suave
Dennis Stamp
"I only got on my knees for God and maybe to lick a girl's pussy" -Teddy Hart
Posts: 4,207
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Post by suave on Jul 11, 2014 20:08:19 GMT -5
Leaving couldn't have had much to do with money. A max deal is a max deal, and the dude's this global phenomenon so it doesn't matter at all where he lives, in terms of how much money he's going to make. He did what so many Clevelanders do: grows up here, moves away, grows up some more, then came back. I was really pissed when he left, because of that Decision bullshit that hung us out to dry, and because of that Game 5 against the Celtics the dude completely tanked, and I found the whole "team up with superstars" deal to be pretty lame. But just for him actually daring to leave? f*** no, it's all good. I live in Cleveland, I wanna leave. But I feel like there's a decent chance I'd move back here because I really do love Cleveland. It would be nice to experience something else, that's all. Maybe that's how LeBron felt. I never entertained the idea that he would come back before the last week or so, so I never had any "even if he does come back, I'll still hate him!" feelings. I think it's a cool story, and if it wins the Cavs a championship, the story would be legendary. I feel like a lot of Cavs fans/Clevelanders feel the same way. That may seem hypocritical, but I don't think it is. I don't see it as hypocrisy locally, I see it as desperation. Remember this, it hasn't been "four decades without a championship", it's been five, across all sports. Fifty years. My father was 17 the last time any Cleveland team won a championship. I don't care that he left, we've had guys leave. My favorite player when I was 10 was Joe Carter. He was traded away and was a World Series hero for Toronto. I loved Brian Sipe when I was little, he left. Bernie Kosar was traded away and got a ring in Dallas. Man-Ram as nuts as he was left and got himself some rings in Boston. Thome wound up getting one in Chicago. The list goes on and on and on. I as a Cleveland fan am used to talent leaving town. Sometimes that talent comes back, usually it doesn't. The Decision was a dumb, immature move by a kid who listend to his buddies on how to handle his business. It (rightfully, in my mind) blew up in his face. People matuere and change. However, as a fan who watched him up and quit in the finals, then go on TV to have a "look at me" special, then win a pair of rings, and then go to the "I'm coming HOME" card, it just would feel like sloppy seconds. I don't hate the man, I don't want to see him run out of town like the second-coming of Art God Damn Modell, but if you grow up in a town and realize that the town is both passionate and desperate to have something to cheer for, has come close a number of times, and yet gets Charlie Brown'ed every damn time, then there's a different atmosphere. Put it this way, the local media might not admit it, but the old timers know. Had he not left, he'd be on the same level (with or without a ring) as Bob Feller and Jim Brown. That, locally, is as elite as it can get. Leaving does tarnish that, coming back may put salve on it, but it also adds something. Now he HAS to bring a title, because the local feeling will be "We let you come home, you owe us". Hyperbole sure, but you're a Clevelander, you know the sentiment that runs through that city just as well as I do. Thome came to the Sox the year after we won the Series. He was really good, but never won a ring with us.
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Post by angryfan on Jul 11, 2014 20:13:06 GMT -5
I don't see it as hypocrisy locally, I see it as desperation. Remember this, it hasn't been "four decades without a championship", it's been five, across all sports. Fifty years. My father was 17 the last time any Cleveland team won a championship. I don't care that he left, we've had guys leave. My favorite player when I was 10 was Joe Carter. He was traded away and was a World Series hero for Toronto. I loved Brian Sipe when I was little, he left. Bernie Kosar was traded away and got a ring in Dallas. Man-Ram as nuts as he was left and got himself some rings in Boston. Thome wound up getting one in Chicago. The list goes on and on and on. I as a Cleveland fan am used to talent leaving town. Sometimes that talent comes back, usually it doesn't. The Decision was a dumb, immature move by a kid who listend to his buddies on how to handle his business. It (rightfully, in my mind) blew up in his face. People matuere and change. However, as a fan who watched him up and quit in the finals, then go on TV to have a "look at me" special, then win a pair of rings, and then go to the "I'm coming HOME" card, it just would feel like sloppy seconds. I don't hate the man, I don't want to see him run out of town like the second-coming of Art God Damn Modell, but if you grow up in a town and realize that the town is both passionate and desperate to have something to cheer for, has come close a number of times, and yet gets Charlie Brown'ed every damn time, then there's a different atmosphere. Put it this way, the local media might not admit it, but the old timers know. Had he not left, he'd be on the same level (with or without a ring) as Bob Feller and Jim Brown. That, locally, is as elite as it can get. Leaving does tarnish that, coming back may put salve on it, but it also adds something. Now he HAS to bring a title, because the local feeling will be "We let you come home, you owe us". Hyperbole sure, but you're a Clevelander, you know the sentiment that runs through that city just as well as I do. Thome came to the Sox the year after we won the Series. He was really good, but never won a ring with us. Fair enough, my mental timeline got thrown off. Off topic, but damn, dude had one of the sweetest, most vicious power swings I've seen.
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Post by Cyno on Jul 11, 2014 20:36:19 GMT -5
If it's fixed I doubt none of the owners are in it. Just the commissioner and all of his executives. I don't think the draft lottery is fixed every year but when there is a great opportunity for a juicy storyline or give a struggling BIG market franchise a chance to get a really hyped up bonafide world class elite player they are getting it. If the Heat bombs this season they are winning the draft lottery lol. Unless the Lakers bomb and Kobe announces retirement. Etc. etc. Each team has a representative watching the lottery live (not the same ones watching the picks being announced on TV) so they would know if there if there were any shenanigans. And the Commissioners works for the owners. They could fire him if he tries to screw enough of them. Yeah, as much as people like to say the lottery is fixed, it is really, really, really hard if not outright impossible to fix with the amount of observation it has. EVERYONE would have to be in on it from the NBA execs to the owners of every single team to the independent auditors. Cleveland just has stupidly good luck.
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MiLB Fan
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,374
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Post by MiLB Fan on Jul 11, 2014 20:46:05 GMT -5
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Lupin the Third
Patti Mayonnaise
I'm sorry.....I love you. *boot to the head*--3rd most culpable in the jixing of NXT, D'oh!
Join the Dark Order....
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Post by Lupin the Third on Jul 11, 2014 21:01:13 GMT -5
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Post by rawthentic on Jul 11, 2014 21:11:57 GMT -5
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jul 11, 2014 23:34:13 GMT -5
Lebron, in actuality should've never left Cleveland in the first place. Yes, I know people say "Gilbert wasn't bringing him any help", while that may've been in the case, it doesn't change the fact that he would've won a championship in Cleveland at some point. Look at all the players who stuck with their teams, didn't take the easy way out, and in the process won championships despite experiencing heartbreaking disappointments.
But what Cleveland fans need to understand is that if Miami three-peated this year he would've stayed in Miami. It does seem to me that he's matured a lot compared to when he first came to Miami.
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Post by Red Impact on Jul 12, 2014 0:10:22 GMT -5
Lebron, in actuality should've never left Cleveland in the first place. Yes, I know people say "Gilbert wasn't bringing him any help", while that may've been in the case, it doesn't change the fact that he would've won a championship in Cleveland at some point. Look at all the players who stuck with their teams, didn't take the easy way out, and in the process won championships despite experiencing heartbreaking disappointments. You talk about all these players who stuck it out, how many can we really put with those ranks? I'm not talking about players who were drafted into a great situation and won quickly in their careers (Wade, Duncan). I'm talking about players who stuck it out on teams where they were the only right piece for 10 or so years and ended up winning eventually? Dirk, maybe? And even then, Cuban is 10x the owner Dan Gilbert is and they weren't exactly suffering. Maybe David Robinson, but he didn't exactly languish. How many players either stuck with their team and never won, or left later on their careers to try to get a ring that they never got by being loyal? The likes of Gary Payton, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Clyde Drexler, Charles Barkley, Reggie Miller, Dominique Wilkins (Who was really wronged by the Hawks after remaining loyal, btw), Chris Mullin, David Bing, Nate Thurmond, Patrick Ewing, George Gervin, Kevin Garnett, and Elgin Baylor. People say that because that scenario happens far more often. The real NBA doesn't end when the good looking coach gives a stirring speech to rally the band of underdogs to a title against the evil rich snobs, it ends when the dynastic team wins another title because they're better put together than the bad team relying on one good player. NBA history is littered with all-stars who stuck by their team and failed. The few that stuck by and won are an anomaly, not the norm. Now if you think he was good enough that eventually the stars would have aligned and he would have won, then that's fine. No one can prove that one way or the other, but you really can't act like that's the typical career progression in a league where parity is a four letter words.
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Rolent Tex
Grimlock
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Post by Rolent Tex on Jul 12, 2014 0:15:03 GMT -5
Lebron, in actuality should've never left Cleveland in the first place. Yes, I know people say "Gilbert wasn't bringing him any help", while that may've been in the case, it doesn't change the fact that he would've won a championship in Cleveland at some point. Look at all the players who stuck with their teams, didn't take the easy way out, and in the process won championships despite experiencing heartbreaking disappointments. But what Cleveland fans need to understand is that if Miami three-peated this year he would've stayed in Miami. It does seem to me that he's matured a lot compared to when he first came to Miami. Yeah...I laugh when I hear he's matured. The man came out in the 3rd quarter if Game 5 of the Finals and wouldn't shoot. He just passed to his teammates to prove a point. The point is, yeah your teammates played like shit...but that's when you take matters into your own hands and become a legend. He copped out and then ran home with his tail between his legs looking for a better supporting cast. LeBron and Gilbert deserve each other.
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Post by Red Impact on Jul 12, 2014 0:17:01 GMT -5
Lebron, in actuality should've never left Cleveland in the first place. Yes, I know people say "Gilbert wasn't bringing him any help", while that may've been in the case, it doesn't change the fact that he would've won a championship in Cleveland at some point. Look at all the players who stuck with their teams, didn't take the easy way out, and in the process won championships despite experiencing heartbreaking disappointments. But what Cleveland fans need to understand is that if Miami three-peated this year he would've stayed in Miami. It does seem to me that he's matured a lot compared to when he first came to Miami. Yeah...I laugh when I hear he's matured. The man came out in the 3rd quarter if Game 5 of the Finals and wouldn't shoot. He just passed to his teammates to prove a point. The point is, yeah your teammates played like shit...but that's when you take matters into your own hands and become a legend. He copped out and then ran home with his tail between his legs looking for a better supporting cast. LeBron and Gilbert deserve each other. That was weak behavior, yes, but you can't make wine out of a bucket of rocks. No one wins when everyone else on the team is playing that terribly. He was the only player worth a damn that game.
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Post by Cyno on Jul 12, 2014 1:01:51 GMT -5
As good as Lebron James is, he isn't good enough to play 5 vs. 1 against a team that is playing a complete game and making every single shot they can. This isn't Space Jam.
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Rolent Tex
Grimlock
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Post by Rolent Tex on Jul 12, 2014 6:17:07 GMT -5
As good as Lebron James is, he isn't good enough to play 5 vs. 1 against a team that is playing a complete game and making every single shot they can. This isn't Space Jam. Maybe so, but you can't zone out during a major game and just decide to take a quarter off to prove a point. He checked out during the Finals against the Celtics too. I'd consider it similar to the Super Bowl actually. I saw LeBron just lose his heart during that game like the Broncos stopped playing with any heart halfway through the game. Don't get me wrong. It annoys the hell out of me when he got grief for the cramps and for the Heat losing the Finals...but real legends don't mentally check out when they're annoyed in a game that big. Regular season, maybe. Finals, no. Yeah, the rest of the team played liked absolute shit and one man can't win a championship...but to just give up like that is inexcusable.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jul 12, 2014 7:56:15 GMT -5
As good as Lebron James is, he isn't good enough to play 5 vs. 1 against a team that is playing a complete game and making every single shot they can. This isn't Space Jam. Hey now, Daffy Duck was pretty solid from the line. There were a lot of misconceptions about the Tune Squad in general. The press wanted to make Taz look like a Laimbeer style fouler, but he's actually just clumsy and stupid.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 9:59:49 GMT -5
Lebron, in actuality should've never left Cleveland in the first place. Yes, I know people say "Gilbert wasn't bringing him any help", while that may've been in the case, it doesn't change the fact that he would've won a championship in Cleveland at some point. Look at all the players who stuck with their teams, didn't take the easy way out, and in the process won championships despite experiencing heartbreaking disappointments. But what Cleveland fans need to understand is that if Miami three-peated this year he would've stayed in Miami. It does seem to me that he's matured a lot compared to when he first came to Miami. If Wade was 28 instead of 33, James would have stayed in Miami. He saw the window closing due to Wade's impending decline and knew he had a chance to 1) go back home to right his wrong, and 2) play with younger talent with their best years ahead of them. James is no fool.
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 16,876
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Post by BRV on Jul 12, 2014 10:40:31 GMT -5
Who is ready to be shocked? I just want everyone to have something soft on the ground for when their collective jaws hit the floor.
I support LeBron James' choice.
I know, right? Me, of all people, the guy who said that LeBron James was nothing more than this generation's Rick Barry, supports and applauds LeBron James.
I think the one thing that I like most about the choice LeBron made was that, for the first time in his professional basketball career, he's accepted a challenge. He's at the bottom of Mount Everest, and instead of grabbing a bunch of Sherpas to carry him three-quarters of the way up the mountain, he's decided to try to climb it. And I applaud him. He understands the significance of what winning a championship in Cleveland would mean. One championship in Cleveland would matter more than not five, not six, not seven in Miami. He's looked at this roster, and he said it himself, that they're not ready to win a championship overnight, but he's looked at this team and decided that he's going to be the final piece to the puzzle, the on-court teacher that guides these young players, matures them, and morphs them into champions. How can you not applaud that?
Cleveland needed to apologize to LeBron. For all the jersey burnings, Comic Sans letters, chants of "DE-LON-TE", they need to atone for their sins. But LeBron needs to apologize to Cleveland. He's not a blameless victim in this. He's the one that made a one-hour, nationally-televised spectacle of himself and essentially took a dump in a paper bag and lit it on fire on the city's doorstep. Then, in one of the most forgotten moments of his career, LeBron basically mocked the lower- and middle-class residents of Cleveland following the 2011 NBA Finals.
In his love letter to Cleveland, he talks about what a working-class city Cleveland is, how nothing is earned in northeast Ohio. But with those comments, he basically told those people to go f*** off, while he was going continue to laugh in their faces as a millionaire athlete. So yeah, just as Cleveland looked immature in their response to LeBron's decision, LeBron looked like a spoiled, petulant child with those comments.
Ultimately, though, I think the one thing about his choice that makes me personally the happiest is that I'll be able to cheer for the best player in professional basketball today. I've always quietly appreciated his skills, but because I was so turned off by his childish, diva attitude (going as far back as 2009) I could never really vocalize it. Now I can. And because my Celtics suck, while I will root for them first and foremost, I will from afar be a LeBron James fan in 2014-15. I will root for Cleveland to win its first championship since 1964. The city deserves it. The fans deserve it. And for what he's done, realizing the folly of his ways, LeBron James deserves it.
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Post by Cyno on Jul 12, 2014 11:13:09 GMT -5
I imagine that there were some private apologies between Lebron and Gilbert at least. Both said "Mistakes were made on both sides" and Lebron has pretty much apologized for the Decision in every way but using the words "I'm sorry."
But I think calling Miami his "college years" is a pretty apt comparison for Lebron. He went right to the NBA from high school and while he was physically an adult during the Decision, he still had the immaturity of a teenager. I think he's grown into a man during his Miami years.
I still think this was a decision from the heart as much as the brain. Cleveland may have more of an upside than Miami in the future, but Lebron still had two years left in Miami if he decided to stay there without an extension. And even with Miami's problems, they were a better team with Lebron than Cleveland is with Lebron for those two years.
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Post by Munkie91087 on Jul 12, 2014 12:27:16 GMT -5
I have a relatively minor interest in the NBA, but I am pumped to watch LeBron's first game back in Cleveland. It'll be must-see TV that's for sure.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 12:56:23 GMT -5
I don't really see the problem with LeBron going to Cleveland. But I don't expect him to win a championship anytime soon. Superstar athletes like him just cost too much to build an effective team around unless it's the MLB and you're LA or New York (or a city like Detroit that will just throw everything on the table).
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Post by MGH on Jul 12, 2014 13:04:07 GMT -5
Inevitable.
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Post by Ishmeal Loves Kaseyhausen on Jul 14, 2014 20:20:19 GMT -5
Now he needs to make one of the night Hogan Lebron came back in the red and yellow to Cleveland.
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