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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Apr 27, 2014 0:19:12 GMT -5
There's a number of factors. For one, it's been very hard for wrestlers at that level to get a good spot on Mania due to part-time special attractions (Rock, Brock, Taker, Triple H, Jericho, Batista) having big matches there. Another factor is that they were out-performed and out-hustled, first by CM Punk and then by Daniel Bryan. These two could easily have been in that same group of seven you mentioned in the first post. Also, it would be pretty hard for ALL (or even most) of those to remain top-level stars, simply because it's hard to sustain that many top guys. Only so many people can be going after the main titles (now just one title). While they aren't going for the main title, they have to fight each other. Those guys should be fighting each other. As much as we make fun of Sheamus/Del Rio or Sheamus/Christian for "never ending" they the guys on that level should be having fairly high profile programs with each other to keep each other semi-relevant. Sheamus, Del Rio, Ziggler, Miz, Christian, and Henry should take turns carrying SmackDown even without the World Heavyweight Championship. And when they're not crossing paths, they should be having good one off TV matches with the lower level guys on the roster and making them "look good in defeat" instead of edging them out off of TV.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Apr 27, 2014 4:31:05 GMT -5
What happened to the guys from around 2010-2012 who were supposed to be the next generation of stars? The guys they were giving titles to left and right and really pushing are barely relevant anymore. Guys like Del Rio, Miz, Sheamus, Ziggler and Swagger are just filler now and even upper midcard guys who were popular like R-Truth and Kofi are being treated like local unknown jobbers, if any of these guys left or got released would it change the product at all? So what happened? Was it the rise of the NXT stars and three man factions? Were they getting stale? Were they any good in the first place? Do any of them have a future? Was the 2010-2012 class of new stars just a lineup of people who just weren't good enough? This has nothing to do with the thread, but Ryback's nodding just synced up perfectly with the drums on this Sonic Youth song I'm listening to and it was f***ing terrifying.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Apr 27, 2014 4:36:55 GMT -5
Sheamus has a lot left in the can. Turn him heel and make him the Edge to Bryan's Cena. Congratulations you've just made both of them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2014 19:18:00 GMT -5
Sheamus is fine. He's going to turn heel soon and feud with Bryan so he's good to go. He's in a permanent fixture somehow from this point on. He's going the Jericho route meaning if he's not in the IC scene he'll be above and potentially main eventing depending on the situation. If you're not a major main eventer like Cena, that might be the best you can do.
Kofi is the only guy I feel bad for. He has talent, he does the promo schedule, he's dedicated to the business and he's popular but he's just never getting that shot. First was the Orton thing and since then he's given spots in Rumbles and Chambers, he's been in title matches (gimmick matches) but really that is it for him. Big Show said during the end of 2012 that Kofi's one of the next to move up in an interview, Punk said he was trying to get Kofi or Bryan moved up before they picked Ryback to go against him, he wanted one of them to face him for the belt. Kofi's pretty popular and has major backing but it has never happened.
Sad.
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kidglov3s
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Post by kidglov3s on Apr 27, 2014 20:09:48 GMT -5
It's never good to be coming up at the end of a regime. NXT guys are naturally going to be favored in HHH's WWE over OVW/FCW guys.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Apr 27, 2014 22:36:12 GMT -5
It's just that death of the midcard everyone's always talking about. If the WWE booked people in real feuds and hadn't trained the audience to not care about anything but WHO'S GONNA BE THE HUGE STAR???!!!? then all those guys would just be putting on entertaining TV and it wouldn't matter if they were "the future" or not.
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Post by ronnie2hotty on Apr 28, 2014 11:50:12 GMT -5
Sheamus is still a good hand. He has just been booked rather stagnant since he returned, but he can still go in the ring when given the chance. His matches with Del Rio and (the pre-authority angle) Orton have all been solid, just not spectacular. But he had a fantastic match with Batista a few weeks ago. I just wish creative would get him away from this chuckle-chuckle-har-har comedy character that is his current version.
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Crimson
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Post by Crimson on Apr 28, 2014 12:02:00 GMT -5
Kofi is the only guy I feel bad for. He has talent, he does the promo schedule, he's dedicated to the business and he's popular but he's just never getting that shot. First was the Orton thing and since then he's given spots in Rumbles and Chambers, he's been in title matches (gimmick matches) but really that is it for him. Big Show said during the end of 2012 that Kofi's one of the next to move up in an interview, Punk said he was trying to get Kofi or Bryan moved up before they picked Ryback to go against him, he wanted one of them to face him for the belt. Kofi's pretty popular and has major backing but it has never happened. Sad. I'll never understand why they stopped Kofi's push the way that they did. If it was really over StupidGate (a single blown spot on Raw) then that is extremely dumb and petty. Now he's in the same boat as Ziggler where they're both used to job out to the latest up and coming heel.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2014 12:20:41 GMT -5
Kofi is the only guy I feel bad for. He has talent, he does the promo schedule, he's dedicated to the business and he's popular but he's just never getting that shot. First was the Orton thing and since then he's given spots in Rumbles and Chambers, he's been in title matches (gimmick matches) but really that is it for him. Big Show said during the end of 2012 that Kofi's one of the next to move up in an interview, Punk said he was trying to get Kofi or Bryan moved up before they picked Ryback to go against him, he wanted one of them to face him for the belt. Kofi's pretty popular and has major backing but it has never happened. Sad. I'll never understand why they stopped Kofi's push the way that they did. If it was really over StupidGate (a single blown spot on Raw) then that is extremely dumb and petty. Now he's in the same boat as Ziggler where they're both used to job out to the latest up and coming heel. Seriously, let alone it was from Orton the so-called "bad boy" of the wwe.
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Post by sportatorium on Apr 28, 2014 14:37:13 GMT -5
All mentioned have been given world title reigns.
Del Rio- had the rug pulled out on his momentum when he didn't go over Edge. Never really came all the way back. Was painfully overshadowed as champion when he was stuck in the Cena/Punk program.
Sheamus- should find a way to speak up more & not get a terrible king of the ring outfit, an American flag theme as US champ and a completely annoying babyface character. He puts on great matches & could be much farther along than he is.
Miz- Shouldn't have been a main event guy & really shouldn't have been anywhere around Cena/Rock. Could have been a catalyst heel for the tag division.
Ziggler- awesome worker, if only his babyface promos were as good as his twitter rants. I also believe they are terrified to push him too much with his concussion history.
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Abdullah
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Post by Abdullah on Apr 28, 2014 14:43:04 GMT -5
I'm surprised people are saying Ziggler doesn't have enough; to still get chants in his current status is impressive to say the least.
Just to be realistic, we could be asking this question about Cesaro, Bray, and Shield as solo stars. Just because they're getting pushed right now doesn't mean they'll work out in the long run. They should by all accounts, but you know WWE...
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Apr 28, 2014 17:30:07 GMT -5
I think Barrett not being mentioned in the OP says a lot, because until a few months ago, he could've easily been branded as much a pathetic failure as Swagger. Massive push in the same time period followed by plummeting into the midcard, with two subsequent lesser pushes in ensuing years that were largely met with indifference and didn't last. Only now they've finally repackaged him in a way that plays to his strengths, and he's got some real momentum again.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2014 17:45:52 GMT -5
There can only be one top star in the company. Everyone else is just filler.
Problem is John Cena hasn't figured out that he's just filler yet.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Apr 28, 2014 17:59:43 GMT -5
Here's my take.
The next generation of stars need to be able to work with established guyS who can put them over when the time is right. When Austin reached the top in WWE he was working with Bret,Shawn,Taker and then he got above their level and was able to work with and get over Rock,Kane,HHH etc. Then those guys were able to elevate guys like Kurt Angle and Edge and Jericho who in turn could work with the those guys on the same level and help to get over Orton and Batista and Lesnar. Now there's just Cena. Maybe Bryan but fans want him protected. Cena goes out and does clean jobs. Cena at least does semi clean jobs. You know what? In most cases it doesn't matter. Because WWE doesn't have another name to feed the rising star to. Which at the very least makes it look like WWE has given up on them.
Lets go back to Stone Cold and remember the ppv following his turn at Wrestlemania 13
He beat Bret by DQ the next month. He lost to Undertaker in a title match the following month. Then he fought HBK in a match that ended up in a double DQ. So in four months on PPV following his big turn he didn't win a single match by pinfall or submission. But no one would say WWE wasn't pushing him and no one would say he opponents weren't working with him to get him to their level. Now that isn't possible. You can have someone have a great match with Cena but then what?
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Post by MiLo Duck on Apr 28, 2014 18:21:49 GMT -5
This thread made me go back and start rewatching all the PPVs from 2009. I'm starting to look at all the guys like Kofi, Swagger, and Miz and how much better they looked back then as opposed to now. I think another big problem perhaps, specifically with those three, is this odd series of forced de-pushes that basically took some credible contenders and made them garbage for reasons, that to me, had little to do with the product.
Orton's spazz out, somehow not being able to use a pretty talented big guy with a good heal gimmick, and whatever reason they decided to turn The Miz. I understand the "back to square one, s*** happens" mentality, but it strikes me as more than a little childish and now the product suffers for it. Its not a matter of if they have anybody, but if they can get over their weird grudges, dust off the toys they already have in their sandbox, and just USE them
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