Crimson
Hank Scorpio
Thank you DWade
Posts: 6,511
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Post by Crimson on Jul 8, 2014 11:10:04 GMT -5
They'll keep doing it until he shits the bed in a big singles match. WWE may be stubborn, but they don't want a turd of a match to headline WrestleMania.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Jul 8, 2014 11:24:27 GMT -5
I agree. Roman Reigns should be getting a stop/start/stop/start push with 50/50 booking and goofy comedy segments. It's worked so well to build new stars in the past decade. PS- It doesn't feel organic because we know it's not organic. But no real push is. Steve Austin is often given as an example but really when one of the top guys in the company wants to work with you and put you over pretty early and when the owner of the company clearly is a fan of yours (go back and listen to how much announcer Vince put over Austin even back during the Ringmaster months) your gonna get over. All of these pushes are the combination of the talent, the booking and the fans. Yeah, I don't get this "organic push" talk. How can a push be considered "organic"? An organic push is one where the crowd chooses a star to get behind, and THEN the office catches wind of that popularity and follows suit with a (sometimes reluctant) push because of that demand. As for the opposite: WWE has guys who they WANT to be superstars in most cases from the moment they sign them, for reasons stemming from size to look to presence, etc., even if said acts come in cold. WWE, in those cases, then does everything they can to poochie these guys up and make them into stars through booking tricks, key wins, and audience manipulation (like commentators saying buzzwords or trying to program pavlovian response and reaction.). Guys like Diesel, Lashey, etc. fit the classic "inorganic push". They either were pushed, because, like with Lashley, Vince creamed himself over his size, or because a one time reaction, like Diesel at Rumble 94, gets the wheels in Vince's head moving. Other than that, there was really no appeal until the office used their tricks. Classic "organic" pushes are those guys often never intended to be any more than what they initially started out as. But without initial office favortism and support, somehow they built a groundswell of support. People like Bryan, Mick Foley, Steve Austin, etc. Basically organics are initially fan chosen. While the opposite are initially office picked.
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Post by Kitty Shamrocks on Jul 8, 2014 11:55:34 GMT -5
I don't care what they do with Reigns. Have him win the belts tomorrow, for all I care. Just stop telling me how awesome and powerful he is and that I should tweet about him and OH MY GOD, HE'S STARING AT HHH, WHAT A MOMENT, OH MY
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Post by Mayonnaise on Jul 8, 2014 12:12:17 GMT -5
When a simple stare down with him and Hunter can get a whole arena to chant "This is awesome", you are not going too fast. Despite the crazed belief some seem to have, Roman is easily the number 2 guy in company right now (Bryan is not there so do not bother mentioning him) and to not use that and see where it takes ya would be dumb as f***.
Maybe they get to him v. Hunter and it all falls apart forcing WWE back to step one but that is far better than ignoring the poor guy and the vast freaking majority of the audience.
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Post by dreamer75 on Jul 8, 2014 12:21:01 GMT -5
They'll keep doing it until he shits the bed in a big singles match. WWE may be stubborn, but they don't want a turd of a match to headline WrestleMania. In fairness that was The Rock vs Cena: the prelude and everyone knew it. Miz was just there
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jul 8, 2014 12:26:28 GMT -5
Until people start believing it so that Reigns doesn't take the spot that they want Bryan to hold Bryan is more popular than Reigns. That may change, and I hope for Roman's sake it does, but it's still the case right now. So to imply like its some fringe fans being butt-hurt is silly. Reigns isn't even close to being as over as Bryan was with the majority. He has a log way to go. And the real test will be when Bryan's back, and WWE has to make a decision between both. I'll admit it. I AM "butthurt" over Reigns possibly getting Bryan's spot.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 13:26:26 GMT -5
I remember the tongue-bath Reigns got on commentary when he was with The Shield, I can just imagine what it is now that they've all gone their separate ways.
Whatever though. As long as he doesn't shit the bed in these upcoming matches, all the WWE has to do is not botch the push. I could go either way because I never had much emotional investment in Reigns. I mean, if they're going to go forward with him then he damn sure better be able to put on a singles match I want to watch. That's all I care about really.
What I don't like is this weird undercurrent of schadenfreude I feel behind some of this talk about people getting upset and leery of D. Bryan Danielson's position on the card now that Reigns gets the push.
It's like...dude... The entire reason D. Bryan Danielson got to that spot is because fans tried tried their damnedest for so long to where the only result that wasn't going to lead to the WM audience storming the main event and setting fire to the ring was him winning the title. It took months of the crowd shitting on PPV matches, chanting during promos, literally months of making it clear that it was D. Bryan or they riot.
You know how much effort and emotional investment that took to hijack the show and force WWE to even do that? You damn skippy the people who forced the WWE to take notice are paranoid about what happens to D. Bryan when he returns and I think it's a petty thing to do to paint those people as whiny/paranoid/entitled/irrational/etc. for feeling that way.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 13:30:46 GMT -5
I don't hate Roman but he is in fact being pushed too fast. He also needs some more moves.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jul 8, 2014 13:35:20 GMT -5
They'll keep doing it until he shits the bed in a big singles match. WWE may be stubborn, but they don't want a turd of a match to headline WrestleMania. Yeah. But that's Cena and Miz. That's a turd that's been rounded off, smoothed out (like river rocks) and lacquered.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 13:40:45 GMT -5
I'm not worried about Reigns possibly taking Bryan's spot.
Why?
The fans won't allow it. Even if Reigns is popular, Bryan's still the most over guy who has gone through far more than Reigns has. Reigns also has the strap attached to his back so no matter how far he's being pushed, in the long run the fans will choose the underdog, hardworking, blue collar guy like them compared to Reigns. Even if they don't dislike Reigns, they'll naturally go to Bryan. It isn't as if the WWE can somehow get the Reigns booking correct after it's failed with countless other superstars throughout the years. Doesn't work that way.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jul 8, 2014 13:54:12 GMT -5
I think the wise thing for WWE to do is just push Reigns until (or if) the live crowds start demanidng that Bryan takes his spot. Roman's already gotten as over as he can in the midcard. Oddly enough, it might be better for him to get a mega face push and then be forced into a heel turn because of YESaMania, than waiting another year going for an IC or US title that needs to have its prestige built back up first (Reigns, as of now, would be above those two belts). If he gets over in the world title scene, WWE's got a new megaface. If they start booing him, WWE's got a new megaheel. Unless he's ready to go balls to the wall with charity work, I don't see him getting a Cena push in spite of a (yet to occur) negative reaction. Him getting Batista'ed might be a blessing in disguise. WWE has to dare to fail in order to succeed with Reigns. They'll miss 100% of the shots they don't take. {Spoiler}{Spoiler}
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jul 8, 2014 14:01:33 GMT -5
I think they should just save the spot for Bryan. I worry that the fans won't allow anyone to get over on any level unless Bryan's spot at the top is secure.
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peter
AC Slater
Posts: 248
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Post by peter on Jul 8, 2014 14:05:54 GMT -5
The sudden volume of Roman Reigns hate/too soon BS internet frenzy is another example of how the current smart fans prove they are a cancer. No one is ever happy with anything. Boggles my mind. He has been treated like a main eventer (with Ambrose and Rollins) for nearly 2 years now. What is "too soon?" No one has any patience anyway so why the hell not? Brock Lesnar was made champion after only 5 months on TV in 2002. Geez already
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Post by Dave the Dave on Jul 8, 2014 14:11:01 GMT -5
I just don't think it makes sense. Shield splits and Ambrose hates Seth. Roman is all "The Authority doesnt want me main eventing, but keep putting me in them. Guess I'm not mad at Seth."
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jul 8, 2014 14:17:20 GMT -5
The sudden volume of Roman Reigns hate/too soon BS internet frenzy is another example of how the current smart fans prove they are a cancer. No one is ever happy with anything. Boggles my mind. He has been treated like a main eventer (with Ambrose and Rollins) for nearly 2 years now. What is "too soon?" No one has any patience anyway so why the hell not? Brock Lesnar was made champion after only 5 months on TV in 2002. Geez already I've liked some "too soon" pushes. Either because the talent tried their best to roll with or because it wasn't quite obvious that the company was force feeding him. Heel Sheamus. I liked Swagger's title reign even though they never gave him the credibility boost to go with it. Barrett/Nexus. Alex Riley even though he shit the bed hard every week. Lesnar had presence and the size to actually be a "monster". He was a very rare "hoss with technical skills". Even if he didn't get pushed as hard as he did, he was at least good enough to be "odds" for the top faces at the time. Reigns is just...yeah...
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Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on Jul 8, 2014 14:33:26 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't get this "organic push" talk. How can a push be considered "organic"? An organic push is one where the crowd chooses a star to get behind, and THEN the office catches wind of that popularity and follows suit with a (sometimes reluctant) push because of that demand. As for the opposite: WWE has guys who they WANT to be superstars in most cases from the moment they sign them, for reasons stemming from size to look to presence, etc., even if said acts come in cold. WWE, in those cases, then does everything they can to poochie these guys up and make them into stars through booking tricks, key wins, and audience manipulation (like commentators saying buzzwords or trying to program pavlovian response and reaction.). Guys like Diesel, Lashey, etc. fit the classic "inorganic push". They either were pushed, because, like with Lashley, Vince creamed himself over his size, or because a one time reaction, like Diesel at Rumble 94, gets the wheels in Vince's head moving. Other than that, there was really no appeal until the office used their tricks. Classic "organic" pushes are those guys often never intended to be any more than what they initially started out as. But without initial office favortism and support, somehow they built a groundswell of support. People like Bryan, Mick Foley, Steve Austin, etc. Basically organics are initially fan chosen. While the opposite are initially office picked. I get the definition. I just question whether that is possible in pro wrestling. Bryan, yes, was organic, but Austin wasn't (unless you are talking the double turn with Bret) and neither was Mick.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 14:58:18 GMT -5
I just don't think it makes sense. Shield splits and Ambrose hates Seth. Roman is all "The Authority doesnt want me main eventing, but keep putting me in them. Guess I'm not mad at Seth." Ambrose hates Seth for turning, while Reigns hates HHH (and the Authority as a whole) for causing Seth to turn. That promo with Ambrose and Reigns from last month basically said as much; Ambrose specifically hates Seth, while Reigns knows that Seth is just part of the problem.
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Bub (BLM)
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Jul 8, 2014 15:00:03 GMT -5
An organic push is one where the crowd chooses a star to get behind, and THEN the office catches wind of that popularity and follows suit with a (sometimes reluctant) push because of that demand. As for the opposite: WWE has guys who they WANT to be superstars in most cases from the moment they sign them, for reasons stemming from size to look to presence, etc., even if said acts come in cold. WWE, in those cases, then does everything they can to poochie these guys up and make them into stars through booking tricks, key wins, and audience manipulation (like commentators saying buzzwords or trying to program pavlovian response and reaction.). Guys like Diesel, Lashey, etc. fit the classic "inorganic push". They either were pushed, because, like with Lashley, Vince creamed himself over his size, or because a one time reaction, like Diesel at Rumble 94, gets the wheels in Vince's head moving. Other than that, there was really no appeal until the office used their tricks. Classic "organic" pushes are those guys often never intended to be any more than what they initially started out as. But without initial office favortism and support, somehow they built a groundswell of support. People like Bryan, Mick Foley, Steve Austin, etc. Basically organics are initially fan chosen. While the opposite are initially office picked. I get the definition. I just question whether that is possible in pro wrestling. Bryan, yes, was organic, but Austin wasn't (unless you are talking the double turn with Bret) and neither was Mick. Austin was a midcard act whom the fans made the most popular guy in the company. Mankind was a sadsack throwaway speedbump for The Rock who was turned into one of the most beloved Superstars of all time, also at the choice of the fans. They were definitely organic. The WWF didn't force anything with those two.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jul 8, 2014 15:00:34 GMT -5
I for one think the porridge's temperature is just right. Back in January, after Roman Reigns had just dominated the Survivor Series match, was the sole Shield member to defeat CM Punk one-on-one, broke the record for eliminations in a Royal Rumble, and it appeared as though The Shield was about to split up, THAT was a push too fast. That was an example of WWE putting the cart before the horse and trying to curry fan support for something that wasn't there yet. However, Reigns has been a dominant figure in WWE for almost 20 months. Nearly two years. It's about time that he, Dean Ambrose, and Seth Rollins, each receive varying levels of singles success. Ambrose is pushing former champions to the limit, Rollins has the Money in the Bank contract, and Reigns is the fourth man in a fatal four-way championship match. To me, it all feels right. A lot of this could be chalked up to the fact that Daniel Bryan is injured and the WWE needed somebody to be the number-two babyface in the company behind John Cena, so Reigns got the call to the big leagues. The real test will be when Bryan returns. If he returns and is still getting the reactions he had prior to WrestleMania, then WWE will again have no choice but to acquiesce to the fan's desires. However, if the injury lingers, or he returns and crowds aren't into him like they were in February and March, then it could be Reigns' time. If Reigns is inorganically pushed to the moon and gets a championship match at WrestleMania XXXI against Brock Lesnar, as has been rumored, then I could see this blowing up in WWE's faces, on par with their disastrous plans for Batista earlier this year. However, if the WWE lets this just continue to build appropriately, then fans will want to support Reigns, not be told to support him. Yeah, which is why I said, is this too much too soon. He can't work a 20 minute match but you're gonna put him in there against Lesnar on the biggest show of the year? Maybe he improves by that point, but it's been 2 years and he still hasn't been able to work a full match. I mean here are the stuff he's rumored to be in: - potential feud and PPV match w/Orton - potential feud and PPV match w/HHH - final 3 and possible winner of Royal Rumble 2015 - mind you he's already done the eliminate 10 guys in the match spot - potential feud and WM match w/Lesnar This is all suppose to happen in a span of 9 months. I get the rocket strap to the back push, but it just seems like a lot. Even Cena got the slow build to the top, as did Batista. For me this isn't even about Daniel Bryan, has more to do with the fact that if he's pushed to the moon this quickly, will the fans turn on him. And if they do, then what? Then they just gave it their best shot. Bryan's return is when the Reigns push needs to really begin. If he can stay over in a top spot while DBry's around, WWE will know they have another big star.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
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Posts: 46,074
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jul 8, 2014 15:01:21 GMT -5
An organic push is one where the crowd chooses a star to get behind, and THEN the office catches wind of that popularity and follows suit with a (sometimes reluctant) push because of that demand. As for the opposite: WWE has guys who they WANT to be superstars in most cases from the moment they sign them, for reasons stemming from size to look to presence, etc., even if said acts come in cold. WWE, in those cases, then does everything they can to poochie these guys up and make them into stars through booking tricks, key wins, and audience manipulation (like commentators saying buzzwords or trying to program pavlovian response and reaction.). Guys like Diesel, Lashey, etc. fit the classic "inorganic push". They either were pushed, because, like with Lashley, Vince creamed himself over his size, or because a one time reaction, like Diesel at Rumble 94, gets the wheels in Vince's head moving. Other than that, there was really no appeal until the office used their tricks. Classic "organic" pushes are those guys often never intended to be any more than what they initially started out as. But without initial office favortism and support, somehow they built a groundswell of support. People like Bryan, Mick Foley, Steve Austin, etc. Basically organics are initially fan chosen. While the opposite are initially office picked. I get the definition. I just question whether that is possible in pro wrestling. Bryan, yes, was organic, but Austin wasn't (unless you are talking the double turn with Bret) and neither was Mick. Not to mention that if the office just plain does not like you, it doesn't make a difference how "organic" your path to getting over was. Look at Zack Ryder.
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