Lancers
El Dandy
Oh you
Posts: 7,951
|
Post by Lancers on Aug 1, 2014 0:13:04 GMT -5
No question the greatest consequence of the Monday Night Wars was the desensitization of the big event. PPVs didn't matter as much as they did before. I was watching Wrestlemania 2000 on the Network a couple of months back and it was jarring to see how much it felt less like a Wrestlemania and more like an episode of RAW. No big entrance set. No big introduction. Nothing unique about it.
It made sense for WCW to work this way since Ted Turner owned the promotion so naturally he was more infatuated with stuff happening on TNT or TBS, networks he had once had principal ownership of. WWE sort of had no choice but to up the ante in order to compete, but once it happened there really was no point of return back to Prime Time Wrestling/Superstars/Wrestling Challenge-caliber programming format where everything was used to build the PPV.
Which leads us to where we are at today. We expect to see our main eventers perform each week. And if they're not wrestling, they're almost assuredly going to be on the mic. There is a significant burn out factor that is created when you find limitations to mixing and matching opponents. Cena, for example, has wrestled almost everyone on the roster. They're attempting to sell this Lesnar match at Summerslam like it's a big deal when all you gotta do is go all the way back to the year of 2012 to see these two cross paths in an extreme rules match.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 7:36:02 GMT -5
Lancers hit it right, and I can't believe I didn't mention it sooner. The lack of a break from seeing certain guys on TV (unless they were legit injured). If you give a guy a week off of TV, it shouldn't be made to look like a punishment. It was to make the fans actually miss them, to not get burned out on him. Hogan wasn't on TV every week, and when he did show up, it was a big deal to see the champion - even if it was just a quick 3-minute promo on his next opponent on PPV. (Thanks to 2-hour Raws, we hardly got that chance.) And during the late-1990s, PPVs may have been pushed hard, but when you bought a show, you knew maybe 3 matches, tops. The rest were all thrown together, because they were too afraid to tell us the real reason they threw these two clowns together. (We have to fill out the card, and we can't take a minute to explain why, we're afraid you'll turn the channel.) At least the WWF had throw-ins that made some sort of sense - even if they sucked. (LOD vs DOA) WCW just spun the wheel and had random matches for some odd reason.
|
|
|
|
Post by Surfer Sandman on Aug 1, 2014 9:02:44 GMT -5
Most of the points within have already been stated and I agree.
While I do enjoy the MNW period (aka "Attitude era"), I'm only nostalgic for ECW before they puttered out. I can watch old ECW Hardcore TV and enjoy it but if I put on something from the WWF or WCW of that era? It just hasn't aged as well.
|
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave on Aug 1, 2014 9:10:53 GMT -5
It gave Vince Russo a career.
|
|
nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,719 
|
Post by nisidhe on Aug 1, 2014 9:30:02 GMT -5
The deaths of so many wrestlers seemed to be the result of Attitude-Era booking combined with "strong-style" wrestling. That there are so many of wrestling's very best wrestlers either dead or retired from injuries is perhaps the single biggest reason why the current product is so weak in comparison - these were guys who could have taught much to so many and elevated the current product far more. This is the first generation of pro wrestlers whose in-ring work will not be compared favourably to that of the generation before.
|
|
JDviant
Unicron
XB1 username: lil giant robot
Posts: 3,103
|
Post by JDviant on Aug 1, 2014 10:17:31 GMT -5
The real acceleration of wrestling's weird problems with women. To go from Honkey Tonk hesitation to hit Elizabeth and the shock of Jake Roberts hitting her to the crowd ERUPTING when Trish first got put threw a table by the Dudley Boyz is just night and day. One of the biggest pops I can recall was Bubba finally 'getting' her. I know she was a heel, but that was taboo not a decade earlier... As for PPV matches on tv, thats one reason I'm hoping Lesnar gets the title. Why are we seeing THE MAN wrestle every week? Gotta build that stuff up. |
|
agent817
Fry's dog Seymour
Doesn't Know Whose Ring It Is
Posts: 21,159
|
Post by agent817 on Aug 1, 2014 11:52:10 GMT -5
I wrote a thread back in January about how I watched episodes of Raw on YouTube and a lot of the time, you had the bigger stars in a match at the start of the show. Like for example, Bret Hart vs. 1-2-3 Kid for the title was the show opener. Someone said it best how the thinking at the time was that the shows would get more viewers tuned in at the start with some of the bigger names and then would probably tune out or change the channel as the show progresses. I even noticed that the main events a lot of the time were just lower or mid-carders closing out the show. I would like to think of that as just the final match on the card because I am certain some people didn't tune in to see a Goldust vs. Savio Vega match to end the show.
|
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Aug 1, 2014 12:07:20 GMT -5
The real acceleration of wrestling's weird problems with women. To go from Honkey Tonk hesitation to hit Elizabeth and the shock of Jake Roberts hitting her to the crowd ERUPTING when Trish first got put threw a table by the Dudley Boyz is just night and day. One of the biggest pops I can recall was Bubba finally 'getting' her. I know she was a heel, but that was taboo not a decade earlier... As for PPV matches on tv, thats one reason I'm hoping Lesnar gets the title. Why are we seeing THE MAN wrestle every week? Gotta build that stuff up. The really screwed up part is that a woman being able to take a hit and recover from it, if done well, could've been viewed as something more progressive, i.e. a female character who can stand up for herself, take a hit from a vile heel, but get back up and get him back for what he did. Instead, the Wars era just drove home all the "puppies" and "divas" stuff, so it was much more a matter of "Either take off your clothes, or get put through a table and leave" with a lot of fans. Shitty stuff. |
|
|
|
Post by WesternSloth on Aug 2, 2014 14:42:48 GMT -5
The obvious one to me is the departure of jobbers. Big stars face each other all the time now and wins and losses for the most part mean f*** all.
|
|
pegasuswarrior
El Dandy
Three Time FAN Idol Champion
@PulpPictionary
Posts: 8,748 
|
Post by pegasuswarrior on Aug 3, 2014 0:20:16 GMT -5
Death of kayfabe
and
Desperation (Karl Malone, Jay Leno, David Arquette)
Monday Night Wars: It was the best of times; it was the worst of times.
|
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave on Aug 3, 2014 0:24:30 GMT -5
Kayfabe was pretty much dead long before the Monday Night Wars. I remember even in the early 90's (and maybe the late 80's) knowing that it was a show. That said even during the Monday Night Wars I remember people trying to claim their preferred federation was REAL where the rest were fake. But that aside... there is no way in hell Kayfabe could really survive in the age of the internet. |
|
|
|
Post by jimmyjames on Aug 3, 2014 6:09:48 GMT -5
Desperation (Karl Malone, Jay Leno, David Arquette) I agree about Arquette, but Malone and Leno got WCW some of the most mainstream coverage they ever got, and for the most part it was positive. |
|
|
|
Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on Aug 3, 2014 8:04:47 GMT -5
I have more to say later, but just for now, Bill Watts, Stampede and World Class had TV shows that was filled with nothing but star vs. star matches with Watts (arguably) inventing "episodic" wrestling on TV (read: cliffhanger story lines ). The idea that jobber squashes were the only thing you could have on your TV was disproven by those guys.
Of course, Watts, Von Erich and the Harts weren't trying to create several hours of TV content every week so in that regard they had the advantage.
|
|
Wieners=$$$
Hank Scorpio
Gif Master Extraordinaire
Smokin' Bones
Posts: 6,028
Member is Online
|
Post by Wieners=$$$ on Aug 3, 2014 9:23:41 GMT -5
ECW not getting a fair shot while the "Wars" were floundering. In my opinion ECW should have been doing big business during 1999, but unfortunately the lack of TV support, and their major stars being bought up by WWF and WCW sunk them quicker than they had the chance; ECW should have been the rejuvenating shot that era needed.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Aug 3, 2014 9:39:50 GMT -5
To go from Honkey Tonk hesitation to hit Elizabeth and the shock of Jake Roberts hitting her to the crowd ERUPTING when Trish first got put threw a table by the Dudley Boyz is just night and day. One of the biggest pops I can recall was Bubba finally 'getting' her. I know she was a heel, but that was taboo not a decade earlier... As for PPV matches on tv, thats one reason I'm hoping Lesnar gets the title. Why are we seeing THE MAN wrestle every week? Gotta build that stuff up. The really screwed up part is that a woman being able to take a hit and recover from it, if done well, could've been viewed as something more progressive, i.e. a female character who can stand up for herself, take a hit from a vile heel, but get back up and get him back for what he did. Instead, the Wars era just drove home all the "puppies" and "divas" stuff, so it was much more a matter of "Either take off your clothes, or get put through a table and leave" with a lot of fans. Shitty stuff. Well, they did try to do that with Chyna. |
|
|
|
Post by Surfer Sandman on Aug 3, 2014 9:46:19 GMT -5
The obvious one to me is the departure of jobbers. Big stars face each other all the time now and wins and losses for the most part mean f*** all. Indeed. It kills the excitement when it's John Cena vs Randy Orton for the 5,000th time on TV. |
|
pegasuswarrior
El Dandy
Three Time FAN Idol Champion
@PulpPictionary
Posts: 8,748
|
Post by pegasuswarrior on Aug 3, 2014 16:44:55 GMT -5
Desperation (Karl Malone, Jay Leno, David Arquette) I agree about Arquette, but Malone and Leno got WCW some of the most mainstream coverage they ever got, and for the most part it was positive. I understand what you're saying. My point is that it defaced the product when Hogan and the like succumb to Jay Leno in an arm bar and a Malone elbow drop. While I get your "business" point, those things mock the product. "Oh, you've been doing this professionally for 25 years or more? Let me finish up a monologue or finish my free throws and come compete on your level after a few days at the Power Plant." That's where I coming from with my line of thinking. |
|
|
|
Post by edgestar on Aug 3, 2014 16:50:34 GMT -5
We won't get to see a tank drive up to the arena WCW is at. Something like that would definitely be "once in a lifetime"  |
|
pegasuswarrior
El Dandy
Three Time FAN Idol Champion
@PulpPictionary
Posts: 8,748
|
Post by pegasuswarrior on Aug 3, 2014 16:53:10 GMT -5
Kayfabe was pretty much dead long before the Monday Night Wars. I remember even in the early 90's (and maybe the late 80's) knowing that it was a show. That said even during the Monday Night Wars I remember people trying to claim their preferred federation was REAL where the rest were fake. But that aside... there is no way in hell Kayfabe could really survive in the age of the internet. I know that people were "catching on." Heck, that was going on years before Monday Night Wars. To me, I always wanted it to be "sold" to me. And a lot of fans still wanted that and want that. To clarify, what I meant by "death of kayfabe" is when the producers and owners turned our "comic book world" into "Deadpool-who-are-we-kidding--eff-it" land. I wasn't really clear, so I get what you're saying. But the lines became unblurred by the end of the era. It *all* became a joke. And the people shoveling it to us became part of the joke. To me, not to be Jim Cornette, but that's betraying the whole point of the entertainment. It's like every movie you ever watch suddenly becoming self-aware. So I'm not denying you your point. Just adding some clarity to my vagueness. By death of kayfabe, I mean the final twist of the knife. And by the hands of the owners and people who should've been respecting it, no less. |
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Aug 3, 2014 17:12:05 GMT -5
I have more to say later, but just for now, Bill Watts, Stampede and World Class had TV shows that was filled with nothing but star vs. star matches with Watts (arguably) inventing "episodic" wrestling on TV (read: cliffhanger story lines ). The idea that jobber squashes were the only thing you could have on your TV was disproven by those guys. Of course, Watts, Von Erich and the Harts weren't trying to create several hours of TV content every week so in that regard they had the advantage. Definitely a fair point, but as you point out there's the sheer difference in how much TV time they had to fill up (thus not every star was featured every week), and there was at least more of a direction in mind with a lot of the older TV, usually building to live shows at large venues they were building up hype for. Would be interesting to look at those similarities and difference more in-depth, though. |
|
