Professor Chaos
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bringer of Destruction and Maker of Doom
Posts: 16,332
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Post by Professor Chaos on Jul 10, 2014 4:12:31 GMT -5
He was the most over guy at the time besides Hogan. Would he have taken Macho Man's spot, become Hogan's best bud, and won the WM4 tournament?
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Post by Clawley Race on Jul 10, 2014 8:55:57 GMT -5
For one, it would have been a lot harder for him to have not ever been pinned until Bret Hart.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 8:25:08 GMT -5
Piper and Macho are two very different guys. A lot of the great programs we saw in the 80's and early 90's came from Macho's work ethic and the fact that he put everything into getting his program over, even when it meant that he would take the fall at the end. Piper is not nearly as selfless, so I don't see a Hogan/Piper Megapowers team ever working to the same extent that Savage made it work.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 11, 2014 10:23:03 GMT -5
Yeah, there's a reason nearly every Piper TV/PPV match in this era ended in a schmozz.
I do wonder if they would have pulled the trigger as quickly on turning him face, though; the idea of him going away seemed like a great impetus to allow the crowd to cheer him for all he had done, not sure if that same impetus would've existed if he hadn't been going anywhere.
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Post by Smokey McTrees on Jul 11, 2014 10:27:14 GMT -5
I know I'm biased, but Flair always says that if the WWE put the belt on him, Piper would have been bigger then Hogan. He has always made some awful career decisions, and leaving like he did completely on top was one of the worst. He's actually a pretty selfless guy in that he felt that he didn't need to beat anybody either, just piss people off by cheating to cause a draw. Which is good for generating heat, however fans do want closure.
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Post by lildude8218 on Jul 11, 2014 12:28:24 GMT -5
It's hard to really fit him in anywhere. Wrestlemania 3 was the feud-ender for him and Adonis. where does he even go from here? turning him heel after only a year would have been a bit sudden but I guess he could have been the one to take the IC title off of Steamboat instead of Honky Tonk Man. he could have easily slid into a feud to turn Macho into a babyface as well.
or a completely left field idea, have him in the role that Tito Santana had as Tom Zenk's replacement and have him team with Martel. it at least would have been something different.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 13:48:33 GMT -5
I would have milked the "number 2 face" thing an extra 8 months from WM3 until the first Survivor Series and put Piper on Hulk's team instead of Ken Patera. So Hogan/Piper/Orndorff/Muraco/Bigelow vs Andre/OMG/Bundy/Rude/Reed. I'd have Piper betray Hulk during the match causing Hulk's team to lose after Hogan pinned Andre cleanly and they were on the verge of victory, and have that lead into Hulk beating Piper to retain the title in the main event of WM IV.
The double referee clusterf**k organized by Dibiase where Hulk lost to Andre would then happen in May instead of Feb, taking the title off of Hogan. The title tournament would be held at the first SummerSlam that Aug instead of WMIV with Macho winning by pinning Dibiase in the semis and Piper in the finals after Hulk/Andre eliminate each other early.
Then from SummerSlam til Royal Rumble it would be Hulk/Savage feuding with Piper/Dibiase/Andre until the MegaPowers split, Piper goes off to film They Live a year late, Andre takes time off and it's Hogan vs Savage at WM V.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 14:05:01 GMT -5
I would have milked the "number 2 face" thing an extra 8 months from WM3 until the first Survivor Series and put Piper on Hulk's team instead of Ken Patera. So Hogan/Piper/Orndorff/Muraco/Bigelow vs Andre/OMG/Bundy/Rude/Reed. I'd have Piper betray Hulk during the match causing Hulk's team to lose after Hogan pinned Andre cleanly and they were on the verge of victory, and have that lead into Hulk beating Piper to retain the title in the main event of WM IV. The double referee clusterf**k organized by Dibiase where Hulk lost to Andre would then happen in May instead of Feb, taking the title off of Hogan. The title tournament would be held at the first SummerSlam that Aug instead of WMIV with Macho winning by pinning Dibiase in the semis and Piper in the finals after Hulk/Andre eliminate each other early. Then from SummerSlam til Royal Rumble it would be Hulk/Savage feuding with Piper/Dibiase/Andre until the MegaPowers split, Piper goes off to film They Live a year late, Andre takes time off and it's Hogan vs Savage at WM V. I like this. I don't even think DiBiase would have been necessary had Piper done the heel turn. The only thing that would make DiBiase a better choice over Piper would be his willingness to take the fall. Otherwise, Piper vs. Hogan would have been a great program to run for WM4. Piper refusing to job to WWF Champion Savage would not change history much, since I don't think Savage ever was able to cleanly beat DiBiase either. One of the great frustrations of being a Macho Man fan was a title reign where he couldn't actually cleanly beat any of his challengers without Hogan inserting himself. |
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Post by Clawley Race on Jul 11, 2014 14:44:37 GMT -5
That all sounds pretty great...but I doubt they'd film They Live a year later...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 17:25:21 GMT -5
That all sounds pretty great...but I doubt they'd film They Live a year later... I know, I know. I just didn't want to miss out on the awesomeness that is They Live so I had to shoehorn it in there along with the awesomeness that was late 80s Ted Dibiase. |
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Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on Jul 11, 2014 19:53:58 GMT -5
I know I'm biased, but Flair always says that if the WWE put the belt on him, Piper would have been bigger then Hogan. He has always made some awful career decisions, and leaving like he did completely on top was one of the worst. He's actually a pretty selfless guy in that he felt that he didn't need to beat anybody either, just piss people off by cheating to cause a draw. Which is good for generating heat, however fans do want closure. Which is why losing to Bret was such a big deal. |
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Post by Hit Girl on Jul 11, 2014 19:58:48 GMT -5
Nothing was going to change that booking plan for Macho Man and Hogan.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jul 11, 2014 20:19:37 GMT -5
For one, it would have been a lot harder for him to have not ever been pinned until Bret Hart. Actually a bit of an urban legend, that. Piper had been pinned clean by both Snuka and Santana after arriving in the WWF. |
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Post by Muskrat on Jul 11, 2014 20:35:03 GMT -5
For one, it would have been a lot harder for him to have not ever been pinned until Bret Hart. Actually a bit of an urban legend, that. Piper had been pinned clean by both Snuka and Santana after arriving in the WWF. Oddly enough, wasn't the only time Hogan pinned Piper in WWE during the Mr America run? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 20:48:29 GMT -5
Actually a bit of an urban legend, that. Piper had been pinned clean by both Snuka and Santana after arriving in the WWF. Oddly enough, wasn't the only time Hogan pinned Piper in WWE during the Mr America run? Well I know it wasn't at SummerSlam... Get it? Cause Piper's never competed at any of the 26 SummerSlams... I'll just be going now. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 23:56:23 GMT -5
It always amazes me to hear the kind of stuff Vince McMahon actually let these guys get away with in the 80s & 90s. Like refusing to lose matches. Piper, Honky Tonk Man, etc. It wasn't written into their contracts that they had "creative control" like Bret Hart later on (which was equally stupid to allow). These guys wouldn't be making big money or be featured WWF stars if McMahon didn't give them jobs and decide to put them on TV. That any of them could say "I'm not going to lose a fake fight when the guy signing my checks tells me the story calls for my character to lose" is ridiculous.
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Post by Ishmeal Loves Kaseyhausen on Jul 12, 2014 10:39:09 GMT -5
It always amazes me to hear the kind of stuff Vince McMahon actually let these guys get away with in the 80s & 90s. Like refusing to lose matches. Piper, Honky Tonk Man, etc. It wasn't written into their contracts that they had "creative control" like Bret Hart later on (which was equally stupid to allow). These guys wouldn't be making big money or be featured WWF stars if McMahon didn't give them jobs and decide to put them on TV. That any of them could say "I'm not going to lose a fake fight when the guy signing my checks tells me the story calls for my character to lose" is ridiculous. The difference is, back then they had somewhere to go. Piper and HTM would have been top guys in the NWA if they bolted, and when Bret got creative control, he would have just bolted sooner if he hadn't. |
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jul 12, 2014 10:55:12 GMT -5
It always amazes me to hear the kind of stuff Vince McMahon actually let these guys get away with in the 80s & 90s. Like refusing to lose matches. Piper, Honky Tonk Man, etc. It wasn't written into their contracts that they had "creative control" like Bret Hart later on (which was equally stupid to allow). These guys wouldn't be making big money or be featured WWF stars if McMahon didn't give them jobs and decide to put them on TV. That any of them could say "I'm not going to lose a fake fight when the guy signing my checks tells me the story calls for my character to lose" is ridiculous. The difference is, back then they had somewhere to go. Piper and HTM would have been top guys in the NWA if they bolted, and when Bret got creative control, he would have just bolted sooner if he hadn't. Also, back then, jobber matches were a much bigger hting, and rarely did matches of substance happen on free TV, so if you didn't want to lose for an extended period, odds are, you weren't going to need to. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 11:38:23 GMT -5
It always amazes me to hear the kind of stuff Vince McMahon actually let these guys get away with in the 80s & 90s. Like refusing to lose matches. Piper, Honky Tonk Man, etc. It wasn't written into their contracts that they had "creative control" like Bret Hart later on (which was equally stupid to allow). These guys wouldn't be making big money or be featured WWF stars if McMahon didn't give them jobs and decide to put them on TV. That any of them could say "I'm not going to lose a fake fight when the guy signing my checks tells me the story calls for my character to lose" is ridiculous. I don't think it's ridiculous at all. Wrestling is a partnership between promoter and performer. Yes, the pay check comes from the promoter, but it's the performer that goes out and has to get over and take the bumps to earn it. The performer is his own brand, and he works to build that brand to make himself marketable and ensure his own long-term viability. The problem is, the promoter wants what the promoter wants, and that's all he cares about. Thus, sometimes the performer would refuse to go along with it, because they interpreted it as being potentially damaging to their long-term viability in the business. I'm not trying to be an advocate for the guys who just refused to put other guys over because of their inflated egos. Just saying that I don't agree at all with the notion that it's a performer's duty to keep his mouth shut and just do what the promoter says. There has to be a balance or nobody makes any money, because it's extremely rare to have a top-tier performer that doesn't have enough of a personal investment in his own career to stand up once in a while and say "No, I don't like this." I think one of the problems with pro wrestling in 2014 is that the promoter has way too much power. There's no question was the industry was better back in the day when the talent had more options and more authority over their own futures. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 17:57:23 GMT -5
It's up to the booker of a promotion to create logical feuds and tell stories, with some twists and turns along the way. There comes a time when it's necessary (for good storyline progression) that a particular wrestler lose a match to their rival. To refuse to do it screws up the booker's plans, and could ultimately result in a story that doesn't make sense. I equate this with an actor accepting a high paying role in a movie, refusing to do what's in the script, and telling the writer he has to change the movie's story.
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