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Post by AwamoriRock on Jul 27, 2014 19:35:32 GMT -5
It's not crap. The nice guys being referred to are those that fit the stereotype/character (no different than a bro, hipster, neck beard, mra, hippy, etc.) of manipulative dicks that play super-nice friend to a girl when they are really only after sexual gain. I don't think anybody is calling genuinely nice people secretive dbags. Don't be nice to girls, guys. Because it's just you wanting sex in disguise. Better to treat them like crap, because that shows confidence! I'm assuming this straw man is just you having nothing to offer or some kinda repressed personal slight--neither of which show much willingness to understand what is going on here.
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ibdude
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Post by ibdude on Jul 27, 2014 19:37:13 GMT -5
It's not crap. The nice guys being referred to are those that fit the stereotype/character (no different than a bro, hipster, neck beard, mra, hippy, etc.) of manipulative dicks that play super-nice friend to a girl when they are really only after sexual gain. I don't think anybody is calling genuinely nice people secretive dbags. Don't be nice to girls, guys. Because it's just you wanting sex in disguise. Better to treat them like crap, because that shows confidence! Don't treat them like crap, but stand your ground, be firm, believe in yourself, stand up for yourself, etc. Don't be a pushover or a wuss.
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Jul 27, 2014 19:37:49 GMT -5
Don't be nice to girls, guys. Because it's just you wanting sex in disguise. Better to treat them like crap, because that shows confidence! I'm assuming this straw man is just you having nothing to offer or some kinda repressed personal slight--neither of which show much willingness to understand what is going on here. It's pretty much what all these threads generally amount to in the end.
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Post by AwamoriRock on Jul 27, 2014 19:41:27 GMT -5
I'm assuming this straw man is just you having nothing to offer or some kinda repressed personal slight--neither of which show much willingness to understand what is going on here. It's pretty much what all these threads generally amount to in the end. I think you're missing the point. There is a term "Nice Guy" that specifically refers to people who manipulate and fake sincerity hoping for affection in return. They are the ones being crapped on, here. If you're genuinely just a guy who is nice, there is no problem with that and it's great. I can understand frustration at the way it can cause somebody to mistakenly brand you as a dick, but there are actual people like that out there that are worthy of ridicule.
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Welfare Willis
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Post by Welfare Willis on Jul 27, 2014 19:43:13 GMT -5
Ultimately it's about confidence. Bad boys seem like the get more girls because they hit on more girls. I just think they're not afraid to hit on women like so called "nice" guys.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jul 27, 2014 19:44:00 GMT -5
It's not crap. The nice guys being referred to are those that fit the stereotype/character (no different than a bro, hipster, neck beard, mra, hippy, etc.) of manipulative dicks that play super-nice friend to a girl when they are really only after sexual gain. I don't think anybody is calling genuinely nice people secretive dbags. Don't be nice to girls, guys. Because it's just you wanting sex in disguise. Better to treat them like crap, because that shows confidence! I guess a better way to put it would be that women want the same thing all people want: genuine kindness. Same thing with being genuinely nice, where one does it simply because they want to make their partner happy. Nothing wrong with that, it's what you're supposed to do. That's the opposite of the "nice guy" (note the quotations) others in this thread have described- someone who only does nice things for another just to potentially get some ass as a reward. Those relationships tend not to last that long.
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Jul 27, 2014 19:47:26 GMT -5
If I want to maybe talk to a girl and potentially get a date with her, it just makes sense to be nice to her. I don't want someone yelling that I'm just being nice to get in her pants.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Jul 27, 2014 19:54:10 GMT -5
If you make it clear that you're interested in her sexually and you're nice because you like her as a person or aren't an asshole and are just decent than you're not being A Nice Guy (tm) A Nice Guy (tm) is someone who acts nice to get a piece of ass because they're too scared at admit that's that they want.
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Post by MC Blowfish on Jul 27, 2014 19:58:06 GMT -5
I love these threads.
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Post by Hakumental on Jul 27, 2014 20:57:24 GMT -5
Not immediately related to the subject, but some advice I'd offer, based on my thoughts over the last several years:
Whatever kind of guy you'd like to be, have dignity. Too many guys, regardless of their disposition, don't have a sense of self-worth. I think many well-meaning people fall into this trap, relationships included. (This is where you see the word doormat come up.) If anyone - man or woman - asks you to do something that they'd ask a butler or service staff to do (hold my drink, watch my cat while I'm out of town, let me keep something in your garage for "a while", etc.), and you're inclined to immediately accept just because "it's the nice thing to do", question that impulse. Bear in mind whether you're being asked to provide assistance, or asked to provide a convenience. They aren't the same thing, and shouldn't be confused with each other.
Sometimes, the dignified response to a situation (including relationships) is not the cuddliest. Not that it's rude or mean, either, but "firm" is a good word to keep in mind. Having some humor about things helps, too.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jul 27, 2014 21:38:22 GMT -5
If I want to maybe talk to a girl and potentially get a date with her, it just makes sense to be nice to her. I don't want someone yelling that I'm just being nice to get in her pants. Yeah, but with the attitude you have had, that's where red flags come up immediately. What you said earlier, "don't be nice to girls, guys" in that sarcastic tone, that's what people talk about when it comes to their annoyance with nice guys. If you're saying stuff like that, to me, it does question how genuine you are with them. And yeah, like, if you're nice to her, that doesn't automatically mean you can date her, or get to date her. Maybe there was something that didn't click with her. Before meeting my girlfriend, I dated tons of girls, mostly through online dating, and I consider myself a very nice guy. I even had a girlfriend for a few months from that. But sometimes it doesn't work out, for different reasons. Just because you're nice to a girl you want to date, that doesn't entitle you to date them, and that's how you come across, and how many "nice guys" come across, and I feel you lack that self awareness to realize that. And then you talk about like, oh this is how this thread boils down to. And this is why I feel you lack that self awareness, because you're blaming other people for your own shortcomings. And maybe it's not shortcomings. But you're blaming other people for not wanting to date you, or even if they're not interested, there's something inherently wrong with them. And I'm not just trying to bury you, I did that too. But back then, I didn't have that self awareness.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 27, 2014 21:47:57 GMT -5
I agree with the comment that was made that at least bad boys are upfront in terms of what they want. In defense of they nice boys who become the Nice Guys I will say that I think there is this false cultural narrative that respecting a woman and being a male feminist and finding a woman really sexually attractive are at odds. They are not. Those nice boys are taught that wanting sex is bad unless you mask it. Interesting point you bring up, and it's one that plays into feminist theory, as well; the patriarchal system (again, not a cabal of old white men chomping cigars, just the general arc of Western society since approximately the Middle Ages) hurts men and women both, albeit women more directly. Part of the issue is that the system we've put in place shames people when it comes to matters of sex, places an undue amount of emphasis on a man's worth and "manhood" based almost entirely on his success with the opposite sex, and in general makes us confused and driven nuts about what matters most to us, how we're supposed to deal with women, etc. Sadly, many men take the "I'm entitled" route, but many are also genuinely confused and feel they don't belong in the system as it has been constructed. I think part of what you're pointing to is a fear of rejection; that's a fear that's natural to everybody, but it's a fear that's amplified for men within the system that places such a huge emphasis on sexual "conquest" (and various other really uncomfortable words to describe the way society perceives physical, romantic relationships). Ergo, many guys wind up taking the "Nice Guy" route thanks to that fear of rejection. I do think we should make a clarification about "confidence", though; rather than interpret that too much as "don't be a doormat" (which, don't get me wrong, nobody should subject themselves to), I'd also interpret it as being comfortable being a guy who can talk to a woman, find her attractive, even attempt to hit on her on some level, but be perfectly content with it if she doesn't reciprocate your feelings. Given what I just said about the ridiculousness of the system we've built over millenia, to me THAT really counts as confidence, being able to say "eh, it's cool, it was still nice getting to talk to you." Banjo, no offense dude, but I think you're reading most of these threads wrong. Anyone who speaks against the phony "Nice Guy" personality type also feels it's important for guys to be legitimately respectful of women when interacting with them, even when we're hitting on them. There is literally nothing wrong with talking to a woman and having a sexual and/or romantic interest in her, and everybody would hope that a guy who feels that way would talk to, listen to, and treat the woman he's interested with a decent level of dignity and respect. It really only becomes a problem when a guy acts that way, gets rejected, and then turns that into an excuse to start thinking that all women are "crazy", that they only want scumbags, that they don't know what's best for them, blah blah blah blah. I totally get when guys need to vent (BELIEVE me, I've been there before, we all have), but a truly nice guy knows how to distinguish "Eh, she wasn't interested in me" from "Why do these lunatics only want jerks?!".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2014 21:58:16 GMT -5
In my experience, dummy girls are finally ready to embrace the nice guy when they push towards their thirties, at least some of them.
I'm talking legit nice though. The faux nice do okay the whole time, because they are sociopaths.
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Post by "Magic" Mark Hurr on Jul 27, 2014 22:05:57 GMT -5
Well if you know a guy who is for the most part a piece of shit and he still has women who fall for his BS and get caught up and Don't mind his penchant for unprotected sex then he did you a favor and showed you who the hoes were.
And a lot of nice guys come from a linear way of thinking and there experiences haven't caught up to reality. Their communication skills are limited because of they lack that breaking point where they ascend to Traveled Man Knowledge. And they lack the understanding of the female experience or what it is to live in a woman's world. Words and actions are different. The way they interpret our man dumbness is different. There is depth within our simplicity that they aren't taught when they busy being chased by cooze-hounds and misinformed by older dumb self-absorbed women.
"Nice" can be translated to oblivious like "bad" can be translated to excitement.
You have to be somewhat exciting to a woman or provide a sense a newness that she thinks she needs. The element of suprise is what you need to harness and she needs to sense progression in you.
Don't worry about being a nice guy or a bad guy. Concentrate on being more than average. And remember no woman should be treated poorly, but not every woman should have access to how good you could treat them.
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Jul 27, 2014 22:31:37 GMT -5
Not sure how any nice guy has a chance with this guy around.
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Jul 27, 2014 23:14:44 GMT -5
Yeah, but with the attitude you have had, that's where red flags come up immediately. What you said earlier, "don't be nice to girls, guys" in that sarcastic tone, that's what people talk about when it comes to their annoyance with nice guys. If you're saying stuff like that, to me, it does question how genuine you are with them. I'm just expressing how annoyed I am with the idea that being nice means I have some ulterior motive. What about that makes me seem disingenuous? And yeah, like, if you're nice to her, that doesn't automatically mean you can date her, or get to date her. Maybe there was something that didn't click with her. Before meeting my girlfriend, I dated tons of girls, mostly through online dating, and I consider myself a very nice guy. I even had a girlfriend for a few months from that. But sometimes it doesn't work out, for different reasons. I never said I was entitled to date anyone. I get that girls are going to say no, but that doesn't mean that I can't feel disappointed about it. Getting rejected does that to people. And this is why I feel you lack that self awareness, because you're blaming other people for your own shortcomings. And maybe it's not shortcomings. But you're blaming other people for not wanting to date you, or even if they're not interested, there's something inherently wrong with them. And I'm not just trying to bury you, I did that too. But back then, I didn't have that self awareness. I'm not blaming anybody for my shortcomings. I get it, I suck and all, but I was annoyed by the idea that this thread seemed to be projecting. That being nice to someone is just a front for people who really aren't nice. I can be nice to girls, and if they reject me, it's cause they're not interested. I don't blame them, but like I said, nobody likes rejection.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 27, 2014 23:48:15 GMT -5
I'd like to butt in and say that it seems dumb to gender the "fake nice" crowd as just guys, and forgetting that girls end up committing this kind of thing as well, and it being more of a coping mechanism than anything that people go through. Funny to have people act outraged over treating women as acting the same, and yet do it themselves in another way.
That's all.
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agent817
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Post by agent817 on Jul 27, 2014 23:56:47 GMT -5
An old friend of mine used to give a lot of crap about how I don't actively pursue women like he does, often telling me he had bedded many women and all that stuff. What is it with guys and having this dude-bro mentality that they sort of respect someone who manages to score or get women? Even if one were to get turned down, a guy will still tease someone for getting shot down. I don't ask out women that much, but I can admit that last fall, I remember managing to get a number from some girl who worked a merchandise stand at a conference I attended. We exchanged numbers and I remember trying to text her, but to no avail and I just sort of gave up after that. However, some people I know gave me some respect for it. At least I can say that I tried. But some guys would just tease someone because he wasn't successful. However, my old friend is known for landing some insecure women and all that stuff. Sometimes I ask myself if I am not charismatic enough to get a woman to like me and whatnot. Sure, it's usually up to the woman whether she likes a guy or not, but I see the way some guys to talk to women and they seem to know how to attract. I can tell you that I remember trying to be nice to some girl who I had a class with who I had a feeling didn't like me too much. Maybe not dislike me, but she was kind of apathetic towards me or maybe she was a tough nut to crack like someone else told me. Other times, some people have told me that a woman was checking me out and such, but I never really got any vibe that a woman was interested in me, probably because I couldn't tell.
I have been there many times when a woman is being kind to me. I am usually under the belief that she is just being cool and not being flirtatious.
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Post by Danimal on Jul 28, 2014 0:12:29 GMT -5
Ultimately it's about confidence. Bad boys seem like the get more girls because they hit on more girls. I just think they're not afraid to hit on women like so called "nice" guys. Good point, it's like the episode of King of the Hill where they follow Boomhauer to find-out his secret with women. Turned-out it was just a numbers game, guy just kept going back to the plate til he got a hit. As far as the whole "nice guy" thing goes you should be being nice to everyone simply because it's the right thing to do and makes the world a better place. Of course it's douchey to act nice just to get what you want or stupid to think that because you're nice you are owed anything other than niceness/respect in return.
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Glitch
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Post by Glitch on Jul 28, 2014 0:43:02 GMT -5
Douchebags have ruined the word "nice guy". It's a shame for the all guys that are actually nice. From now on, the actual good hearted guys will be referred to as "noice guys".
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