,951
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Post by Lancers on Apr 21, 2014 22:46:26 GMT -5
Simply put, I'm burnt out of John Cena. It's nothing personal. In fact, I think his matches have been better lately. Still puts in all the effort you want to see. But I'm just tired of seeing him each week.
Even with new people to feud with, the storyline usually falls in certain categories. The monster who can't be stopped. The man trying to psych him out. The guy who will stop at nothing to beat Cena, including but not limited to, attacking John's dad. New faces, same predicaments and the same outcomes.
At least with Orton, you can make him an outright heel and feed off the crowd's negative energy. With Cena, this company has been frozen in their longstanding belief that he must be the good guy. Kids root for him. He sells merchandise. Visits sick children in hospitals. What Cena does is beyond measurable value to the company.
Cena's character has been stagnant for a long time. To put it into perspective, Hulkamania in the WWE ran from 1984 to 1993. Nine years. But most importantly, in an era where main eventers were only shown occasionally on syndication, the cornerstone of WWF programming in those days. Cable was still a relatively expensive, therefore second-tier medium for most of Hogan's reign. Cena, outside of being physically unable to perform, is pretty much a Monday night staple since 2005. Nine years. Almost every week. Cutting a promo that usually blends juvenile humor with words of defiance against his adversary of the month.
Turning Cena heel is really the only thing left he can do that makes him salvageable for me. And I know it's not happening. It's not that I want Cena heel for the sake of being heel. It's that there's literally nothing left for him to do as a goody two-shoes that hasn't been done about dozens of times before.
Hogan had a renaissance when he joined the nWo. It made the fans pine for him to return to his roots years later. Same with Jericho. He went serious for a few years, then came back and he reverted back to his Y2J ways.
Cena undoubtedly has the tools to make a great bad guy. He can knock it out of the park, but the WWE won't pull that trigger. They're perfectly content with the status quo. And from my own personal perspective, that status quo has made me completely disinterested in John Cena's future in professional wrestling.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Apr 21, 2014 23:42:02 GMT -5
except the war isn't about physicality in this case, it's about who Cena is. And he won that war at WrestleMania. I have no idea what the point is anymore. But I know, the fans seem to be strangely siding with Satan here, so that speaks to how the Cena character is perceived.
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Brood Lone Wolf Funker
Ozymandius
Got fined anyway. Possibly a Moose
James Franco is the white Donald Glover
Posts: 61,847
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Post by Brood Lone Wolf Funker on Apr 22, 2014 5:30:01 GMT -5
He even said last week We don't want him to have another push
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Apr 22, 2014 6:46:06 GMT -5
Cena will reveal that he's been here the whole time. He was WarriorThug4Cena from the very beginning. Or even better, Cena was Doytch all along!
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Post by Hit Girl on Apr 22, 2014 7:09:09 GMT -5
except the war isn't about physicality in this case, it's about who Cena is. Yes, I'm sure his resolve and loyalty will be deeply challenged and put to the test before he walks out onto the stage smiling and making bad breath jokes again.
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