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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jul 21, 2014 11:20:23 GMT -5
Mike Graham did something worse in Florida, he was doing an interview with Gordon Solie, he was crying at first it looked like a shoot, but then the freebirds came out...it was awkward to say the least, Hayes told Mike to hurry up because it was their time to be interviewed, then Hayes said something along the lines of "who died and put you on the main event?" Then they fought and the freebirds bloodied mike. Nothing's sacred in wrestling, shit if Kevin would've died in the ring, he would've ran an angle with it too, and came out of retirement to fight the heel and draw a house. Jerry Lawler once said in an interview that he and Jarrett had a quote framed in their office, "if there's tickets to be sell we would book the devil himself." When Vince kicks the bucket we'll know the true meaning of tasteless angles.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jul 21, 2014 11:55:42 GMT -5
Pretty sure one of the 'birds, Buddy Roberts maybe, also made a comment about Graham's "loser daddy" (the context of all this is that Mike's dad, promoter Eddie Graham, had just committed suicide very recently when all this went down)
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 13,937
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Post by salz4life on Jul 21, 2014 18:51:23 GMT -5
The big emotional tribute show for the newly deceased Mike also included a female mud wrestling match. "I have the weirdest boner." Bret Hart was there?
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Capt Lunatic
Unicron
Buttah in mah ass, lollipops in mah mouth
Posts: 3,241
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Post by Capt Lunatic on Jul 21, 2014 23:58:06 GMT -5
When Vince kicks the bucket we'll know the true meaning of tasteless angles. No way. When Vince actually dies it's all gonna be visionary this and pioneer that. He will be spoken of in respectful/worshipful tones. It will be at least a month of retrospective shows about how he beat everyone he went up against no matter the dirty tricks they tried to use and revolutionized the business.
Never think Vince McMahon will be treated like one of the boys when he dies.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jul 22, 2014 0:47:34 GMT -5
When Vince kicks the bucket we'll know the true meaning of tasteless angles. No way. When Vince actually dies it's all gonna be visionary this and pioneer that. He will be spoken of in respectful/worshipful tones. It will be at least a month of retrospective shows about how he beat everyone he went up against no matter the dirty tricks they tried to use and revolutionized the business.
Never think Vince McMahon will be treated like one of the boys when he dies.
The first day yes, I would be surprised if Stephanie didn't exploit it, like having rvd smoke the ashes by accident.
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Post by Wolf Hawkfield no1 NZ poster on Jul 22, 2014 3:56:53 GMT -5
WCCW proves that even as bad as the WWE got with Eddiesploitation in 2006, there has been far far far worse has been done by others than Vince could ever do.
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Post by James Fabiano on Jul 22, 2014 12:01:38 GMT -5
WCCW proves that even as bad as the WWE got with Eddiesploitation in 2006, there has been far far far worse has been done by others than Vince could ever do. If we are talking about strictly death, the Gino thing was bordering on it, but to be fair, other than that, WCCW just did your typical "name shows in memory of..." deals. Yeah it was using the family tragedies to draw, but never tried to keep deceased wrestlers in their storylines. WWE on the other hand also did not learn from Eddiesploitation, and thus we got Bearersploitation. I bet if there wasn't bad publicity/legal issues with Owen and Benoit, we'd see them exploited too. (as it is, there were subtle references to Owen's death on WWF/E television since then, if you watch and listen carefully) And now I am thinking of the instance in TNA when Kurt Angle tells Jeff Jarrett that he (Kurt) "wasn't the only one who lost a wife."
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Jul 22, 2014 16:36:56 GMT -5
I really enjoyed the Penthouse article posted. Anyone know any other long-form investigative wrestling articles that are available online?
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the2ndevil
Grimlock
Super Seducer Survivor
Where Is Your Santa, Now?
Posts: 13,629
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Post by the2ndevil on Jul 22, 2014 18:06:12 GMT -5
WCCW proves that even as bad as the WWE got with Eddiesploitation in 2006, there has been far far far worse has been done by others than Vince could ever do. If we are talking about strictly death, the Gino thing was bordering on it, but to be fair, other than that, WCCW just did your typical "name shows in memory of..." deals. Yeah it was using the family tragedies to draw, but never tried to keep deceased wrestlers in their storylines. Gino died from a Cocaine overdose. Even in the 1980s, would they want to bring attention to that?
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Jul 22, 2014 18:53:07 GMT -5
I've never seen money in exploiting death. I mean...does anyone look back fondly on any wrestling angle and thought "yeah, that really added something to the feud" when they included real tragedy? Has there ever been real moneymakers when it comes to this sort of booking? By the mid 80's, it was clear that kayfabe was on the way out and with them doing it nowadays, I don't see how it adds any extra interest to the match. Did anyone buy Wrestlemania because CM Punk was mocking Paul Bearer's death? Did anyone pay extra attention to the Mysterio/Orton feud when Orton decided to say Eddie was dead? Did anyone open up their wallets when Cole was laughing at Lawler's mom dying?
I *get* that the wrestlers themselves might be okay with it. But should the viewers be? And is it really smart to even bring up to begin with?
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,716
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Post by nisidhe on Jul 22, 2014 23:20:23 GMT -5
I've never seen money in exploiting death. I mean...does anyone look back fondly on any wrestling angle and thought "yeah, that really added something to the feud" when they included real tragedy? Has there ever been real moneymakers when it comes to this sort of booking? By the mid 80's, it was clear that kayfabe was on the way out and with them doing it nowadays, I don't see how it adds any extra interest to the match. Did anyone buy Wrestlemania because CM Punk was mocking Paul Bearer's death? Did anyone pay extra attention to the Mysterio/Orton feud when Orton decided to say Eddie was dead? Did anyone open up their wallets when Cole was laughing at Lawler's mom dying? I *get* that the wrestlers themselves might be okay with it. But should the viewers be? And is it really smart to even bring up to begin with? The thing with WCCW's use of the Von Erichs' deaths was that it ended up making money, and gaining exposure for WCCW; at least, it did initially. The memorial card at Texas Stadium in '84 would not have come about had David not died. With that card, World Class was once again on the map and Kerry won the NWA title for that cup of coffee and the bonuses that came with that (I believe that the NWA world champion was paid a percentage of the gate at every card on which he wrestled - 8-12% stick out in my mind.) What happened after that seemed only to hurt the Von Erich legacy. Mike and Chris Von Erich really had no business being in the ring, but I suspect they went either a) because Fritz made them go, or b)they felt themselves a need to prove their worth to their father. Either way, the period of drama between Gino's death, Adams' injury, Kerry's motorcycle crash and then Mike's death was at once one long shill for World Class and one long public exposure of a horrifyingly narcissistic and increasingly desperate father to prove even one of his five adult sons worthy of comparison to the little son he lost and all that son might have been. Death will make money, but sustaining a morbid sense of loss for so long, when much of the loss was needless, will ultimately hurt any promotion.
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JoDaNa1281
Crow T. Robot
Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender. #BLM
Posts: 40,126
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Post by JoDaNa1281 on Jul 23, 2014 0:13:13 GMT -5
WCCW proves that even as bad as the WWE got with Eddiesploitation in 2006, there has been far far far worse has been done by others than Vince could ever do. If we are talking about strictly death, the Gino thing was bordering on it, but to be fair, other than that, WCCW just did your typical "name shows in memory of..." deals. Yeah it was using the family tragedies to draw, but never tried to keep deceased wrestlers in their storylines. WWE on the other hand also did not learn from Eddiesploitation, and thus we got Bearersploitation. I bet if there wasn't bad publicity/legal issues with Owen and Benoit, we'd see them exploited too. (as it is, there were subtle references to Owen's death on WWF/E television since then, if you watch and listen carefully) And now I am thinking of the instance in TNA when Kurt Angle tells Jeff Jarrett that he (Kurt) "wasn't the only one who lost a wife." Don't forget that interview with Brian Pillman's wife, Melanie.
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khali
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,565
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Post by khali on Jul 23, 2014 0:20:51 GMT -5
By the way, if anyone hasn't seen it, the Heroes of World Class documentary (the non-WWE produced one) is a must see. One of the most eye opening moments was David Manning describing breaking the news to Fritz that David had died. He pulled up to the house and before he could even say a word, Fritz asked "which one?"
I said this earlier, but it's even more evident since I re-read the point about Kerry. It wasn't just the exploitation of dead wrestlers that made Fritz awful. It's also the exploitation of living but not well people who shouldn't have been in the ring--Mike after he nearly died and Kerry after the accident. And while he didn't do an "he's in hell" type angle to exploit the dead, he was almost more blatantly trying to profit off it-- the tribute shows to draw a big house, and the selling of David's photos along with yellow roses.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jul 23, 2014 0:23:59 GMT -5
Yeah the Von Erichs and Eddie thing aren't in the same stratosphere. Eddie stuff was tasteless; Fritz was actively harming his own kids by pushing em out there when they had no business being in the ring.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2014 10:57:14 GMT -5
I've never seen money in exploiting death. I mean...does anyone look back fondly on any wrestling angle and thought "yeah, that really added something to the feud" when they included real tragedy? Has there ever been real moneymakers when it comes to this sort of booking? By the mid 80's, it was clear that kayfabe was on the way out and with them doing it nowadays, I don't see how it adds any extra interest to the match. Did anyone buy Wrestlemania because CM Punk was mocking Paul Bearer's death? Did anyone pay extra attention to the Mysterio/Orton feud when Orton decided to say Eddie was dead? Did anyone open up their wallets when Cole was laughing at Lawler's mom dying? I *get* that the wrestlers themselves might be okay with it. But should the viewers be? And is it really smart to even bring up to begin with? The thing with WCCW's use of the Von Erichs' deaths was that it ended up making money, and gaining exposure for WCCW; at least, it did initially. The memorial card at Texas Stadium in '84 would not have come about had David not died. With that card, World Class was once again on the map and Kerry won the NWA title for that cup of coffee and the bonuses that came with that (I believe that the NWA world champion was paid a percentage of the gate at every card on which he wrestled - 8-12% stick out in my mind.) What happened after that seemed only to hurt the Von Erich legacy. Mike and Chris Von Erich really had no business being in the ring, but I suspect they went either a) because Fritz made them go, or b)they felt themselves a need to prove their worth to their father. Either way, the period of drama between Gino's death, Adams' injury, Kerry's motorcycle crash and then Mike's death was at once one long shill for World Class and one long public exposure of a horrifyingly narcissistic and increasingly desperate father to prove even one of his five adult sons worthy of comparison to the little son he lost and all that son might have been. Death will make money, but sustaining a morbid sense of loss for so long, when much of the loss was needless, will ultimately hurt any promotion. Thing is, the '84 David Von Erich memorial made money because it was seen as a tasteful and something that people could feel good about. Sure, you look at it now and you see how they made a profit from it, but back then people probably didn't think much about that. They just thought about how nice it was to have a big event tribute to David. Was it exploitation? Yeah, but that part of it was pretty muted because it was seen as respectful, not tacky and exploitative.
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Post by fuzzywarble, squat cobbler on Jul 23, 2014 11:21:05 GMT -5
Chris really wanted to be a wrestler and was depressed when he couldn't get big enough for the business. Mike never wanted to be one, but Fritz pressured him into it and basically forced him to do something he wanted no part of, resulting in depression.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Jul 23, 2014 12:51:37 GMT -5
Thing is, the '84 David Von Erich memorial made money because it was seen as a tasteful and something that people could feel good about. Sure, you look at it now and you see how they made a profit from it, but back then people probably didn't think much about that. They just thought about how nice it was to have a big event tribute to David. Was it exploitation? Yeah, but that part of it was pretty muted because it was seen as respectful, not tacky and exploitative. Yeah, I have no issue with a tribute show, especially if the money goes to the family, which I guess in this case it does. I don't even have a problem with someone dedicating their match to the deceased, however it crosses the line with me when it becomes part of the storyline. Rey dedicating his Rumble match to Eddie, fine. Talking to him...uhhh? Having Orton con Rey into a feud by talking shit about Eddie...completely and totally distasteful. WCCW did this as well too, even at the tribute for David, profiting off of inflated prices for pictures and roses...that's pathetic.
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Post by James Fabiano on Jul 23, 2014 13:17:48 GMT -5
By the way, if anyone hasn't seen it, the Heroes of World Class documentary (the non-WWE produced one) is a must see. One of the most eye opening moments was David Manning describing breaking the news to Fritz that David had died. He pulled up to the house and before he could even say a word, Fritz asked "which one?" I said this earlier, but it's even more evident since I re-read the point about Kerry. It wasn't just the exploitation of dead wrestlers that made Fritz awful. It's also the exploitation of living but not well people who shouldn't have been in the ring--Mike after he nearly died and Kerry after the accident. And while he didn't do an "he's in hell" type angle to exploit the dead, he was almost more blatantly trying to profit off it-- the tribute shows to draw a big house, and the selling of David's photos along with yellow roses. Yes I'll give you the forged autograph thing. Which reminds me of an indy in this area who tried to promote the "original WWE Oddity Golga"...years after John Tenta died. They tried to pull the same thing with the Mortis character, but at least called it a "tribute" to Chris Kanyon that time.
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Post by Surfer Sandman on Jul 23, 2014 13:19:59 GMT -5
Reading this article just made me sad. I watched WCCW as a kid but don't remember the deaths of the Von Erichs. I do remember the death of Kerry Von Erich though (suicide) and that made me even more sad because I liked his Texas Tornado character in the WWF.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2014 14:48:41 GMT -5
By the way, if anyone hasn't seen it, the Heroes of World Class documentary (the non-WWE produced one) is a must see. One of the most eye opening moments was David Manning describing breaking the news to Fritz that David had died. He pulled up to the house and before he could even say a word, Fritz asked "which one?" I'll second this recommendation. It's probably the only wrestling documentary that I've watched 5 times or more. Among other things, the demolition of the Sportatorium and the input from Gary Hart put it over the WWE World Class doc.
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