jagilki
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by jagilki on Jul 30, 2014 1:48:27 GMT -5
This is my first time seeing this thread. I just wish I had time to read all 58 pages of it. We've basically went trough all the stages of death. I think We've been giving Dixie more shit than Russo. Today, I've learned that flat out mockery is a stage of death.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 30, 2014 2:05:08 GMT -5
We've basically went trough all the stages of death. I think We've been giving Dixie more shit than Russo. Today, I've learned that flat out mockery is a stage of death. If there is a FAN Thread Hall of Fame (I am all for that by the way.), this is an honorary Inductee.
This Thread is literally 59 Pages, and more to come surely, of absolute GOLD. I'm so glad I'm a huge part of that
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Post by benstudd on Jul 30, 2014 3:18:34 GMT -5
I know I posted something similar earlier in the thread but here's what I posted immediately following Lockdown 2014. Sweet chocolate Christ, I actually checked out the PPV last night because I was fairly interested in at least the top two matches of the night as well as seeing the Great Muta. Well at least the Muta match didn't disappoint me. That f***ing finish for the title match. Then that finish for Lethal Lockdown! Who the ass was clamouring for someone to climb out of a hole in the ring? I mean ever. The best part of that segment was the implication that whoever was in the hole failed miserably as Joe emerged moments later looking more annoyed and pissed than hurt. Then Abyss helps Magnus retain the title to all the heat of a penguin's frozen asshole in what apparently was yet another instance of TNA cribbing from WWE by having the masked monster take his mask off and then join the heel authority figure's group of miscreants. Woohoo, good job TNA. Then the main event happened. Who exactly wanted Buddy Ray to return? And before anyone says, "Wait and see." No. You piss off right now. I've been a regular TNA viewer since the early days when an eleven year old Hawk Jefferson relied on the internet for results and the weekly pre-PPV show to see highlights of what happened the week before because no f***ing way was I asking my mom for $10 a week to watch wrestling and even going back to those days the wait and see attitude has lead to nothing but disappointment. TNA takes the easiest route to appeal to the lowest common denominator of fans and that's why they're in the shitter at least creatively. In my 12 years as a regular TNA viewer, I've been very cyclic in my viewing habits. As I said, I had a pretty hood way of keeping up with the product in late 2002 through the end of PPV Era but I did, every week. Even into the FSN days when I'd rush home immediately after school on Fridays to watch Impact at 4pm. Not to mention actually watching the 30 minute pre-show to every PPV straight through the early Spike days because I ordered the WWE PPV most months when I could until I got a job, at 15 (2006) that let me order basically every show TNA put on PPV because I was that into the product. Then in late 2007 I really stopped caring, the product got really lame and juvenile in my eyes and paled in comparison to some of the alternative stuff I was watching regularly at the time. They didn't hook me again as a full time viewer until 2009 and I stuck around until the Hogan and Bischoff fiasco and actually came back just in time to be pushed right back out the f***ing door by the Immortal stuff and the only thing that got me back was A Double winning the title, then the Storm/Roode mess happened but I stayed TNA true until the Aces and 8s shenanigans and just now came back around only to be handed that f***ing mess we got last night. The point of what I'm saying is, I've legitimately tried for more than a decade to give TNA a chance and they've just kept dicking me over. This is why you can't keep a fanbase TNA. This is why you can't grow a fanbase. It's why moving out of the Impact Zone was an on-going failed experiment and it's why that's was a step you should've taken years ago but just have in the last few years, too late for it to matter. And this is why your home grown talent that originally hooked new fans who were interested in seeing guys they had never seen and couldn't really see anywhere else is abandoning you. The only thing you learn from your mistakes is you could possibly f*** up even harder the next time around. I want to say I'm done with them I really do but I know in six months I'll right back in that curious, "lemme give 'em another chance" spot I was in recently. TNA is just like a girlfriend that repeatedly f***s your friends but you keep taking her back because you see her potential to not be a total f***ing skeezer. TL;DR: "Lockdown was shitty," says 12 year attempted TNA fan. Will not give up on product, plans to continue angrily grumbling online. Amidst the whole shitty booking since Magnus got the belt, I'm convinced that if at Lockdown Joe had come out of the hole bloody and pissed like he was and choke Magnus and win the belt, it would have been satisfying for several wrestling fans. Hell there was no reason even to keep Magnus champ as TNA did not even care about him that much as he lost the strap to EY shortly after. Doing that, Joe would have been restored as a monster again and become "the" guy in the company as champ.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 3:51:49 GMT -5
I cant believe I am actually going to say this
Is it really all Dixie's fault?
I mean, what does she know about pro wrestling? She has hired a boat load of people to teach her pro wrestling and help her run a wrestling company and just like WCW they have who have taken her for every penney they could. Isn't it really their fault?
They are wrestlers and bookers who are suppost to be in a secret club and often spout the garbage "I love the business, I would take a bullet for the business etc" Yet for the second time, they have taken the money and run.
Kevin Sullivan at least had the guts to admit that they had a golden goose in WCW and cut its head off. No one else has ever admitted any wrong doing at all. I am willing to be it with be the same story here too.
Lets face it if you hire someone to do a job for you, then they should do that job. If I hire you to mow my lawn, then if you don't do it, how am I the idiot?
Dixie should have known better......how?
The company she bought was born in a cold streak. WWE had chased away more than half of the wrestling audience with the stupid Invasion and Katy Vick angles. Jeff Jarrett wanted a company that he was the star of, problem was...he isn't a star. As if that wasn't bad enough the only time he had been a top dog was in WCW in 2000. The worst year for WCW.
For Jeff it a damn good year. Multiple world title reigns and all over the main event scene. The audience was shrinking at an insane rate and those who were left were booing everything...but who cares when your finally the man. After a long career as a bland mid carder Jeff was king. So years later when he created TNA, ho of course wanted it to be like WCW 2000. He wanted to be king again. The problem is that TNA immediately gained a reputation as a laughing stock and was a complete non starter.
Frankly Dixie saved Jeff's ungrateful ass. So she now owned a company that she thought would be fun and almost definitely had dozens of people in her ear telling her she would make millions like WCW did and get to be on tv! They told her she should buy this guy and that guy. They told her Bryan Danielson and CM Punk were not good enough, but the Road Dogg and Billy Gunn were money.
So what Dixie really bought was a company with a name she couldn't market, that had a reputation as a bad joke, with completely incompetant staff. Again these people were hired to help her find new talent and to bring in people to help boost the company. They instead brought in their friends for free pay days...again.
Are any of you really going to tell me, Taz doesn't know better? He was in ECW and WWE. He has seen it done right. How about Al Snow? In WWF for years and also in ECW. HE also knows what's good. So why is the show crap?
Simple: To quote Shawn Michaels "They want the money, they want the spotlight. But they don't want to do anything". He was talking about the stars of the 80's. But doesn't it sum up TNA backstage? I mean come on? Did anyone even watch the show??
Lets be really honest here. In every other industry, bringing in the equivalent of Hulk Hogan and Eric Bishoff would be a master stroke. I'm pretty sure Hulk merch sold well for TNA the whole time he was there too. Both men could have really helped TNA build its brand and ensure the right wrestlers were in the right spots.
But the blame is on Dixie for not knowing that they were egotistical and self centered. How could she know that Hogan still wanted to be bell of the ball and would just undermine all of her current stars? Its easy for us to say it as we have been complaining about WCW for years now. How would Dixie know?
When its all said and done. She was sold a lemon. And was repeated screwed by crooked mechanics who took her money and fixed nothing over the years until the car finally fell apart.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 30, 2014 3:55:11 GMT -5
I cant believe I am actually going to say this Is it really all Dixie's fault? Yes.
She Lied, she manipulated, she turned a deaf ear to people, she wanted to be a star at the expense of the company,. she wanted Russo's help at the expense of her TV Deal. She released wrestlers and chose to kept the ones around no one cared about.
The blame can rest on several other people who had a stake in the company but the fact of the matter is she is the main reason TNA is the way it is right now. And you can use the excuse of people using her and the wrestlers not wanting to do anything, but the fact of the matter is, she chose to run this ship the way she wanted to, by letting people do what the hell they wanted with her Daddy's Money, and then being underhanded about it. She's no victim. She's a main cause.
That's just how it is.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 30, 2014 4:24:51 GMT -5
I don't know if I'll be able to top Dragonfly's lament, but I can at least give my personal reflection after all this time.
I started watching TNA religiously in like 2007, before then I had seen bits and pieces, but when I started watching, I was hooked. Interesting Storylines, Old and New Wrestlers alike to get you hooked and get you excited for the future. Some guys honestly treated way better than they were in the E and could show their full potential. Interesting matches like King of the Mountain, Six Sides of Steel, Lockdown, and the World X Cup, Monsters Ball, The Knockouts Division. This was a company I could totally get behind. Was it all perfect? No, but it was an alternative, as people said, to what WWE was putting out at the time, which was Cena vs Orton, so it was a damn good alternative.
Then Hogan showed up.
I was worried about this from the start, Hogan coming in. They were making a huge deal about it and all but honestly...the matches and content hadn't changed TOO much, in fact I think the Pay Per View before Hogans debut featured Angle vs Desmond Wolfe in Lockdown in frankly one of the better TNA matches I've ever seen. I thought Maybe Hogan would enhance what TNA was, and not change it for his own personal gain
How F***ing wrong I was...
Hogan bought in guys who just were not needed, or wanted. Bischoff, BROOKE, Val Venus (Sean Morley), The Nasty Boys, Hall Nash and Pac, Hardy, Flair, Orlando Jordan and a Bottle of White Stuff, Anderson, and Brian Kendrick. I was most ok with Kendrick, I didn't hate Anderson or Hardy until later really but they didn't blow me away. Then these guys started going OVER TNA talent we came to care about. Nasty Boys over Dudleys. Nash, Hall, and Pac over Eric Young, Morley over Daniels, Bubba The Love Sponge basically getting rid of Awesome Kong because he's a low life prick, Bischoff basically killing the Knockouts Division further turning it's "No Diva's" Mentality into Soft Core Porn and getting rid of stars like Alyssa Flash, Hamada, Gail Kim for the time being, and more, and leaving it just as bad as the WWE Divas Division was then. The X Division would suffer the same fates, guys like The Young Bucks who had been bought in prior to Hogan's arrival and looked like instant stars basically died in a matter of weeks under the new booking regime. Taz replacing Don West on commentary... that says it all itself. The World X Cup, King of the Mountain, and Six Sides of Steel gotten rid of, because they changed the 6 Sides to 4. And of course... Victory Road, 2011.
We had watched TNA painfully change from TNA to Impact Wrestling, or what we basically called it, WCW 2014.
Bischoff and Hogan just ran it into the ground for Paychecks, even getting their kids in there, Brooke and Garrett, to shamelessly make big names or try and use as much as possible. They made it all about them, and really just bought things down with their booking, none more apparent than when Desmond Wolfe, who won an online poll to face RVD for the title, got SQUASHED for it, and then jobbed out as they redid the poll and rigged it for Sting. Because yeah, that "Wrestling Matters" slogan really shined through there, and it really showed how they cared about the fans.
TNA turned into the whore of wrestling, shamelessly taking anything they could, and making it their own half assed thing. ECW Reunions, Flair blading every week, Hogan and Sting, The X Division Title basically becoming a Money in the Bank, Eric Young becoming their Daniel Bryan except done in every wrong way possible, Faction upon Faction upon FACTION that just were dominant for a week and then were just there until destroyed. The Swerves, and Swerves, and SWERVES. And maybe the most ungodly sin of all, trying to make Earl Hebner a face in 2014, or ever.
You can say it wasn't all Dixie's Fault, but when Hogan and Bischoff and Flair and basically all the excess that held TNA down for a good 2 and a half years left, it didn't get better, it got worse. The Knockouts Division is basically the same 3-4 Women every week, the X Division Title is only made important once a year, the rest of it is the same 3-4 guys fighting for it every week, and the World Title is basically just there for whatever faction wants to claim the others gang territory that week.
Were there still good matches? Sure? But between the bullshit storylines and what we were expected to take, it just did not feel worth it to want to continue to support maybe the 2-3 good things shown in a 2 Hour Weekly Show. It was much easier to cut your losses and mock it, especially considering the guys who made TNA even when Hogan and Bischoff left, were basically treated as nothing, as AJ, Kaz, Daniels, Sabin, Shelly, Dutt, Kong, Low Ki, Hamada, Okada, Alyssa Flash, Roxxi, and more were all lost in the wake of this Four Year Typhoon and were not replaced well, and Aries and Joe were honestly on their way out as well. And for what? Tommy Dreamer crying, more ECW Reunions, and them bringing back the Six Sided ring when no one cares anymore? Talking about a "New Era" in TNA when you had yet to renew your cable contract and now because of your blind idiocy, you may never get to do so?
The people who defend TNA are blind and may as well have a Cult mentality. Nothing bad can EVER be said, no legit criticism can be uttered, or you are a WWE Fanboy who just has to realize what good entertainment is. Well to them I said F*** You and learn to take criticism, and when TNA's contract with Spike is most likely not renewed and eventually goes under, you can all go and suckle Dixie's chi chi's for comfort calling her a goddess of the business who didn't deserve it, when she in fact, as a dense spoiled rich girl, did deserve it, for destroying something that has a whole lot of hope, and a whole lot of support, into a dismal failure, that's only bright spots were the FAN Threads posted here every week.
I loved TNA, and I thank it for honestly some of my all time Favorite Matches, but if it truly dies, I will not weep for it. I'll remember the good times, but it deserves it. It's like SpongeBob, I remember the good years because they were great, but after a certain point it's gotten to ridiculous and disgusting that you just feel nothing anymore, and when it dies, you aren't surprised and honestly, you can mock it shamelessly like I have and will continue to do.
If this is truly the End R.I.P. TNA, it was a merciful death, may Dixie Carter and Vince Russo drive off a cliff as SEAN CARELESS Photoshopped them to.
At least great Indies like CHIKARA and PWG are still alive.
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Post by Ganon83 on Jul 30, 2014 6:58:30 GMT -5
The only quality new guys who came in in 2010 thanks to Hogan were Anderson and Hardy. And even then, Hardy was more a black mark than anything until he got clean and got a ruling in his court case. That's about the only two positives Hogan brought to the company. Literally the only thing I'll give TNA credit for is that they didn't trudge out Beefcake during that time. Or keep the Nasty Boys longer than 4 months.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 30, 2014 7:22:02 GMT -5
The only quality new guys who came in in 2010 thanks to Hogan were Anderson and Hardy. And even then, Hardy was more a black mark than anything until he got clean and got a ruling in his court case. That's about the only two positives Hogan brought to the company. Literally the only thing I'll give TNA credit for is that they didn't trudge out Beefcake during that time. Or keep the Nasty Boys longer than 4 months. Kendrick was fine too... I don't know about the gimmick they stuck him with in the end but Kendricks a fine worker. Considering the longevity of all Three, Anderson, Hardy, and Kendrick, Kendrick may have the most longevity. Definitely did the least damage and I would have liked to see him stick around, but yeah...
And Brutus was rumored, it seemed close that we would see him in TNA, thank god we didn't... but honestly, The Nasty Boys in any capacity was awful, especially considering they got a win over Team 3D and left, which just pissed off the fans more.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jul 30, 2014 7:22:59 GMT -5
Ok almost 60 For whom the bell tolls starts playing, Spike deal: Not Renewed? Makes its way to the ring, 70 000 strong cheer, Spike deal spits water in the air, JR talks about its accomplishments, only being a couple of days old....A loud gong goes off, Johnny Cash's Ain't no Grave starts playing, "When I hear that trumpet sound I'm gonna rise right out of the ground. Ain't no grave can hold my body down", A Special Photo Op with Sunny starring TODD, makes its way down the isle, the streak is on the line....
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 30, 2014 7:37:54 GMT -5
Man Bully Ray really was given some shit Spots to work with in this company wasn't he? Damn Bully...
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Push R Truth on Jul 30, 2014 8:05:40 GMT -5
In classic TNA style I hope the last show ends with a TNA Title match that has a million run ins and goes off the air before the decision is made.
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Post by creepytennis on Jul 30, 2014 8:50:17 GMT -5
In classic TNA style I hope the last show ends with a TNA Title match that has a million run ins and goes off the air before the decision is made. That would actually be awesome.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Jul 30, 2014 10:30:12 GMT -5
Even bringing in Hogan has to go on Dixie. I always say that TNA tried to fly to close to the sun, and they did. And going live, taking Impact on the road were things alot of fans wanted to see, and it ended up hurting them. At the end of the day, it's a real soft market for pro wrestling, and unless your content with being a distant minor leagues, or the WWE, you're cooked, and even that is questionable these days.
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Post by benstudd on Jul 30, 2014 10:34:17 GMT -5
About not being Dixie's fault, it's like in every sports. I've seen so many dumb owners trusting horrible GMs over the years. Hell GMs that almost ruined these owners yet the owners kept trusting them. At some point you've got to say, yea that owner deserve the blame too, he let it happen and the fans suffered for it. And yea JJ was a bad GM. They sort of deserve each other. The bad owner is like having a loving parent but a bad parent that let things slide too much and it hurts the child. I guess this could be both Bob and Dixie.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jul 30, 2014 10:49:34 GMT -5
About not being Dixie's fault, it's like in every sports. I've seen so many dumb owners trusting horrible GMs over the years. Hell GMs that almost ruined these owners yet the owners kept trusting them. At some point you've got to say, yea that owner deserve the blame too, he let it happen and the fans suffered for it. And yea JJ was a bad GM. They sort of deserve each other. The bad owner is like having a loving parent but a bad parent that let things slide too much and it hurts the child. I guess this could be both Bob and Dixie. Would you consider Dixie like a Jerry Jones type? An owner who desperately wants to be part of the team? I'm talking about Jerry Jones now lol, not the one from the 90s
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 30, 2014 10:56:34 GMT -5
One minor correction to something said earlier: under Dixie, TNA DID attempt to bring both CM Punk and Bryan Danielson in. Punk was offered a PPV re-debut match with Samoa Joe during the summer of 2005 (to debut both guys), and Angle was pitching the storyline of Danielson being his protege that he winds up feuding with. Obviously, Punk hates TNA and wanted no part of it and Danielson preferred being in the indies until he got the type of deal he was looking for from WWE.
Other than that, yeah: Dixie wanted to be in charge, and the buck has to stop somewhere. It's under her that TNA seemed to constantly shift bookers, from Russo, to Dusty, to D'Amore, to Russo again, to Dutch, to Hogan, etc. etc. etc. etc. on and on and on it goes. They kept wondering why they weren't drawing WWF numbers, yet instead of doing anything to achieve those numbers they'd just rearrange who was writing and hope for the best. No consistent strategy, no patience to grow what really was a pretty young company, no long term vision for the type of company they hoped to have.
I always gave TNA a chance because I actively dislike Vince McMahon and what I feel is a staid, boring WWE product, but I'd constantly go through cycles of watching and not watching because they never seemed to have a damn clue how to maintain something positive for too long.
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Post by benstudd on Jul 30, 2014 11:00:03 GMT -5
About not being Dixie's fault, it's like in every sports. I've seen so many dumb owners trusting horrible GMs over the years. Hell GMs that almost ruined these owners yet the owners kept trusting them. At some point you've got to say, yea that owner deserve the blame too, he let it happen and the fans suffered for it. And yea JJ was a bad GM. They sort of deserve each other. The bad owner is like having a loving parent but a bad parent that let things slide too much and it hurts the child. I guess this could be both Bob and Dixie. Would you consider Dixie like a Jerry Jones type? An owner who desperately wants to be part of the team? I'm talking about Jerry Jones now lol, not the one from the 90s But Jones knows Football. His problem is that he gets involved too much. While Dixie is more like the owner that trust too much. It's the weak parent syndrome.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 30, 2014 11:00:13 GMT -5
One minor correction to something said earlier: under Dixie, TNA DID attempt to bring both CM Punk and Bryan Danielson in. Punk was offered a PPV re-debut match with Samoa Joe during the summer of 2005 (to debut both guys), and Angle was pitching the storyline of Danielson being his protege that he winds up feuding with. Obviously, Punk hates TNA and wanted no part of it and Danielson preferred being in the indies until he got the type of deal he was looking for from WWE. Other than that, yeah: Dixie wanted to be in charge, and the buck has to stop somewhere. It's under her that TNA seemed to constantly shift bookers, from Russo, to Dusty, to D'Amore, to Russo again, to Dutch, to Hogan, etc. etc. etc. etc. on and on and on it goes. They kept wondering why they weren't drawing WWF numbers, yet instead of doing anything to achieve those numbers they'd just rearrange who was writing and hope for the best. No consistent strategy, no patience to grow what really was a pretty young company, no long term vision for the type of company they hoped to have. I always gave TNA a chance because I actively dislike Vince McMahon and what I feel is a staid, boring WWE product, but I'd constantly go through cycles of watching and not watching because they never seemed to have a damn clue how to maintain something positive for too long. "Destination X was awesome, this is the Event that's totally turned TNA around for the better guys. Everything is ok now, all the bad is gone! It's only going to be good! I just know it! Just watch, you'll see!"
- Every Blindly Loyal TNA Fan EVERY. F***ING. YEAR...
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jul 30, 2014 11:09:55 GMT -5
Would you consider Dixie like a Jerry Jones type? An owner who desperately wants to be part of the team? I'm talking about Jerry Jones now lol, not the one from the 90s But Jones knows Football. His problem is that he gets involved too much. While Dixie is more like the owner that trust too much. It's the weak parent syndrome. Man I never looked it like that, your comment should get infinite likes, "weak parent sydrome", you're absolutely right, it goes back when she gave that idiotic speech to the roster "you have my support, and love"...there can't be love on wrestling, no wonder everyone took advantage from her, I believe one of the main reasons she bought tna was because Jeff was her neighbor once, and she remembered him when they had the meeting, maybe in some way Jeff guilt tripped her into buying the company. You can't show compassion as a boss, specially in wrestling, you're surrounded by con men and sharks. Maybe Russo just knows the right words to say to her, can you imagine what a stooge of gigantic proportions (kevin dunn) would get away with there? He would make Dixie give him the company as a gift. I wonder if I can con 1000 bucks outta her, with any luck she would make me her head of creative, lol that would never happened, although Gaburick's only experience is shooting 30 seconds commercials
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cjh
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Post by cjh on Jul 30, 2014 11:17:38 GMT -5
One minor correction to something said earlier: under Dixie, TNA DID attempt to bring both CM Punk and Bryan Danielson in. Punk was offered a PPV re-debut match with Samoa Joe during the summer of 2005 (to debut both guys), and Angle was pitching the storyline of Danielson being his protege that he winds up feuding with. Obviously, Punk hates TNA and wanted no part of it and Danielson preferred being in the indies until he got the type of deal he was looking for from WWE. Punk wouldn't have been available for TNA anyways as he was all but officially WWE-bound by that point. Angle wasn't in TNA until September 2006, so if he was pushing for a feud with him and Danielson in 2005, he would have been pushing it to WWE.
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