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Post by Dave the Dave on Jul 8, 2014 15:07:11 GMT -5
I just don't think it makes sense. Shield splits and Ambrose hates Seth. Roman is all "The Authority doesnt want me main eventing, but keep putting me in them. Guess I'm not mad at Seth." Ambrose hates Seth for turning, while Reigns hates HHH (and the Authority as a whole) for causing Seth to turn. That promo with Ambrose and Reigns from last month basically said as much; Ambrose specifically hates Seth, while Reigns knows that Seth is just part of the problem. Yeah, I saw the promo. I think it's dumb still. They should both be crazy mad at Seth. Or on the same page all the time. It doesn't make sense for them to be like, "Well Seth turned, guess we're only kind of pals now too. See ya" It just seems.....weird or stupid isn't the right word. Wrong? Dividing their focus just seems like the wrong way to write the story. And Reigns being put in the main event at Payback doesn't make sense if they so badly don't want him in main events.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 15:15:52 GMT -5
Yeah, I saw the promo. I think it's dumb still. They should both be crazy mad at Seth. Or on the same page all the time. It doesn't make sense for them to be like, "Well Seth turned, guess we're only kind of pals now too. See ya" It just seems.....weird or stupid isn't the right word. Wrong? Dividing their focus just seems like the wrong way to write the story. And Reigns being put in the main event at Payback doesn't make sense if they so badly don't want him in main events. Eh, I think it works. Reigns and Ambrose were still pretty friendly on SmackDown; it's not like they've stopped interacting at all. Though I do agree with you that putting Reigns in the Payback main event makes no sense.
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Post by Instant Classic on Jul 8, 2014 15:18:16 GMT -5
I agree with you, but as of Monday there was just the swgger about him where I'm ready for him. It was the small things really such as the fist bump he did when opening the show.
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khali
Dennis Stamp
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Post by khali on Jul 8, 2014 16:38:10 GMT -5
The Shield were main event level or close to main event level through practically their whole time they were together. It would be more inorganic to drop Reigns down the card now, since he's pretty much been there for a while.
But at the same time, if they're not going to put the title on him now, quit putting him in title matches. That has the makings of Ryback again, putting the hot guy in matches he's not winning.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 17:35:39 GMT -5
Time spent pushing Reigns is time that could be used pushing Bo Dallas.
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Post by lildude8218 on Jul 8, 2014 17:36:33 GMT -5
he's no Jean-Pierre LaFitte
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 17:46:56 GMT -5
I just wish Reigns' rise was more organic like Bryan's.
Just don't shove him in our face, have the fans latch on naturally and then when the time comes, the time comes. He has potential, he's getting better and I wouldn't mind if he became "the guy" but I'd rather it happen without the WWE's support rather than forcing it on us. I mean "RawIsRoman" was just bad last night, all the Reigns comments was bad, it's just classic booking which the people will go against. These days most of the audience doesn't go with what the WWE wants anyway. We've seen many failed experiments within the past few years in which the WWE tried to shove down our throats that didn't stick. Reigns doesn't need to be part of this. He's a great talent, I mean his mannerisms and everything. Last night for example with the fist bump, that was great. We just don't need someone who can naturally grow with you be "that guy" because fans won't accept it. There hasn't been many things the fans have accepted lately that's been shoved down our throats. It doesn't work.
There's also too many potential conflicts with his rise such as him going over legends, the other Shield members and of course, the biggest one, Bryan's return. That's going to be a huge issue because I don't think he'll be able to top Bryan in cheers or anything. It's bad.
I just have a bad feeling about this whole thing.
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Post by Main Eventer on Jul 8, 2014 17:48:53 GMT -5
I think the push they are giving him is fine. I just hope that they don't turn him into Cena-lite (AKA Sheamus.)
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Post by g1megatronfan on Jul 8, 2014 17:51:15 GMT -5
I think he is. To me there is nothing that tells me as a viewer "Hey...you...like this guy...here's why". I find Dean Ambrose more likable due to my liking babyfaces with a serious edge to them, but with Reigns I see nothing yet.
I see a leaping punch. That is it right now. This guy needs to be able to show off some major character real soon. Something that grabs my attention and makes me want to root for him.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jul 8, 2014 17:54:17 GMT -5
After last night, I have become 100% convinced that the explicit, blatant plan is to turn Reigns into a mega corporate heel to oppose Bryan when he comes back. The announcers are just too over-the-top about how much we SHOULD be impressed by him.
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Post by King Boo on Jul 8, 2014 17:56:32 GMT -5
My resistance to Reigns getting such attention has f*** all to do with Bryan.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 18:02:34 GMT -5
How many offshoots of "Reigns sucks/Regins is being pushed too fast" do we really need? It's getting to "Cena is stale" levels of bad Until people start believing it so that Reigns doesn't take the spot that they want Bryan to hold Not even about Bryan or anyone else to me. I simply cannot enjoy Roman Reigns because of how he's being used right now. I hate how everything involving him has to end in SUPERMAN PUNCH and SPEAR times however many poor souls are in the ring with him at the time. He was great as the exclamation mark to the sentences Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins were writing. Now it's just !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jul 9, 2014 13:27:08 GMT -5
Actually, they should just plan it like this:
If Reigns keeps his world title momentum: Brock Lesnar vs. Roman Reigns for the title, Daniel Bryan vs. The Rock, and John Cena vs. Undertaker at WM31 If Bryan is ready for Mania and has more momentum going in: Brock Lesnar vs. Daniel Bryan, Roman Reigns (as a heel, if his reactions start getting especially bad) vs. The Rock, and John Cena vs. Undertaker
Either way, I think Rock jobs.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jul 9, 2014 13:47:38 GMT -5
Actually, they should just plan it like this: If Reigns keeps his world title momentum: Brock Lesnar vs. Roman Reigns for the title, Daniel Bryan vs. The Rock, and John Cena vs. Undertaker at WM31 If Bryan is ready for Mania and has more momentum going in: Brock Lesnar vs. Daniel Bryan, Roman Reigns (as a heel, if his reactions start getting especially bad) vs. The Rock, and John Cena vs. Undertaker Either way, I think Rock jobs. I don't want 'Taker anywhere near 'Mania unless it's to get his Hall of Fame spot
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Jul 9, 2014 14:19:51 GMT -5
The actual in-ring results and wins for Roman are not the issue. He SHOULD be winning. Like almost every time. 50/50 parity booking does no one any favors, and even those who rise above it would have benefited more from a more consistent push.
However, the problem with Reigns will eventually come from the Poochie-esque over-promotion and verbal-fellating being done so blatantly and heavy-handedly by the commentators and company. WWE is ignoring the absolute most basic rule of storytelling: SHOW, DON'T TELL. Have Roman just wreck shit, but don't have stupid shit like #RomanIsRAW or whatever that propaganda garbage was. Have his actions and efforts provide the (unsaid) evidence that he's the man, don't have the commentators just tell you he is. That defeats the natural unspoken connection between audience and star. It takes away what they think is a choice. It'd be like a running director dialogue somehow inserted in an action movie, where you're watching Jason Statham or whomever kill dudes, and you hear a voice say, "Can anyone stop this guy!!!!?"; or during a scene where he's suave or cool with a female character, the same off-screen voice says, "Women the world over just love Jason Statham!" And it rings just as annoying in WWE, wherein the action is the real narrative. We don't need Cole or Lawler telling us obvious shit. It just repulses you and makes you feel like you're being fed a soulless product, rather than a cool character. Every monday since Reigns push began, I find myself getting frustrated with the narrative and it's lack of subtlety and feel like yelling like a psycho: "Ya, we know! We have f***ing eyes. We're watching. Stop telling us what he's doing or capable of, and how amazing he is. I want to just like this guy, but you're wrecking everything you nerdy f***s!"
WWE is a promotion, so they have to PROMOTE Reigns, but they don't have to be so obsessively blatant. But they just can't help themselves, it seems. They are tricks and ways to get the same results -- and ones that will not alienate the crowd who will eventually feel like they're being told what to like -- but WWE has no patience. They'd rather use the stupid ADR "Big deal, fairly quick" method, rather than being smart. And by smart I mean, by creating roadblocks with heels that will create an emotional need and craving in fans to see him break through them and crush Hunter and take the belt without the impending resentment. And those roadblocks are simple. You should have had Hunter just declare after MITB that Reigns will NEVER get a title shot ever. And just book Reigns against all sorts of bullshit odds. But you hold out on the opportunity. You build to a fever pitch. You have others getting opportunities (like with Bryan) that should be Roman's, until the crowd has had enough and demands him NOW. They need to believe, at least in some way, that it might not happen (and Cena being the guy inserted into the role they'll want for Roman in the interim is the perfect way to build on that). You don't just nonsensically insert the dude into a 4-way he's not going to win anyway, under the ridiculous stawman booking plothole of "being best for business." Hunter's best for business bullshit isn't supposed to be in any way real. That's why he's a heel. "The business" is supposed to be a fake strawman buzzword used in lieu of the reality: HHH and Stephanie justifying all their preferential tyrranical bullshit.
So, ya, I think it is, if it continues, destined to all blow up in WWE's face. And I can say that honestly after living through 3 decades of WWE booking blunders firsthand. It's not something that is just pulled out of an ass. The majority of guys handpicked to be stars , rode an initial wave of seeming super-stardom and reaction to eventual rejection, apathy and the embracing of someone in lieu that they felt wasn't the company poochie, and all because WWE went a little too far in their enthusiasm to tell you that GUY X was the best thing since Jesus, while someone else was there at the same time, getting over without the ballyhoo and creating a more organic connection.
Bottom line is: A) The post-Bryan world has created a system that has destroyed long term WWE booking as it was -- them just doing what they wanted, when they wanted, and people catching on either through repetition or reluctance. And B) THAT NO ONE LIKES TO BE TOLD WHAT TO LIKE. Be subtle for f*** sakes.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jul 9, 2014 14:21:08 GMT -5
Brock took any intrigue from Cena/Taker when he conquered the Streak.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jul 9, 2014 14:27:42 GMT -5
WWE is ignoring the absolute most basic rule of storytelling: SHOW, DON'T TELL. Yeah, they've been making this mistake for a while for a ton of people.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jul 9, 2014 14:35:22 GMT -5
I also can't see Rock coming back. It'd be financially irresponsible of him at thispoint to risk movie $ for a meaningless match.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jul 9, 2014 16:54:29 GMT -5
The only thing I like about Roman Reigns so far is that when he's in the house, Cena sucks.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jul 9, 2014 17:39:30 GMT -5
The actual in-ring results and wins for Roman are not the issue. He SHOULD be winning. Like almost every time. 50/50 parity booking does no one any favors, and even those who rise above it would have benefited more from a more consistent push. However, the problem with Reigns will eventually come from the Poochie-esque over-promotion and verbal-fellating being done so blatantly and heavy-handedly by the commentators and company. WWE is ignoring the absolute most basic rule of storytelling: SHOW, DON'T TELL. Have Roman just wreck shit, but don't have stupid shit like #RomanIsRAW or whatever that propaganda garbage was. I don't agree. The WWE is always going to have this problem with wrecking-ball wrestlers, because it makes for odd and unsustainable drama: The good guy is the favorite, which means the bad guys become underdogs. The WWE seems to have this idea that you need to be an asskicker to get over as a bigtime face, but that is so obviously not true, looking at who gets cheered. As much as people disparage 50/50 booking, that is very much not the WWE's problem; 95% of their matches have obvious winners just knowing who the participants are. If a guy's on a higher tier, he wins. If a face and a heel are on equal tiers, the face wins, or the heels wins in such a way that makes it clear he's not really on the face's level. It gets old. The other thing is, there's an increasigly large segment of the fans, even people outside the traditional IWC, who see the WWE as unfairly pushing bigger, more aggressive guys at the expense of smaller, more technical guys. This was part of the reason 18 seconds was such a huge watershed. IF the WWE is going to push someone like Reigns, they need to do it in such a way that actually involves a compelling storyline, so they see the person as an individual and not Hossbot 5.0. "Like this guy because he wins a lot and because he's big and hits people hard" is ALWAYS going to backlash. I still think they HAVE gotten wise, and the plan is to turn people on Reigns so he'll be over as a monster for Bryan to overcome. But if they haven't, they deserve what they get.
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