Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 28,891
Member is Online
|
Post by Sephiroth on Apr 19, 2014 8:32:29 GMT -5
Fraternistic initiations have and always will involve things that outside of its own context would look appalling to the outside world. If you want to apply 'real world' scenarios and consequences to such situations then you'd need to be consistent with it and insist that every big brother who rubs his knuckles on the head of his younger sibling be charged with assault - as that's what it is within the context of 'if he did that to a stranger/outside' etc. Lines and boundaries when it comes to initiation or family or any other ritual or activity within a group are often different to the outside. If someone poured beer on your head in the street it's assault, if they poured beer on your head as part of an initiation ceremony to get into the football team - it isn't. Basically this. Wrestling is a closed community in a number of respects. This story is basically JBL hazing Edge and Esge laughed it off. Some people would not. I've heard simar stories about football camps and military basic training.
|
|
|
Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Apr 19, 2014 8:49:55 GMT -5
Fraternistic initiations have and always will involve things that outside of its own context would look appalling to the outside world. If you want to apply 'real world' scenarios and consequences to such situations then you'd need to be consistent with it and insist that every big brother who rubs his knuckles on the head of his younger sibling be charged with assault - as that's what it is within the context of 'if he did that to a stranger/outside' etc. Lines and boundaries when it comes to initiation or family or any other ritual or activity within a group are often different to the outside. If someone poured beer on your head in the street it's assault, if they poured beer on your head as part of an initiation ceremony to get into the football team - it isn't. Except that those initiations are also completely bullshit which shouldn't happen either, and we aren't talking about pouring a beer on someone's head, we're talking about coming within an inch of shoving a finger up a guy's ass, which you can genuinely get jail time for.
|
|
|
Post by Straight Edge Scrotum on Apr 19, 2014 11:16:20 GMT -5
Man, that's HILARIOUS!
|
|
|
Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Apr 19, 2014 11:37:01 GMT -5
Fraternistic initiations have and always will involve things that outside of its own context would look appalling to the outside world. If you want to apply 'real world' scenarios and consequences to such situations then you'd need to be consistent with it and insist that every big brother who rubs his knuckles on the head of his younger sibling be charged with assault - as that's what it is within the context of 'if he did that to a stranger/outside' etc. Lines and boundaries when it comes to initiation or family or any other ritual or activity within a group are often different to the outside. If someone poured beer on your head in the street it's assault, if they poured beer on your head as part of an initiation ceremony to get into the football team - it isn't. That is a creepy way of saying "Certain situations let people get away with awful things, and traditions ensure that'll keep happening."
|
|
|
Post by frogsplash45 on Apr 19, 2014 13:15:46 GMT -5
You don't get what I'm saying. We all draw our lines, and we all define what places or actions might be construed as sexual. A tight hug or a foot rub could mean nothing... or they could mean something. Nobody has a right to declare a set of intrinsic parameters for everybody. Ultimately, a victim can only be a victim if that person feels impacted by it. Even if it involves touching a butt. I think you might be missing the forest for the trees, here. Sure, an act can be innocent or not depending on the people involved, within reason: If I say "The clerk at the store wore a red shirt when he handed me my change, and that's outside my limits, so he sexually harassed me!" then I wouldn't have a very compelling case, because it's too bizarre and idiosyncratic. But that's not the point. If JBL and Edge (and whoever else were his targets) had some kind of consensual sexual relationship that involved soapy showers, no one would have a problem with it. But that's not what was happening here. What was happening was, social pressure (wanting to keep a job; wanting to be accepted by coworkers; wanting not to inspire worse hazing down the line) led people to believe putting up with Bradshaw's behavior was worth it. Or, at the very least, it led them to not complain about it. If you ask a victim if they "feel harassed," one big reason they might say no is, if they say yes, "Holy shit, I have to face the fact that I was sexually harassed!" Things aren't as clear-cut as you're making them out. So sure, Bradshaw's behavior was "within Edge's boundaries", in the sense that he didn't run away, and in the sense that he laughed it off afterwards. But Edge's boundaries were set by the larger situation, the social pressure. And Bradshaw knew perfectly well that this pressure existed, and it let him get away with doing things he wouldn't have been able to do in other situations. This is all moot anyway, because at least one person has quit the company because of Bradshaw's shower antics, so it's not like everything's been all hunky-dory. The very first part of my original post states that we can still draw certain fair assumptions from this anecdote, so don't act like I'm saying there's nothing indicative about this story.
|
|
|
Post by bestthateverdidit on Apr 19, 2014 15:58:16 GMT -5
I asked JBL about this - about Duke "the Dumpster" Drosse - on his FB page and he denied it and blocked me.
|
|
|
Post by Thunderbolt on Apr 19, 2014 17:03:48 GMT -5
EDGE IS A HOMO
|
|
bob
Salacious Crumb
The "other" Bob. FOC COURSE!
started the Madness Wars, Proudly the #1 Nana Hater on FAN
Posts: 78,273
|
Post by bob on Apr 19, 2014 23:19:57 GMT -5
|
|
fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
FAN Idol All-Star: FAN Idol Season X and *Gavel* 2x Judges' Throwdown winner
Tribe has spoken for 2024 Mets
Posts: 38,913
|
Post by fw91 on Apr 19, 2014 23:23:50 GMT -5
yeah I can get hazing and ribbing. but that? why would JBL want to do something like that, if he isn't gay?
|
|
Essential1
Hank Scorpio
Sigs/Avatars cannot exceed 1MB
Posts: 6,080
|
Post by Essential1 on Apr 19, 2014 23:39:19 GMT -5
I always doubted these stories....Until I came across this gem.
|
|
|
Post by Piccolo on Apr 27, 2014 22:39:20 GMT -5
yeah I can get hazing and ribbing. but that? why would JBL want to do something like that, if he isn't gay? Because sexual violation is humiliating. Simple as. Another example from Greek life: between adults, spanking is a sexual activity, but frat boys spank each other with paddles. They're not all gay with spanking fetishes, they're just looking for something that will break down the pride of their initiates.
|
|
nm
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,081
|
Post by nm on Apr 27, 2014 22:40:22 GMT -5
why is there just something so comical about a man casually raping his co worker in the shower as apart of "paying his dues" not that JBL actually did that or anything . just the thought though. every time one of these threads come up i am just laughing my ass off (bar and grill)
|
|
|
Post by Hurbster on Apr 27, 2014 22:54:40 GMT -5
All this hazing stuff, what is it with you Americans ? Is it the frat society you have in college ? I have real trouble getting my head about what they are. Are they clubs or something ? I joined the Rock and Real Ale Society when I was at Uni - does that count ?
|
|
|
Post by Straight Edge Scrotum on Apr 27, 2014 23:33:11 GMT -5
Another sign of how profoundly messed up the wrestling world is that this was considered acceptable. Have to wonder if those days are over or if this thing still happens under the radar. You clearly missed Wrestletaint.gov's mindblowing expose on backstage bukkake events that are being bankrolled by big money benefactors. It goes all the way up the corporate ladder straight to the top. This stuff is deranged. Medical personnel aren't allowed to operate a stomach pump. Vomiting can even get you fired. It's outrageous! If that's not sick enough, they even have a women's division too. You'll never look at Aksana the same way again. Your signature makes this entire comment that much more hilarious.
|
|
zeez
Patti Mayonnaise
Yeah. That's right.
Posts: 32,702
|
Post by zeez on Apr 27, 2014 23:39:09 GMT -5
Well, after reading this thread, I now know what sexual harassment is. At least I think I do. Either way, I'm probably going to hear from HR in the morning.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2014 23:44:49 GMT -5
I prefer to think that every wrestling legend happened exactly as we know it for silliness purposes and refuse to think otherwise.
|
|
|
Post by Danimal on Apr 28, 2014 0:53:28 GMT -5
A chick putting-up with groping because she wants to keep her job certainly doesn't make said groping alright. Same goes with guys having to put-up with BS or have their name be mud. Matsuda breaking Hogan's leg and JBL giving guys the bad touch in the shower is garbage. I can understand testing the new guy some and/or some good-humored hazing but don't get ridiculous.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2014 2:16:48 GMT -5
A chick putting-up with groping because she wants to keep her job certainly doesn't make said groping alright. Same goes with guys having to put-up with BS or have their name be mud. Matsuda breaking Hogan's leg and JBL giving guys the bad touch in the shower is garbage. I can understand testing the new guy some and/or some good-humored hazing but DON'T GET RIDICULOUS
|
|
|
Post by crashmatsbazz on Apr 28, 2014 3:10:38 GMT -5
All this hazing stuff, what is it with you Americans ? Is it the frat society you have in college ? I have real trouble getting my head about what they are. Are they clubs or something ? I joined the Rock and Real Ale Society when I was at Uni - does that count ? This! just leave other people alone, i've always thought i'd love to be a wrestler, just not in the WWF/E between Vince, Pat Patterson, Mel Phillips, JBL, Bob Holly and others (Brooklyn Brawler) why would anyone want to work here? Rapists and Bullies
|
|
|
Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Apr 28, 2014 5:35:08 GMT -5
yeah I can get hazing and ribbing. but that? why would JBL want to do something like that, if he isn't gay? his sexual orientation has nothing to do with it at all. hazing is more about seeing if someone will put up with some arbitrary and childish humiliation. I'm fairly certain 99% of the gay population find this kind of thing just as appalling as anyone else would.
|
|