Chip
Hank Scorpio
Slam Jam Death.
Posts: 5,185
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Post by Chip on Jul 25, 2014 10:18:01 GMT -5
I remember the reaction at the time being pure fear over the idea that Hunter may keep doing this every few months until he got the desired reaction.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jul 25, 2014 10:41:29 GMT -5
Acknowledging tapping out as an acceptable option removes that..
That was pretty much multiple posters exact point.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jul 25, 2014 10:50:06 GMT -5
Acknowledging tapping out as an acceptable option removes that.. That was pretty much multiple posters exact point. how do things I say keep going so far over people's heads? If the fans who chant "You tapped out" acknowledge tapping out as an acceptable option then they couldn't do it anymore. Obviously they want to do it or they wouldn't bother doing it now. That means whatever storyline change WWE tries to do to say tapping out is okay if you have to do it would be no sold by the fans who want to do the chant
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TGM
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,073
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Post by TGM on Jul 25, 2014 10:58:16 GMT -5
They had to have Triple H go out there and cut a retirement esque promo the next night because of the bad reaction after the match, The problem is that HHH as much of a student of the game he is and how much of a creative mind he has, he was not a star, he was there because he made the likes of Austin/Rock/Undertaker/Michaels look good, that was it, he was never a star. Is that you Bret Hart?
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Post by Kash Flagg on Jul 25, 2014 10:59:22 GMT -5
I agree people would say "you tapped out" to Cena...BUT it also boils down to who the person is. I don't think they'd chant that to someone like Daniel Bryan. It only seems to be people that either get shoved down their throats, or people they just don't give a shit about.
Someone like Cena would likely take the chant in and admit that he did. He's doesn't seem to get butthurt about it like some wrestlers do.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 11:08:55 GMT -5
Yeah, this was definitely one of those times where I was like, "OK. We get it, HHH."
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Jul 25, 2014 15:05:50 GMT -5
Acknowledging tapping out as an acceptable option removes that.. That was pretty much multiple posters exact point. how do things I say keep going so far over people's heads? If the fans who chant "You tapped out" acknowledge tapping out as an acceptable option then they couldn't do it anymore. Obviously they want to do it or they wouldn't bother doing it now. That means whatever storyline change WWE tries to do to say tapping out is okay if you have to do it would be no sold by the fans who want to do the chant Because, and I'm not trolling you here, 9 times out of 10 they don't make any sense. The impetus is on YOU to be understood, not the other way around. If so many people either mock what you say, or just don't get it, wouldn't common sense have to kick in eventually and maybe you'd ask yourself "Is it me?" I mean, what's more likely, EVERYONE is just that ignorant, or YOUR perception might be askew? That said, if the crowd wants to have the pavlovian response of chanting "you tapped out!" it's because WWE, through ignorance and not understanding real fight psychology, created or at least perpetuated the belief that it is somehow shameful to tap out or submit. They then encouraged such chants for years. WWE was the egg, and the 'you tapped out' chicken sprung from that. It's their fault.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jul 25, 2014 15:25:57 GMT -5
I block your posts to be honest mrjl, and only see em when someone quotes you; but lemme just say for the record: There's never been anything you've posted, ever, that's gone over my head.
You really should stop this attitude that somehow you're the lone intellectual voice in the wilderness; particularly when your arguments are always so flawed and falsifiable.
Subjective opinions are gonna vary for everyone, naturally. What you do though, more often than not, is act as if your opinion holds more logical weight. You do this in spite of mountains of evidence to the contrary.
That's what people jump on your case about.
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67 more
King Koopa
He's just a Sexy Kurt
Posts: 11,491
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Post by 67 more on Jul 25, 2014 16:44:02 GMT -5
That said, if the crowd wants to have the pavlovian response of chanting "you tapped out!" it's because WWE, through ignorance and not understanding real fight psychology, created or at least perpetuated the belief that it is somehow shameful to tap out or submit. They then encouraged such chants for years. WWE was the egg, and the 'you tapped out' chicken sprung from that. It's their fault. It always bugs me when say Kofi or Ryder gets caught in the cross armbreaker and Michael Cole's all "well, they had no choice" then Sheamus or Cena get locked in it for 20 minutes and it's all "look at the toughness of this man", never "just tap before you suffer serious injury, you fool!" I'd like to see WWE and all wrestling switch their booking of submissions from seeing how long someone can suffer through, to how well the wrestler can avoid getting locked in the hold at all. Make a heel's submission finisher actually a finisher. If it's locked in, you tap. If you happen to get to the ropes, it's because you're already by them and you haven't just dragged your opponent across the damn ring.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jul 25, 2014 17:22:35 GMT -5
how do things I say keep going so far over people's heads? If the fans who chant "You tapped out" acknowledge tapping out as an acceptable option then they couldn't do it anymore. Obviously they want to do it or they wouldn't bother doing it now. That means whatever storyline change WWE tries to do to say tapping out is okay if you have to do it would be no sold by the fans who want to do the chant Because, and I'm not trolling you here, 9 times out of 10 they don't make any sense. The impetus is on YOU to be understood, not the other way around. If so many people either mock what you say, or just don't get it, wouldn't common sense have to kick in eventually and maybe you'd ask yourself "Is it me?" I mean, what's more likely, EVERYONE is just that ignorant, or YOUR perception might be askew? That said, if the crowd wants to have the pavlovian response of chanting "you tapped out!" it's because WWE, through ignorance and not understanding real fight psychology, created or at least perpetuated the belief that it is somehow shameful to tap out or submit. They then encouraged such chants for years. WWE was the egg, and the 'you tapped out' chicken sprung from that. It's their fault. I AM trying to make myself clear. Hell, that's what I was talking about when I wrote the post you're replying too. A lot of the time when people are criticizing my ideas they aren't even criticizing exactly what I meant. I mean I have NO IDEA why Sean felt the need to remind me that I said Brock should always lose. As far as I know I never recanted or denied it. I don't think I'm the lone intellectual voice in the wilderness(as Kevin Hamilton put it below) I feel like this is happening to me : the last panel specifically
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Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
Posts: 18,108
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Jul 25, 2014 17:24:32 GMT -5
I understand from a business sense why Lesnar has to be so strong.
But he's such an asshat IRL that I don't ever want to see him succeed.
That's why Summerslam is gonna be a tough watch for me, because they can't both lose.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jul 25, 2014 17:28:48 GMT -5
That said, if the crowd wants to have the pavlovian response of chanting "you tapped out!" it's because WWE, through ignorance and not understanding real fight psychology, created or at least perpetuated the belief that it is somehow shameful to tap out or submit. They then encouraged such chants for years. WWE was the egg, and the 'you tapped out' chicken sprung from that. It's their fault. It always bugs me when say Kofi or Ryder gets caught in the cross armbreaker and Michael Cole's all "well, they had no choice" then Sheamus or Cena get locked in it for 20 minutes and it's all "look at the toughness of this man", never "just tap before you suffer serious injury, you fool!" I'd like to see WWE and all wrestling switch their booking of submissions from seeing how long someone can suffer through, to how well the wrestler can avoid getting locked in the hold at all. Make a heel's submission finisher actually a finisher. If it's locked in, you tap. If you happen to get to the ropes, it's because you're already by them and you haven't just dragged your opponent across the damn ring. Vince loves the long slow crawl to the ropes and even in the NWA I think more than a few guys managed that with Flair's figure four so I'm not sure it'd be something Trips would be looking to get rid of. Really, it's not the announcer's job to be concerned about the health of the wrestlers, especially for risks they choose to take like holding on in a submission hold. In fact simply declaring that Kofi or Ryder had no choice but to tap is putting them over more than they had to. They could comment on how someone like Cena or Sheamus lasts in the hold for a long time, or say they'll never get anywhere unless they can learn to tough that sort of thing out.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jul 25, 2014 17:34:39 GMT -5
I agree people would say "you tapped out" to Cena...BUT it also boils down to who the person is. I don't think they'd chant that to someone like Daniel Bryan. It only seems to be people that either get shoved down their throats, or people they just don't give a shit about. Someone like Cena would likely take the chant in and admit that he did. He's doesn't seem to get butthurt about it like some wrestlers do. as I understand they chanted it at Brock when he tapped to Angle
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 17:48:59 GMT -5
I understand from a business sense why Lesnar has to be so strong. But he's such an asshat IRL that I don't ever want to see him succeed. That's why Summerslam is gonna be a tough watch for me, because they can't both lose. Just out of curiosity why is Brock an asshat in your opinion?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 17:51:53 GMT -5
One of the funniest things I've ever seen.
Triple H, the same guy that who while in a feud with his best friend Shawn Michaels, ends up attacking him from behind in a parking lot and then pretends to be his friend again only to find out it was a heel turn within a heel turn. That guy trying to get sympathy? In front of the fans?
That's hilarious no matter how you cut it.
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Post by Aboutreika18 on Jul 25, 2014 18:32:44 GMT -5
I've never been able to take HHH seriously as a babyface, his look and mannerisms in general have never been endearing to fans and he does little to change his character whether face or heel.
I think the nadir of this was HHH as the babyface invading Orton's house and destroying it with a sledgehammer.
I always get the feeling it's just HHH doing what he likes rather than seriously attempting to connect with the crowd. He's a natural bonafide heel and should always be portrayed as the antagonist in any feud or storyline.
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Post by sunnytaker on Jul 25, 2014 20:17:03 GMT -5
Triple H isn't a sympathetic guy. He just isn't. Some guys can pull it off but he can't. I don't know why they tried to portray him in such a way. that's why HHH keeps his "in case of lack of sympathy break glass for HBK beatdown" container around.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jul 25, 2014 20:18:59 GMT -5
Triple H isn't a sympathetic guy. He just isn't. Some guys can pull it off but he can't. I don't know why they tried to portray him in such a way. that's why HHH keeps his "in case of lack of sympathy break glass for HBK beatdown" container around. what about his post invasion return?
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Post by sunnytaker on Jul 25, 2014 20:44:23 GMT -5
which one was that? the post-quad injury return?
if so he got the big "welcome back" reaction despite being a heel when he was injured and went back to beeing a heel in relatively short order upon returning. but i don;t find that reaction as HHH being sympathetic (most returning stars will get a big responce when they comeback from injury). Now finishing the match WITH the injury and having to be carried off afterwards would have been more appropriate as far as being seen as sympathetic but i think the crowd was a bit confused as to whether the injury was real or not to give him that response.
also that return was pre-reign of terror where he became the lord of infinite nicknames and people started to get sick of seeing him at the top all the time which hurt HHH down the line as far as getting sympathy which has resulted in the recent HBK beatdowns (or steph in the case with orton) because on his own HHH doesn;t get that sort of reaction from the fans in general.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jul 25, 2014 21:35:51 GMT -5
Because, and I'm not trolling you here, 9 times out of 10 they don't make any sense. The impetus is on YOU to be understood, not the other way around. If so many people either mock what you say, or just don't get it, wouldn't common sense have to kick in eventually and maybe you'd ask yourself "Is it me?" I mean, what's more likely, EVERYONE is just that ignorant, or YOUR perception might be askew? That said, if the crowd wants to have the pavlovian response of chanting "you tapped out!" it's because WWE, through ignorance and not understanding real fight psychology, created or at least perpetuated the belief that it is somehow shameful to tap out or submit. They then encouraged such chants for years. WWE was the egg, and the 'you tapped out' chicken sprung from that. It's their fault. I AM trying to make myself clear. Hell, that's what I was talking about when I wrote the post you're replying too. A lot of the time when people are criticizing my ideas they aren't even criticizing exactly what I meant. I mean I have NO IDEA why Sean felt the need to remind me that I said Brock should always lose. As far as I know I never recanted or denied it. I don't think I'm the lone intellectual voice in the wilderness(as Kevin Hamilton put it below) I feel like this is happening to me : the last panel specifically Are you the dog?
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