|
Post by wildojinx on Jul 23, 2014 22:16:09 GMT -5
I wonder if this is why the Network hasnt uploaded later WCCW episodes.
|
|
|
Post by N E O G E O B O Y S on Jul 23, 2014 23:18:37 GMT -5
Guys, any of you had the videi of the press conference?
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jul 23, 2014 23:30:08 GMT -5
With Mike?
There's a bit of it on the WWE produced doc.
|
|
Blindkarevik
Grimlock
Rock... Paper... Straight-edge!
I Like To <blank>
Posts: 14,343
|
Post by Blindkarevik on Jul 23, 2014 23:40:30 GMT -5
I always go back to the kayfabe era..... at this point in time, wrestling was still being called a sport. So, in a kayfabe-era promoter's mind... the lines blur between exploitation and storylines. You take a horrible, tragic event...and try to make money off it. Be it, "Come to this event to honor our fallen gladiator".... or "While Wrestler A tried to mourn, Wrestler B disrespected him.... watch Wrestler A destroy Wrestler B at the next card!"
I don't condone it, and today... all pretense would be dropped, storylines would be scrapped, and the veil would be lifted to say, "Hey listen...this is a show, but this event is not a part of it. Let's be human for a bit while we regroup and refocus." But back then, that idea didn't even enter their minds.
And it's not just promoters.... hell, during the plane ride where Ric Flair broke his back.... they were riding with a face who experience similar injuries. He checked himself out of the hospital and worked a show right after the crash just to "protect the business" so people wouldn't know heels and faces rode together occasionally. An absolutely stupid move that, at the time, was just what you did.
I'm not trying to defend Fritz with his mindset, but in a way.... it was the mindset you almost had to be in to survive as a promoter in those days. The show must go on, and "This terrible thing just happened, can we turn it into an angle?" were just what they felt they HAD to do.
|
|
|
Post by Chuckie Finster on Jul 23, 2014 23:51:32 GMT -5
When Vince dies, they will freeze him and put his corpse on the stage ala Lenin's Tomb. Everyone will bow to it before going to the ring. After 2 months, Orton will whip HHH into Vince and the announcers will do their Owen Hart voices.
|
|
|
Post by wildojinx on Jul 24, 2014 0:05:42 GMT -5
When Vince dies, they will freeze him and put his corpse on the stage ala Lenin's Tomb. Everyone will bow to it before going to the ring. After 2 months, Orton will whip HHH into Vince and the announcers will do their Owen Hart voices. Im personally holding out for the "Vince's ghost possesses John Cena" storyline, complete with Cena doing the Vince strut and the "SHUT UP!" line.
|
|
|
Post by Sir Woodrow on Jul 24, 2014 0:48:36 GMT -5
I think when Vince goes they'll pretend otherwise like "Weekend At Bernies" for awhile, fans will realize when Vince's head falls off on his way to the ring 6 months later
|
|
|
Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jul 24, 2014 1:26:54 GMT -5
I wish that when they bury Vince they would also dump Kevin Dunn alive in the casket, like Burns and Smithers.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2014 13:14:01 GMT -5
I always go back to the kayfabe era..... at this point in time, wrestling was still being called a sport. So, in a kayfabe-era promoter's mind... the lines blur between exploitation and storylines. You take a horrible, tragic event...and try to make money off it. Be it, "Come to this event to honor our fallen gladiator".... or "While Wrestler A tried to mourn, Wrestler B disrespected him.... watch Wrestler A destroy Wrestler B at the next card!" I don't condone it, and today... all pretense would be dropped, storylines would be scrapped, and the veil would be lifted to say, "Hey listen...this is a show, but this event is not a part of it. Let's be human for a bit while we regroup and refocus." But back then, that idea didn't even enter their minds. And it's not just promoters.... hell, during the plane ride where Ric Flair broke his back.... they were riding with a face who experience similar injuries. He checked himself out of the hospital and worked a show right after the crash just to "protect the business" so people wouldn't know heels and faces rode together occasionally. An absolutely stupid move that, at the time, was just what you did. I'm not trying to defend Fritz with his mindset, but in a way.... it was the mindset you almost had to be in to survive as a promoter in those days. The show must go on, and "This terrible thing just happened, can we turn it into an angle?" were just what they felt they HAD to do. I don't really see the kayfabe coming into play that much on something like this. Kayfabe is making an audience believe in something that isn't real, like two guys making the audience think they hate each other. These exploitation angles are the opposite of kayfabe. They take something that's real and expose the business by making it look fake. There's no other competitive sport that would make a mockery out of someone's death. If the promoter exploits tragedy, it's in the interest of dollar signs, not kayfabe. Kayfabe would be best served with a 10 bell salute or a respectful acknowledgment, then moving on.
|
|
|
Post by tigermaskxxxvii on Jul 24, 2014 14:02:32 GMT -5
Speaking of Fritz exploiting dead wrestlers and his family (which these two things overlapped from time to time) I present the Von Erich Family Photo Album commercial: www.youtube.com/watch?v=45VXoJ3W7ogBy the way, if anyone hasn't seen it, the Heroes of World Class documentary (the non-WWE produced one) is a must see. One of the most eye opening moments was David Manning describing breaking the news to Fritz that David had died. He pulled up to the house and before he could even say a word, Fritz asked "which one?" I'll second this recommendation. It's probably the only wrestling documentary that I've watched 5 times or more. Among other things, the demolition of the Sportatorium and the input from Gary Hart put it over the WWE World Class doc. Kevin walking through the Sportatorium was one of the saddest things ever. Just knowing that the good times are long over and that this was more than just a wrestling promotion for Kevin, but a series of relationships for him. Not just with "the boys" but with Sportatorium personel, cops working security, etc. The tour of the Sportatorium is what gives the independently made World Class doc a huge advantage over the WWE one (and unfair advantage since the building was demolished before the WWE could make their doc. But an advantage none the less)Also, that footage of Gary Hart cutting a promo on some street corner in Dallas makes him look like one of the coolest dudes ever. Especially when some guy driving by interrupts the promo by yelling at Gary (I assume he recognized him from watching World Class on TV), "Yeah, Bill Mercer isn't here this week. He's at Rice University matriculating....Hey brother, what is? Yeah, I'm just handling some business! I'll talk to you later."
|
|
|
Post by wildojinx on Jul 24, 2014 14:09:01 GMT -5
Speaking of Fritz exploiting dead wrestlers and his family (which these two things overlapped from time to time) I present the Von Erich Family Photo Album commercial: www.youtube.com/watch?v=45VXoJ3W7ogThat pic of Mike at 0:40 is sad. He looks near death almost.
|
|
Blindkarevik
Grimlock
Rock... Paper... Straight-edge!
I Like To <blank>
Posts: 14,343
|
Post by Blindkarevik on Jul 24, 2014 18:10:13 GMT -5
I always go back to the kayfabe era..... at this point in time, wrestling was still being called a sport. So, in a kayfabe-era promoter's mind... the lines blur between exploitation and storylines. You take a horrible, tragic event...and try to make money off it. Be it, "Come to this event to honor our fallen gladiator".... or "While Wrestler A tried to mourn, Wrestler B disrespected him.... watch Wrestler A destroy Wrestler B at the next card!" I don't condone it, and today... all pretense would be dropped, storylines would be scrapped, and the veil would be lifted to say, "Hey listen...this is a show, but this event is not a part of it. Let's be human for a bit while we regroup and refocus." But back then, that idea didn't even enter their minds. And it's not just promoters.... hell, during the plane ride where Ric Flair broke his back.... they were riding with a face who experience similar injuries. He checked himself out of the hospital and worked a show right after the crash just to "protect the business" so people wouldn't know heels and faces rode together occasionally. An absolutely stupid move that, at the time, was just what you did. I'm not trying to defend Fritz with his mindset, but in a way.... it was the mindset you almost had to be in to survive as a promoter in those days. The show must go on, and "This terrible thing just happened, can we turn it into an angle?" were just what they felt they HAD to do. I don't really see the kayfabe coming into play that much on something like this. Kayfabe is making an audience believe in something that isn't real, like two guys making the audience think they hate each other. These exploitation angles are the opposite of kayfabe. They take something that's real and expose the business by making it look fake. There's no other competitive sport that would make a mockery out of someone's death. If the promoter exploits tragedy, it's in the interest of dollar signs, not kayfabe. Kayfabe would be best served with a 10 bell salute or a respectful acknowledgment, then moving on. I completely agree. You just have to admit, there were people back then, as well a today, who value the potential revenue off a tragedy than any iota of human decency and respect.
|
|
|
Post by Chuckie Finster on Jul 24, 2014 23:50:18 GMT -5
One thing I remember about Kerry was that in his last match, he wrestled as a masked man, but still had his KERRY VON ERICH tong jacket on, not to mention the long blonde hair coming out of the mask.
Kerry was like Nick Diaz with a lot more drugs. Charisma oozing out of his pores, but has no idea what's going on.
|
|
|
Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jul 25, 2014 0:13:45 GMT -5
You can actually trace the moment the tragedies began to unfold, it was when Gary Hart left the company. Fritz, although meaning well probably, became an enabler, "Uncle" Gary never let the boys work while they were under the influence. Gary once said that WCCW died when the people lost faith in the Von Erichs.
|
|
|
Post by willywonka666 on Jul 25, 2014 16:03:28 GMT -5
I just watched an old documentary about the Von Erichs on Youtube called Faded Glory and it was produced after fritz died in 97 and hosted by announcer Bill Mercer.
It's really good, but somewhat Kayfabe if we are to believe the Penthouse article, because in the documentary they calim David DID wrestle a match in japan before he died and most surprising of all...
Fritz said that he never dreamed his kids would follow in his footsteps and he was surprised when they all did.
Really good documentary though
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jul 25, 2014 17:32:49 GMT -5
Ugh the family album thing just makes your skin crawl just a lil bit.
|
|
|
Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jul 25, 2014 17:35:16 GMT -5
|
|
BorneAgain
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,285
Member is Online
|
Post by BorneAgain on Jul 25, 2014 17:45:19 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSXg-d0jboMI think Cornette sums up a lot the issues the Von Erich's had. Fritz in general strikes me as a man too stubborn to change his mind about anything; expanding World Class, reigning in his sons, or looking at what the company was doing to its talent and the perception of the fans. He's the sleazy wrestling carny taken to its natural end point; exploitation of the tragedy of his own family for gain.
|
|
|
Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Jul 25, 2014 19:39:31 GMT -5
By the way, if anyone hasn't seen it, the Heroes of World Class documentary (the non-WWE produced one) is a must see. One of the most eye opening moments was David Manning describing breaking the news to Fritz that David had died. He pulled up to the house and before he could even say a word, Fritz asked "which one?" I said this earlier, but it's even more evident since I re-read the point about Kerry. It wasn't just the exploitation of dead wrestlers that made Fritz awful. It's also the exploitation of living but not well people who shouldn't have been in the ring--Mike after he nearly died and Kerry after the accident. And while he didn't do an "he's in hell" type angle to exploit the dead, he was almost more blatantly trying to profit off it-- the tribute shows to draw a big house, and the selling of David's photos along with yellow roses. Yes I'll give you the forged autograph thing. Which reminds me of an indy in this area who tried to promote the "original WWE Oddity Golga"...years after John Tenta died. They tried to pull the same thing with the Mortis character, but at least called it a "tribute" to Chris Kanyon that time. Just curious what indie that was? Feel free to PM me if you'd rather not post it here.
|
|
|
Post by N E O G E O B O Y S on Jul 25, 2014 20:38:37 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QPmnV7-RewWas this the press conference? Also, I remember a video where kerry and kevin had to keep mike from falling away in a car inside the cotton bowl I think, anyone has that video?
|
|