95 WWF

[Professor Chaos]

It is arguably regarded as their worst year. Been rewatching the RAW's from that year and I'm up to May and they've been pretty good shows. Just a random thought.

[thelonewolf527]

It was definitely bad, but I think that there are some instances of people making WWF at that time in terms of business seeming much worse than it really was. For example, Starrcade 1997, the show that was supposed to put the WWF out of business, did less buys than WreslteMania that took place on 3 months later. Quick turnaround, or blowing a whole bunch of smoke up WCW at the time?

[Andrew is Good]

I was a big fan back in the day. I can see the issues due to star power problems. The King of the Ring had no star power except for Undertaker and Shawn Michaels. I also felt they really could have made Savio Vega because he was a new guy and could have been put over huge.

I really do think Diesel being the WWF Champion was the worst part of it and what brought the whole company down because he was this babyface giant. If he was a heel, or someone else was Champion, you could give more people a chance. Like a Savio Vega that I brought up.

[willyjakes]

This was probably the first year I watched decidedly more WCW than WWF

[Deleted]

I think '93 and '94 are both worse than '95.

'93 was just like, "What happened to all the stars?"

By '94 we had gotten used to the reality that the stars were guys like 1-2-3 Kid and Sparky Plugg.

I actually semi-enjoyed '95, and despite WCW killing them, I thought '96 and '97 were enjoyable too.

[auph10imitated]

I think 1995 could have been a million times better had they used the correct people and not used the ridiculous stupid gimmicks.

Bret Hart was one of the most over in the company and best workers and they really f***ed up, they had him against Backlund at Mania, another feud with Lawler and crappy fueds with Yankem and Lafitte. Hakushi was so cool and even that did nothing for either of them.

King of the Ring was a great example, Shawn and Taker out first round. Where was Bulldog, Owen, Luger? Why eliminate all of those names in the qualifiers. In fact why not use Bulldog and Luger more than a pointless team that went no where.

Bam Bam could have been a massive heel off the LT thing, people like Candidio and Douglas under their own names would have been much better.

Overall the potential was actually there, they just misused everyone in the wrong roles. 1995 is always a great one to rebook as it had some cool stuff to work with, just was booked horribly.

[wildojinx]

I thought 96 was worse at the time. Even though you had stuff like Pillman/Austin, it just seemed dull compared to what was going on in WCW at the time. In retrospect they should have turned shawn heel as there was more potential there.

[thegame415]

I think the problem is the product was so out of touch. Vince thought it was 1985.

[Deleted]

Jul 24, 2014 15:09:08 GMT -5 thegame415 said:

I think the problem is the product was so out of touch. Vince thought it was 1985.

Yep, and didn't help when that ol' southern' rasslin' company with all them ol' rasslers was finding new ways to use those ol' rasslers and putting out a much more fast paced and edgy product with the debut of Nitro on Monday nights.  Hey, I was a die-hard WWE mark in those days, and I spent every Monday night ranting about how WWE was superior while keeping the channel on TNT most of the time. 

[flowercity]

Jul 24, 2014 6:56:31 GMT -5 Professor Chaos said:

It is arguably regarded as their worst year. Been rewatching the RAW's from that year and I'm up to May and they've been pretty good shows. Just a random thought.

Just wait until you get to Summerslam. A horrible, no good, rotten show.

I love WWF 96-97. Probably my favorite era of the company. I could write about 5,000 words about it.

[Hit Girl]

Transitional time. The lull before they found new stars.

[Deleted]

I didn't mind it as a youngster. I'm getting close to it on the network, so I'll see how it holds up.

Those years will always have a special place in my heart, though, because I was such a Shawn Michaels fan.

[Tony Schiavontay]

Jul 24, 2014 8:49:16 GMT -5 willyjakes said:

This was probably the first year I watched decidedly more WCW than WWF

I wasn't watching wrestling in 1995 but I sort of grew up on the 1995 period WWF through the tapes I would rent from the video store but I also have a real soft spot for WCW's ridiculous and stupid ideas. The Dungeon of Doom, that match on the back of a truck, the cage match with Hogan and Savage beating half the roster (including the return of ZEUS and Bane from Batman and Robin) and, of course, the greatest night in the history of our sport:

[Can you afford to pay me, Gah]

Jul 24, 2014 8:37:23 GMT -5 Andrew is Good said:

I was a big fan back in the day. I can see the issues due to star power problems. The King of the Ring had no star power except for Undertaker and Shawn Michaels. I also felt they really could have made Savio Vega because he was a new guy and could have been put over huge.

I really do think Diesel being the WWF Champion was the worst part of it and what brought the whole company down because he was this babyface giant. If he was a heel, or someone else was Champion, you could give more people a chance. Like a Savio Vega that I brought up.

Savio didn't show up until Mid Summer. When you look at the WWE that year the roster was thin. Diesel wasn't the problem. It was the fact HE has nobody to work with on the heel side that had real talent. I mean how is Diesel or anybody going to get great results when your facing Sid and Mabel? I defend Diesel more than once on this. Because he did everything a big man wrestler can do. Should he been the heel? maybe so. The problem was when they turned HBK. There was no real work horse heel to face him. Any face would have a problem with Sid and Mabel as you challenger. When Diesel went against Bret and HBK the matches where solid as any big man first smaller guy match there was. If Diesel was a heel he had Hart, Taker,Razor, and HBK but how do you turn HBK face without Diesel run in that would made sense?

[Joe Neglia]

Jul 24, 2014 16:15:24 GMT -5 @tafkaga said:

Jul 24, 2014 15:09:08 GMT -5 thegame415 said:

I think the problem is the product was so out of touch. Vince thought it was 1985.

Yep, and didn't help when that ol' southern' rasslin' company with all them ol' rasslers was finding new ways to use those ol' rasslers and putting out a much more fast paced and edgy product with the debut of Nitro on Monday nights.  Hey, I was a die-hard WWE mark in those days, and I spent every Monday night ranting about how WWE was superior while keeping the channel on TNT most of the time. 

In 1995, though? Nah. WCW was experiencing just as bad a dearth as WWF in that year. A lot of the promising talent from the previous 2-3 years were gone or on their way out and it was Hogan & Pals taking over but before they started doing anything worthwhile after getting there. Guys like Evad Sullivan, Beefcake, Big Bubba, Pittman, Renegade, Roma and the like were the ones getting PPV matches, as well as long-in-the-tooth Duggan, Sullivan and Kamala. It was the year of the Dungeon of Doom, Vader's entire gimmick was destroyed and there was a sumo truck match on top of a building. Meng wasn't cool yet, nor was DDP. There was nothing fast paced or edgy about 1995 WCW.

[Andrew is Good]

Jul 24, 2014 20:40:00 GMT -5 Can you afford to pay me, Gah said:

Jul 24, 2014 8:37:23 GMT -5 Andrew is Good said:

I was a big fan back in the day. I can see the issues due to star power problems. The King of the Ring had no star power except for Undertaker and Shawn Michaels. I also felt they really could have made Savio Vega because he was a new guy and could have been put over huge.

I really do think Diesel being the WWF Champion was the worst part of it and what brought the whole company down because he was this babyface giant. If he was a heel, or someone else was Champion, you could give more people a chance. Like a Savio Vega that I brought up.

Savio didn't show up until Mid Summer. When you look at the WWE that year the roster was thin. Diesel wasn't the problem. It was the fact HE has nobody to work with on the heel side that had real talent. I mean how is Diesel or anybody going to get great results when your facing Sid and Mabel? I defend Diesel more than once on this. Because he did everything a big man wrestler can do. Should he been the heel? maybe so. The problem was when they turned HBK. There was no real work horse heel to face him. Any face would have a problem with Sid and Mabel as you challenger. When Diesel went against Bret and HBK the matches where solid as any big man first smaller guy match there was. If Diesel was a heel he had Hart, Taker,Razor, and HBK but how do you turn HBK face without Diesel run in that would made sense?

Yeah, but if Diesel wasn't the top guy, you could have someone who might not be facing Sid and Mabel. The reason they put Sid and Mabel with him is because he was still the baby face, despite being the giant, so they had to find giants to pair him with. If you had a guy like Bret Hart facing off with the people they had there, I think it may've been better matches and more people would have been into it. With Shawn Michaels, Diesel still could turn face, he just didn't have to be the Champion. HBK also turned baby face after Sid beat him up the night after Wrestlemania 11.

With Savio, I guess he was in early, but he was a last minute replacement in the tournament for Razor Ramon, and instead of that bad Mabel flop and not much talent on the card, they could really put the rocket to a guy like Savio, who just debuted, he wins 4 matches, and he's off to a good start as a strong baby face.

[wildojinx]

Jul 24, 2014 20:05:07 GMT -5 flowercity said:

Just wait until you get to Summerslam. A horrible, no good, rotten show.

Actually, i thought Summerslam was a very good show, main event aside. 123 kid/Hakushi, Horowitz/Skip, Michaels/Razor, Bret/Yankem, i even have a soft spot for HHH/Holly and Taker/Kama. No defending Diesel vs Mabel though.

[Jiren]

The first half of 95 was abysmal (Rumble -Summerslam*) but the second half was OK, It started to mature a little, More stars were arriving and I liked Diesel's dark turn

*for the record I liked SS95, I meant up to SS

[Deleted]

Jul 24, 2014 20:46:27 GMT -5 Joe Neglia said:

Jul 24, 2014 16:15:24 GMT -5 @tafkaga said:

Yep, and didn't help when that ol' southern' rasslin' company with all them ol' rasslers was finding new ways to use those ol' rasslers and putting out a much more fast paced and edgy product with the debut of Nitro on Monday nights.  Hey, I was a die-hard WWE mark in those days, and I spent every Monday night ranting about how WWE was superior while keeping the channel on TNT most of the time. 

In 1995, though? Nah. WCW was experiencing just as bad a dearth as WWF in that year. A lot of the promising talent from the previous 2-3 years were gone or on their way out and it was Hogan & Pals taking over but before they started doing anything worthwhile after getting there. Guys like Evad Sullivan, Beefcake, Big Bubba, Pittman, Renegade, Roma and the like were the ones getting PPV matches, as well as long-in-the-tooth Duggan, Sullivan and Kamala. It was the year of the Dungeon of Doom, Vader's entire gimmick was destroyed and there was a sumo truck match on top of a building. Meng wasn't cool yet, nor was DDP. There was nothing fast paced or edgy about 1995 WCW.

You're right in all the examples you gave, but I'm specifically referring to when Nitro debuted on Monday nights.  It may not be what people consider "edgy" compared to what WWE was doing in '98-'00, but it was very edgy for 1995.  Almost every week was some kind of a big reveal, lines blurred between good guys and bad guys, and on top of that they were still usually fitting three big matches into an hour time slot.  

[champviadq]

T.L. Hopper.

Enough Said.