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Post by blake6905 on Apr 23, 2014 8:26:55 GMT -5
Which type of company do you prefer?
It seems early Nwa/wcw used "the chase" method where the heel holds the title and the top baby faces constantly chase them. When they finally win it, they don't hold it very long or turn heel themselves (Luger).
Early WWF used "overcoming the odds" as the top baby face Hogan held the title off and on for 6 years with a few hiccups in between.
So which do you prefer?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2014 8:57:17 GMT -5
I like the chase where the heels are constantly getting utterly destroyed, but still manage to sneak away ahead - see Austin/McMahon.
I don't like the chase where the face is completely decimated at every turn by a "god mode" heel, in the hopes that he might win one eventually - see Daniel Bryan.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Apr 23, 2014 15:49:15 GMT -5
The chase, definitely. Seeing a long-denied babyface finally win the title is a great moment for a wrestling a fan, it makes me mark out. Seeing my guy successfully retain yet again isn't anywhere near as special.
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mrjl
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Post by mrjl on Apr 23, 2014 17:39:09 GMT -5
overcoming the odds
the chase just makes me want to scream most of the time
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Post by austinariesfan88 on Apr 23, 2014 18:47:26 GMT -5
I like the chase, seeing a heel who cheats and does every dastardly thing he can to hold the tile, finally lose it,is the best like when Roode finally lost to Aries.
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comahan
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Post by comahan on Apr 23, 2014 18:54:21 GMT -5
Definitely the chase.
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Post by angryfan on Apr 23, 2014 18:59:21 GMT -5
The chase, to me, works best with a Ric Flair heel, who will get destroyed but manage to guile his way into keeping the title.
A heel that gets his ass kicked and never wins, but keeps his belt through running away or DQ's does his job. He makes you hate him, and gets his ass handed to him on a nightly basis. He keeps the belt, he keeps his delusion, but if you pay to see the heel get beat down and bloodied, then you get your monies worth every single night.
The overcoming the odds, while the babyface wins every night, you run through challengers way too fast, and you wind up with recycled matches where you have to work harder to suspend disbelief since the odds have already been overcome with a challenger after the first match.
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nisidhe
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Post by nisidhe on Apr 23, 2014 22:49:52 GMT -5
While there is definite entertainment value in the chase model, there are two major drawbacks. First, particularly with a long-time heel champion whose continued triumphs make the chasers look weak, gates and merchandise sales (for all participants, not just the champ or the chasers) can decline as fans grow tired of the feud. Second, it allows some promotions to slide on a weak undercard. WWF, during the mid- and late 1980s with Hogan more or less securely at the top, was able to run two touring rosters simultaneously on the tag belts, the I-C belt and any high-profile grudge feuds running at the time. What you had was a resilient business model which protected the world champion for higher-value markets and increased gates and merch for everyone running those tours.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 23, 2014 22:57:51 GMT -5
I prefer that the Chaser becomes the odds guy, since it is less easy to do the second model for long, since champions are expected to get onto TV at least weekly, unlike Hogan who was usually not on free TV much. But, if you do nothing but Chases, it can get hellishly boring.
By alternating to a degree, you can cover some of the weaknesses of either model.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2014 23:11:28 GMT -5
The chase, to me, works best with a Ric Flair heel, who will get destroyed but manage to guile his way into keeping the title. A heel that gets his ass kicked and never wins, but keeps his belt through running away or DQ's does his job. He makes you hate him, and gets his ass handed to him on a nightly basis. He keeps the belt, he keeps his delusion, but if you pay to see the heel get beat down and bloodied, then you get your monies worth every single night. This, so much. That's what was so great about heels like Flair. You knew they were going to get destroyed, but they never let the face completely win, and then they'd come out next time bragging and lying about what happened to keep their heat. I was hoping WWE would learn something from the MASSIVE pop Bryan got when he attacked HHH at the announce table. |
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Bub (BLM)
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Apr 23, 2014 23:19:15 GMT -5
I like the chase where the heels are constantly getting utterly destroyed, but still manage to sneak away ahead - see Austin/McMahon. I don't like the chase where the face is completely decimated at every turn by a "god mode" heel, in the hopes that he might win one eventually - see Daniel Bryan. My feelings exactly. I love an unstoppable face who keeps getting screwed out of the title, but still kicks the ass of his rivals. I absolutely loathe an unstoppable face who holds the title and gets the upper hand in every situation and steamrolls everyone. That's what separates characters like Steve Austin and The Rock from John Cena and 1996 Shawn Michaels (ugh). |
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Post by kingoftheindies on Apr 24, 2014 9:08:34 GMT -5
I prefer the chase. The issue with a recent chase (Daniel Bryan) was that the ways to screw Bryan out of the title just ended up getting insanely convoluted. How they got Kane into the Chamber, how they had Michaels screw over Bryan, the whole Big Show knocking both Bryan and Orton out. Outside interference isn't bad an can work even now, but it has to run smoothly like the McMahon-Helmsley faction or the nWo stuff. You can't do things like Triple H during the reign of terror where you are both the Chickenshit heel but also the baddest man on the planet in the ring.
The over coming the odds needs a face that can get sympathy from the fans, but also it requires the right storylines. Watching old WWF stuff during Hulkamania, it didn't matter who the opponent was Hulk would make them look like a million bucks; Bundy, Andre, the Twin Towers, Earthquake, Savage ect. He didn't just brush them off as nothing, and they actually played up injuries in a lot of cases. It's an issue with Cena that they haven't really figured out with any consistency. The face overcoming the odds actually needs to look like he's in peril.
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Post by king1836 on Apr 24, 2014 9:26:26 GMT -5
Overcoming The Odds
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AdamAFL was sooooo wrong
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Post by AdamAFL was sooooo wrong on Apr 24, 2014 9:43:54 GMT -5
Both are necessary. The chase just worked really well for Bryan. Now he can have the other option for his title reign. Otherwise you end up with the chase not actually meaning anything.
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Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on Apr 24, 2014 11:13:33 GMT -5
Overcoming the odds. If you do the chase for too long, you risk pissing off your audience.
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Sam Punk
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Post by Sam Punk on Apr 24, 2014 12:35:59 GMT -5
I prefer overcoming the odds. What fun is it to watch the villain win all the time? I can see that happen every day in the real world. There are so many entertainment options out there for me to wait months to see the face finally win one.
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Post by N E O G E O B O Y S on Apr 24, 2014 13:05:15 GMT -5
I enjoy both since you need them in equal measures to not get burned out
It was cool to see the rock being screwed for the title in the 2000, even when he won it he lost it quick, but then he recovered and got a lengthy run (for attitude era standars, that's like 2-3 months?) that was a nice balance since I saw my hero at the top but at the same time I was pulling for him to win the big one
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Post by JTG Fan on Apr 24, 2014 13:08:45 GMT -5
It may be a copout answer, but the ideal is a mix of both. If you lean too heavily in either direction, the fans can get disenchanted. Stone Cold in 98-99 handled this pretty much perfectly. Austin finally wins the title at WrestleMania, has a brief setback at KOTR, regains the champion, gets screwed out of it, has to go thru Undertaker to chase Vince and The Rock, and has to wait until WrestleMania to finally reclaim his crown. They seemed to be following the same formula again later in before Austin's deteriorating health forced plans to change.
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