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Post by mysterydriver on Jul 23, 2014 20:49:21 GMT -5
And other little things that add to character's subtly.
I was watching an episode of Raw from 1993, the one featuring the debut of Jerry "The King" Lawler. In it, Lawler drilled his jobber with the piledriver and then grabbed the tights while the ref counted the three. It added to the dislike of The King because it showed he's willing to cheat when he doesn't have to, just because he wants to. Especially the way he smirked to the camera while doing it.
I like those little moments when a wrestler doesn't have to rely on words to get 'over' with the crowd.
So, I bring forth a thread asking for other examples people have noticed that made them like/dislike a character more.
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Mr T L Wolf
Hank Scorpio
He has the looks of Andre the Giant, and the strength of Barry Windham. Not to mention he's a hero to a few armadillos, a kangaroo and a small herd of bison.
Posts: 5,319
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Post by Mr T L Wolf on Jul 25, 2014 5:51:02 GMT -5
This .gif popped up on Reddit recently. Just look at the mannerisms of Regal. I love the way he fully commits to whatever the office gives him.
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mrmulluk
Bubba Ho-Tep
I am always funny. I am never joking.
Posts: 545
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Post by mrmulluk on Jul 25, 2014 7:07:48 GMT -5
Came in to post Mr Regal.
Literally everything the man does is attention to detail, from the open handed strikes to the forearm across the face on the cover, the little half nelsons to roll an opponent over, the hand behind the back. I can literally rattle off mannerisms he always uses that says old school Brit heel.
The man's work just screams "attention to detail".
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Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Jul 25, 2014 11:55:03 GMT -5
It annoys me when the tights are grabbed, because usually it just feels like cheap heat and I feel the WWE does enough to discredit their Heels as legitimate talent.
So I suppose its working.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 13:11:57 GMT -5
It annoys me when the tights are grabbed, because usually it just feels like cheap heat and I feel the WWE does enough to discredit their Heels as legitimate talent. So I suppose its working. WWE doesn't even know how to get a heel over anymore, or a babyface for that matter. They are seemingly oblivious on the psychology behind manipulating the audience. Instead, they just write what looks good to them and throw it out there, figuring if they drill it into the audience's head long enough that we'll get it. There's no consistency from one month to the next for so much of the talent. What made Lawler grabbing the tights on jobbers so good is that it was consistent with what we thought about him, and more importantly, what we wanted to think about him. We wanted to hate Lawler and he helped us to indulge that emotion. So often now when I see guys use little weaselly tactics like this, it is meaningless because there's no long-term consistency or vision behind his character which hurts his chances of really getting over like he could. Back on topic: I hate this new trend of babyfaces telegraphing their finisher. It was a nice novelty when Shawn Michaels loaded up for the Sweet Chin Music, but this is copied way too much, where the face will stand in the corner and telegraph to the fans that he's about to do his finisher while his groggy opponent stands up, completely unaware. What happened to the excitement of the Diamond Cutter coming out of nowhere? I love when the office stays true to a character despite the fans trying to turn him. Cena is not one of my all time favorites by a mile, but he's one of the best characters of the last decade IMO because his character is consistent enough for the audience to actually identify with. More than anyone else in WWE, what Cena does and says actually means something.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jul 25, 2014 13:23:52 GMT -5
It annoys me when the tights are grabbed, because usually it just feels like cheap heat and I feel the WWE does enough to discredit their Heels as legitimate talent. So I suppose its working. WWE doesn't even know how to get a heel over anymore, or a babyface for that matter. They are seemingly oblivious on the psychology behind manipulating the audience. Instead, they just write what looks good to them and throw it out there, figuring if they drill it into the audience's head long enough that we'll get it. There's no consistency from one month to the next for so much of the talent. What made Lawler grabbing the tights on jobbers so good is that it was consistent with what we thought about him, and more importantly, what we wanted to think about him. We wanted to hate Lawler and he helped us to indulge that emotion. So often now when I see guys use little weaselly tactics like this, it is meaningless because there's no long-term consistency or vision behind his character which hurts his chances of really getting over like he could. Back on topic: I hate this new trend of babyfaces telegraphing their finisher. It was a nice novelty when Shawn Michaels loaded up for the Sweet Chin Music, but this is copied way too much, where the face will stand in the corner and telegraph to the fans that he's about to do his finisher while his groggy opponent stands up, completely unaware. What happened to the excitement of the Diamond Cutter coming out of nowhere? I love when the office stays true to a character despite the fans trying to turn him. Cena is not one of my all time favorites by a mile, but he's one of the best characters of the last decade IMO because his character is consistent enough for the audience to actually identify with. More than anyone else in WWE, what Cena does and says actually means something. there were times DDP telegraphed the Diamond Cutter though. If he did the self-high five diamond symbol during the match it meant he was going for it.
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willyjakes
Don Corleone
Dingleberry Don
Sigs/Avatars cannot exceed 1MB
Posts: 1,646
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Post by willyjakes on Jul 25, 2014 13:34:06 GMT -5
I always loved how Macho Man Randy Savage would still grab the tights on occasion even as a face.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 14:17:03 GMT -5
It annoys me when the tights are grabbed, because usually it just feels like cheap heat and I feel the WWE does enough to discredit their Heels as legitimate talent. So I suppose its working. WWE doesn't even know how to get a heel over anymore, or a babyface for that matter. They are seemingly oblivious on the psychology behind manipulating the audience. Instead, they just write what looks good to them and throw it out there, figuring if they drill it into the audience's head long enough that we'll get it. There's no consistency from one month to the next for so much of the talent. What made Lawler grabbing the tights on jobbers so good is that it was consistent with what we thought about him, and more importantly, what we wanted to think about him. We wanted to hate Lawler and he helped us to indulge that emotion. So often now when I see guys use little weaselly tactics like this, it is meaningless because there's no long-term consistency or vision behind his character which hurts his chances of really getting over like he could. Back on topic: I hate this new trend of babyfaces telegraphing their finisher. It was a nice novelty when Shawn Michaels loaded up for the Sweet Chin Music, but this is copied way too much, where the face will stand in the corner and telegraph to the fans that he's about to do his finisher while his groggy opponent stands up, completely unaware. What happened to the excitement of the Diamond Cutter coming out of nowhere? I love when the office stays true to a character despite the fans trying to turn him. Cena is not one of my all time favorites by a mile, but he's one of the best characters of the last decade IMO because his character is consistent enough for the audience to actually identify with. More than anyone else in WWE, what Cena does and says actually means something. I love the fact that wrestlers don't notice the crowd going crazy for an opponent about to perform their finisher. You are literally in the dead center of the crowd but can't hear them. Really?
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jul 25, 2014 14:29:00 GMT -5
WWE doesn't even know how to get a heel over anymore, or a babyface for that matter. They are seemingly oblivious on the psychology behind manipulating the audience. Instead, they just write what looks good to them and throw it out there, figuring if they drill it into the audience's head long enough that we'll get it. There's no consistency from one month to the next for so much of the talent. What made Lawler grabbing the tights on jobbers so good is that it was consistent with what we thought about him, and more importantly, what we wanted to think about him. We wanted to hate Lawler and he helped us to indulge that emotion. So often now when I see guys use little weaselly tactics like this, it is meaningless because there's no long-term consistency or vision behind his character which hurts his chances of really getting over like he could. Back on topic: I hate this new trend of babyfaces telegraphing their finisher. It was a nice novelty when Shawn Michaels loaded up for the Sweet Chin Music, but this is copied way too much, where the face will stand in the corner and telegraph to the fans that he's about to do his finisher while his groggy opponent stands up, completely unaware. What happened to the excitement of the Diamond Cutter coming out of nowhere? I love when the office stays true to a character despite the fans trying to turn him. Cena is not one of my all time favorites by a mile, but he's one of the best characters of the last decade IMO because his character is consistent enough for the audience to actually identify with. More than anyone else in WWE, what Cena does and says actually means something. I love the fact that wrestlers don't notice the crowd going crazy for an opponent about to perform their finisher. You are literally in the dead center of the crowd but can't hear them. Really? well you'll notice in the WWE 9 times out of 10 if they go for the finisher with the big setup it's reversed (especially on PPV) Cena almost never hits the Attitude Adjustment after the five knuckle shuffle, Orton is pushed off after thrashing around on the ground.... etc.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 14:50:28 GMT -5
I was watching some old WCW a while back and Tully and Arn worked a 10-15 minute match against some throwaways that contained some of the sharpest, most logical nonchalant heeling I've ever seen in my entire life.
Nothing hammy and stupid. Just a steady application of cutting corners without a single moment of awkwardness or anyone not being in position.
Brilliant stuff.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 16:51:47 GMT -5
I was watching some old WCW a while back and Tully and Arn worked a 10-15 minute match against some throwaways that contained some of the sharpest, most logical nonchalant heeling I've ever seen in my entire life. Nothing hammy and stupid. Just a steady application of cutting corners without a single moment of awkwardness or anyone not being in position. Brilliant stuff. I'm pretty sure it is physically impossible for Arn Anderson to have a lousy match.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jul 25, 2014 17:19:54 GMT -5
I was watching some old WCW a while back and Tully and Arn worked a 10-15 minute match against some throwaways that contained some of the sharpest, most logical nonchalant heeling I've ever seen in my entire life. Nothing hammy and stupid. Just a steady application of cutting corners without a single moment of awkwardness or anyone not being in position. Brilliant stuff. I'm pretty sure it is physically impossible for Arn Anderson to have a lousy match. Well, there's that match against the Renegade.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 17:21:33 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure it is physically impossible for Arn Anderson to have a lousy match. Well, there's that match against the Renegade. Wasn't him. It was a fake Arn Anderson fighting a fake Ultimate Warrior.
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Magnus the Magnificent
King Koopa
didn't want one.
I could write a book about what you don't know!
Posts: 12,404
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Jul 25, 2014 18:07:18 GMT -5
Win if you can, lose if you must, but always cheat.
It's not cheating until you get caught, but sound strategy to win.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 19:27:31 GMT -5
I was watching some old WCW a while back and Tully and Arn worked a 10-15 minute match against some throwaways that contained some of the sharpest, most logical nonchalant heeling I've ever seen in my entire life. Nothing hammy and stupid. Just a steady application of cutting corners without a single moment of awkwardness or anyone not being in position. Brilliant stuff. I'm pretty sure it is physically impossible for Arn Anderson to have a lousy match. I always thought that Arn was hot and cold. It's like he'd come out and have a brilliant match one night, then the next night he might come out and just cycle through his spots like Flair did. If I'm remembering right, I didn't like Arn much when he first became a singles wrestler, but over the years he got better and better.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jul 26, 2014 0:21:05 GMT -5
This is part of what annoys me in today's WWE. Very rarely do heels win via cheating that does not come by way of interference. Heels do not use weapons or low blows. They do not use exposed turnbuckles or anything of the sort. They either win or lose and occasionally do something minor like raking the eyes. And here is my biggest issue. Sometimes the WWE will try to keep the face strong by having the heel cheat to win. But the cheating is often so minor that it does not matter. Sure, Miz raked his eyes before hitting his finisher, he still won. Hell, pulling the tights happens a lot in today's product. Most do not notice it because the cameras never get an angle of it. We are usually left to Cole shouting "I THINK HE HAS THE TIGHTS" followed by no mention of it ever again. Did he have the tights? Did it matter? I DON'T KNOW! (insert Luger face)
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 26, 2014 0:34:03 GMT -5
This is part of what annoys me in today's WWE. Very rarely do heels win via cheating that does not come by way of interference. Heels do not use weapons or low blows. They do not use exposed turnbuckles or anything of the sort. They either win or lose and occasionally do something minor like raking the eyes. And here is my biggest issue. Sometimes the WWE will try to keep the face strong by having the heel cheat to win. But the cheating is often so minor that it does not matter. Sure, Miz raked his eyes before hitting his finisher, he still won. Hell, pulling the tights happens a lot in today's product. Most do not notice it because the cameras never get an angle of it. We are usually left to Cole shouting "I THINK HE HAS THE TIGHTS" followed by no mention of it ever again. Did he have the tights? Did it matter? I DON'T KNOW! (insert Luger face) It's all because modern WWE seems committed to the idea that heels are incompetent girly men who can't hope to stand to the bold, strong, and all-powerful babyfaces without a deus ex machina appearing to spare them the beating they are sure to receive. The WORST offender in WWE is the God awful "ZOMG my enemy's theme song is playing, I need to stand away from my current opponent and leave myself open to getting rolled up, even though this happens every stupid week!" Heels should often cheat, but a heel's cheating should add to his/her character and get the crowd more invested in wanting to see him/her lose. Arn or Flair cheating didn't make the Horsemen seem weak or incapable of beating guys like Sting or the Steiners. Rather, it made them look dangerous. Sure, they were cutting corners; sure, they must've been doing it because they didn't have full faith that they'd defeat the determined babyface(s). But Flair knowing how to slip on brass knuckles when nobody's looking, or Arn knowing how to bend the rules enough that he gets away with choking or punching his opponent, giving him an unfair advantage? Those are dangerous heels, who might deny your heroes a chance at glory that you so desperately want them to achieve.
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Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on Jul 26, 2014 3:20:10 GMT -5
A heel shouldn't cheat because they have to, they should cheat because they want to.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jul 26, 2014 21:03:52 GMT -5
This is part of what annoys me in today's WWE. Very rarely do heels win via cheating that does not come by way of interference. Heels do not use weapons or low blows. They do not use exposed turnbuckles or anything of the sort. They either win or lose and occasionally do something minor like raking the eyes. And here is my biggest issue. Sometimes the WWE will try to keep the face strong by having the heel cheat to win. But the cheating is often so minor that it does not matter. Sure, Miz raked his eyes before hitting his finisher, he still won. Hell, pulling the tights happens a lot in today's product. Most do not notice it because the cameras never get an angle of it. We are usually left to Cole shouting "I THINK HE HAS THE TIGHTS" followed by no mention of it ever again. Did he have the tights? Did it matter? I DON'T KNOW! (insert Luger face) It's all because modern WWE seems committed to the idea that heels are incompetent girly men who can't hope to stand to the bold, strong, and all-powerful babyfaces without a deus ex machina appearing to spare them the beating they are sure to receive. The WORST offender in WWE is the God awful "ZOMG my enemy's theme song is playing, I need to stand away from my current opponent and leave myself open to getting rolled up, even though this happens every stupid week!" but if they stood close to their opponent while not focusing on them that would often leave them in position to be attacked
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suave
Dennis Stamp
"I only got on my knees for God and maybe to lick a girl's pussy" -Teddy Hart
Posts: 4,207
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Post by suave on Jul 26, 2014 21:29:31 GMT -5
It's not in ring, but that way the Miz holds the mic when he's not saying anything. It's a really insignificant thing, but to me it's a random little thing that makes him seem like a douche, adding to his character.
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