Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
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Post by Sephiroth on Jul 28, 2014 8:13:55 GMT -5
Since it looks to be just about official, lets take a look back and see what we all consider to be the things that really did this once promising promotion in. I'll get the ball rolling:
1. The name. Yeah, this predates the Carter regime, but as I've stated before, it just plain has certain connotations that really were limiting to the company's marketability. When they made the move from weekly PPV's to an actual network TV deal, they really should have considered changing the company name.
2. Kurt Angle vs Samoa Joe. Make no mistake, bringing in Angle was a major coup for the company, and Angle has been one of they're best assets for years. But still, Joe vs Angle was a fantasy match and tossing it out right out of the gate as TNA did was a mistake. It should have been a slow burn situation where they built it up and gave it as much hype as possible to get the maximum amount of extra ratings or buyrates out of it.
3. Leaving the Impact Zone. Whatever else it may have been, the deal TNA had with Universal for the Impact Zone was a damn good one for a promotion of limited resources. Having a fixed location to film out of seriously cheapened they're production costs and saved them a lot of hassle. Granted, the long term goal should always have been to eventually start going on the road so they could make the most profit possible via ticket sales. But upending the deal with the Impact Zone when they did and how they did was easily one of the single biggest mistakes they could have made.
4. Failure to advertise. TNA had so many connections and relationships they built over they're years, and so many potential resources at they're disposal, that they really should have been able to increase they're visibility and grow they're audience. But they never used any of it to the best potential for such a purpose. Mick Foley appeared on Celebrity Wife Swap and the Daily Show while he was under contract to them-and they never even mentioned it. This failure to promote themselves absolutely cost them ratings, buyrates, tickets, and merchandising sales.
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Post by Wolfman Rose on Jul 28, 2014 8:19:41 GMT -5
Vince Russo.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Jul 28, 2014 8:29:49 GMT -5
- Not having a Vince McMahon in charge. They didn't have that one person who was the final word, and everyone knew it. They didn't have anyone to say to Hogan and Bischoff "No, that's stupid. Here's how it's going to be." Without that person in charge, Hogan and Bischoff got to take control, and it was the inmates running the asylum.
- Lockdown 2012, and their torpedoing of James Storm. That match should have been the culmination of Storm getting revenge on Roode. You had a match that should have made Storm a star, and kept Roode as a big time heel. Instead they completely torpedo Storm's career.
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Professor Chaos
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bringer of Destruction and Maker of Doom
Posts: 16,332
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Post by Professor Chaos on Jul 28, 2014 8:32:22 GMT -5
Hulk Hogan and Eric Bischoff.
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,271
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Post by Push R Truth on Jul 28, 2014 8:32:28 GMT -5
Trying to be WWE Lite too often.
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Post by The Tank on Jul 28, 2014 8:44:10 GMT -5
Their constant insistence on NOT establishing their own identity and sticking to it.
There was a point where it was always "how can we be more like WWE" until it was time for the annual "we're not legally allowed to say ECW, but ECW you guys" angle.
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Post by MGH on Jul 28, 2014 9:08:24 GMT -5
Just Samoa Joe in general. WWE is starting to do this now more often and it is still just as stupid. I'm not saying you let fans dictate EVERYTHING 100% of the time. You have to slow burn things to keep people coming back for more. But every single TNA fan was telling TNA for a year that they wanted Joe to be the guy. They waited far too long to make him the man and make him the Champion. They did it at least 8-12 months too far down the line. He was still popular, but the fire had fizzled. It didn't carry the same weight it would have had they done it at the right time. Then they ruined his reign in general, but that's another discussion.
When you have lightning in a bottle you change your plans and let it loose. You don't let it burn out. TNA let it burn out every single time.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jul 28, 2014 9:22:58 GMT -5
1. Jay Schusman (don't know how it's spelled), he was the guy who worked with the ppv carrier deal in 2002, he gave the jarretts false information, he said they were pulling higher buys when it wasn't true. 2. Panda could've sold the company for a ton of money in the early years to a group of Russians, one of the conditions was to employ Vladimir Kozlov, they didn't wanted to so to appease the Russians, Jerry Jarrett took him to Vince, Jeff was livid. 3. Planet Jarrett, good heel but way over pushed. 4. Main event mafia, buried all your young talent for a full year. 5. Taking Jeff Jarrett out of the picture after the Karen affair, backstage he was the glue holding everything together, they even disposed of his allies (road Dogg, Dutch, Cornette). 6. Hogan era, 'nuff said. 7. Losing nearly all of the main event players, then putting jabronis on their place. Employing Bromans but firing Bad influence. 8. John Gaburick, the guy who only shot commercials for wwe shouldn't be the head of talent relations and the booker. 9. Vince Russo....
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jul 28, 2014 9:34:56 GMT -5
Their constant insistence on NOT establishing their own identity and sticking to it. There was a point where it was always "how can we be more like WWE" until it was time for the annual "we're not legally allowed to say ECW, but ECW you guys" angle. This. Pretty much this
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2014 9:41:08 GMT -5
The Monday night move. Every single insipid decision, and poor booking choice that was associated with it.
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kevin
El Dandy
Posts: 7,501
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Post by kevin on Jul 28, 2014 9:44:04 GMT -5
Putting people in big angles and not having that angle end before their contract ran out. I am going to focus on one of their most recent fiascoes. AJ Styles was their biggest home brand star and the face of TNA. Him not being able to challenge for the title for over a year was stupid but it helped build up his big match with Bully which made sense. It was a s pure as a wrestling story gets, The heroic AJ was going to take the champion back from the evil Bully who had held onto it for so long. Things started to go off the rails when a crippled Chris Sabin beat Bully for the title in a horrible match that made everyone look bad. It ruined the conquering story for AJ even winning it back quickly did not help because if AJ was not taking the title from the heel who had held it for months it just did not mean nearly as much. This did not even help Sabin as he quickly turned heel and never had a good storyline again before he was gone for good. The AJ Bully match had been greatly diminished and no one benefited from it. Then the match happens and AJ wins and runs off with the title not under contract main problem TNA had no idea and failed to ever get him back under contract. Aj only wrestled one more match a horrible one against Magnus that deserves its own post in this thread. Dixie turned heel which eventually gave us EC III and Rockstar Spud but she herself was terrible at it. Hugging Hogans leg and asking him to ride the Dixie train are lowlights in TNA's history. It was not even the end of Aces and Eights a Bully feud with Anderson was what finally put the group down. This could have been the angle that turned TNA around instead it became as wrestlecrap as wrestling angles get.
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
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Post by Bo Rida on Jul 28, 2014 10:48:52 GMT -5
Just Samoa Joe in general. WWE is starting to do this now more often and it is still just as stupid. I'm not saying you let fans dictate EVERYTHING 100% of the time. You have to slow burn things to keep people coming back for more. But every single TNA fan was telling TNA for a year that they wanted Joe to be the guy. They waited far too long to make him the man and make him the Champion. They did it at least 8-12 months too far down the line. He was still popular, but the fire had fizzled. It didn't carry the same weight it would have had they done it at the right time. Then they ruined his reign in general, but that's another discussion. When you have lightning in a bottle you change your plans and let it loose. You don't let it burn out. TNA let it burn out every single time. Yep, that's pretty much when I gave up on TNA, I didn't see any point in investing in the company if nothing was going to reach a logical conclusion and at least to me that view has been vindicated. I did give them another couple of chances, most notably just before Hogan arrived (Final Resolution 2009) but after his first episode I gave up for good. Like you say WWE are in serious danger of repeating the same mistakes. Shame they never built the company around Joe, AJ and Daniels back then when their feud was at it's peak.
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Post by SpillBeans316 on Jul 28, 2014 10:49:28 GMT -5
All great and accurate points being made. This is only my opinion but I believe the single biggest mistake TNA ever made was the Sting//Hardy match from Victory Road 2011.
1) I don't care about any the excuses I heard about Jeff "He seemed fine all day" "Nobody saw him before the main event", you do not send anyone out looking that way in that condition. How many people did he walk by from the locker room to the back curtain and nobody says anything? 2) Screwing the audience out of a main event. There would of always been people who felt screwed by changing the main event but professional wrestling has always relied on on-the-fly booking, whether negative or positive. A few clear minds backstage would of been able to put together an idea for match that might have fans say, "I didn't pay for that, but hey they tried to turn a negative into a positive." 3)it did not put the company in a positive light to anyone (current talent, perspective talent, fans, investors, etc) as it said they were willing to risk the health and safety of their people (in this case Sting) by putting them in an unethical situation.
I will agree, that some of their good faith tactics of giving access to their online on-demand library to paying customers was a good idea, but the damage to the company's already unstable reputation was massive.
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Post by cabbageboy on Jul 28, 2014 11:01:22 GMT -5
1) Hogan and Bischoff. I know most would put Russo on here, but TNA had a bizarre sort of cheesy identity when Russo was booking and these two weren't around. Add them to the mix and it was toxic. A lot of the other bad ideas such as the ill fated MNW and moving out of the Impact Zone stem from this.
2) Never establishing an clear brand. TNA from its origins never really had a clear brand. With something like ECW you knew what you were getting. TNA had times where the show was as violent as ECW, but wasn't marketed as such. Sometimes they seemed almost southern style in their approach. They had times where they tried to focus on past stars. Other times they tried being WWE lite. Even during eras where they focused on things that WWE wasn't doing well (Knockouts, X Division, tag wrestling) they never coherently marketed themselves as such.
3) Failure to develop a series of towns. Let's face it, every wrestling promotion in history before TNA started with a regional following and then tried to go national. TNA actually tried to start out nationally but the wrestling world just doesn't work that way. You need a series of towns that you can rely on, but TNA never had that sort of base. Jarrett would have been better served running some combo of the USWA and SMW territory and then trying to get a TV deal from there.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jul 28, 2014 11:03:37 GMT -5
Being a money mark who never learned the business. Vince is a carny he gets it
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,480
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Post by Bo Rida on Jul 28, 2014 11:06:10 GMT -5
This was a great post by Bad News Hitogoroshi about TNA making the mistake of pissing off their most loyal cusomters and harming their TV show in the process. officialfan.proboards.com/thread/498499/good-blasts-impact-zone-audience?page=2TNA brought this upon themselves. Years ago, the Impact Zone was full of life and the fans were wild. They were excited about the product and quite vocal to the point of taking over the show. They popped for almost every angle. Chant "This Is Awesome" for matches that got their attention. But Hogan and Company came in and changed it all. They stripped TNA of its former identity & crapped on the previous accomplishments and the crowd showed their disapproval. So TNA told them to behave because you're just cast members not wrestling fans. That lead to a large group of regulars protesting that and not returning. The ones who did try to continue to go were moved from their usual spots and replace with paid models and plants. Seeing the are no longer wanted, they stopped going. Which lead TNA with plants, models, and clueless tourists who're wondering when John Cena coming out to wrestle. The models forgot their cues of when they are suppose to cheer or boo. The plants weren't loud enough to counter the confused tourists' apathy. The very same people they wanted gone were the ones who gave the Impact Zone life. So Hogan convinced TNA to take the show on the road and cuts ties with Universal Studios. TNA went on the road without a backup plan if the tapings didn't work and bring the growth as predicted. The tv tapings put TNA even further in the hole financially and fans on the road acted like the ones in the Impact Zone. So with their tails between their legs, they went back to Orlando. The problem was Universal Studios rented out Studio 21 to someone else and the new area they tape at isn't their's exclusively. While TNA was gone from Orlando, a new wrestling show came to town. WWE brought NXT to Orlando permanently after falling in love with Full Sail Arena. The Full Sail Arena is everything the Impact Zone used to be. The crowd is loud and interacts with the wrestlers. The shows get them excited. Matter of fact, a number of the former Impact Zone regulars are now regulars of NXT. They went somewhere that actually wanted them to make noise and be part of the show. So when TNA announced they were returning back to Orlando, that FORMER fanbase weren't excited. They didn't want to stand in line for hours and get told to how to act like fans. Sure it's free to get in, but they remember how TNA treated them. So they are sticking with NXT and TNA is stuck with the tourists who probably still thinks Hulk Hogan is still there. So you can blame the crowd for the lack of noise and excitement all you want but look at the product that is being sold if you really want the truth.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jul 28, 2014 11:23:04 GMT -5
Monty Brown turning heel as he was taking off as a face.
Half-assing the name change so that no one was even sure if Impact Wrestling was the name of the company or not.
Dixie dressing down the locker room... both airing it and doing it in the first place.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jul 28, 2014 11:45:35 GMT -5
1. The TNA name. Ideas like that sucked in the attitude era and they suck now.
2. Not establishing a base. Their goal from day 1 was to become a national company because the Jarretts believed you could bypass this and become a draw because you're on TV which is utterly moronic. ECW had philly, the WWF had the northeast, WCW had the south, TNA have nowhere because they never tried to make themselves a home... It's made it a whole lot harder for them to run house shows.
3. Over reliance on Jeff Jarrett. I'm a big fan of Double J, but like Triple H, he had no business being the face of a wrestling company. He's a guy that should make others a star, but he didn't, jobbing to them is meaningless if you remain the star of the show.
4. Relying on gimmicks and quick fix solutions to bump ratings, rather than trying to build up the promotion the old fashioned way, by putting on a decent to good show night after night to build up brand loyalty. The hot new signing gimmick works once, maybe twice but it quickly turns into throwing good money after bad.
5. Failure to advertise or sign someone with experience promoting live wrestling events. I'm sure the ICP could have suggested a few names when they were promoting TNA in the early days of it's house shows.
6. Allowing gimmick signings to eclipse your guys when they should be there to make your guys seem more legit. Christian should have made AJ styles, Angle should have made Joe and so on, but they messed up and always seemed to book to favour the name. Working with a big name guy was not enough, it never has been and never will be.
7. Not exploring their options earlier and sending feelers out to other TV stations during previous contract negotiations.
8. Signing Hogan and Bischoff to the deals they did. Given the control they asked for, and received, they should have been paid by results, if they say no to that, they didn't have any confidence in their ideas so weren't a worthwhile investment.
9. The mass influx that came with Hogan and the deletion of TNA's attempts at creating a unique brand. WWE fans didn't want TNA featuring their old stars, TNA/Indy fans didn't want to see them, it should have been obvious given how Foley, Booker, Hall and Nash did nothing once TNA was established.
10. Destroying the knockout division. Kong and Kim were cornerstones of the division and it was doing good things for them, they lowballed Kim, then Kong and let some 3rd rate DJ drive her from the company in the process. They treated Kong in a way that means she'll never entertain a return and did far worse to Daffney.
11. Daffney, Jesse Neil and Jessy Sorensen. TNA made it clear that they did not care about concussions and did not have their workers back when they got injured which will come back to burn Panda down the line even if TNA folds.
12. The move to Mondays. It peeled back the curtain and revealed that the loyal TNA fanbase is a small portion of the 1.2 who watch it when there's no wrestling alternative.
13. Not scaling back the Hogan when it became clear it wasn't working, instead, they built the company around him and his notalent daughter, building to a match he could never, ever have.
14. Not crunching the numbers before leaving the Impact Zone and doing so in such a way that meant they couldn't return. They knew the costs associated with live programs from their PPVs so knew what they could expect in terms of cost so should have been more careful not to burn their bridges with universal studios, but here we are.
15. Not trying harder to make Ring Ka King work, All the TNA talents involved in the taping should have been made available to Colors in India and they should have worked out a way to crosspromote when it was shown on the (Viacom owned) American version of the channel... Instead, there was no mention at all, Steiner believed that was because it was Double J's baby rather than Hogan/Bischoff's and I'm kind of inclined to agree. It could have opened up a whole world of options for them, were it bot for the almighty politics.
16. Not having a big rebranding/reboot after Hogan left, now it's too little, too late.
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Professor Chaos
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bringer of Destruction and Maker of Doom
Posts: 16,332
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Post by Professor Chaos on Jul 28, 2014 12:00:11 GMT -5
TNA's history is murky to me for some reason. Probably cause I didn't see more than a couple PPV's. I did enjoy Impact more than RAW a lot from 2006-2009 though.
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Post by Main Eventer on Jul 28, 2014 12:03:08 GMT -5
Hiring Vince Russo while telling the tv company you are trying to get a new contract with that you didn't hire him because they don't like him.
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