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Post by ________ has left the building on Sept 9, 2014 18:12:18 GMT -5
A number of people look good pre-TNA like Brittney but fail to live up to that. Hamada lazy? Seriously? Who cares that Hamada's looks when her skills were top notch. For someone whose supposedly in her "twilight", Gail is in the top 5 in TNA as far as talent. During the glory days of the Knockouts, they were praised for the wrestling, diversity, and treatment of women. Now, it's flash yo tits and ass for pops or taking stunt bumps to make the crowd care. Grade the Knockouts own their own. Even grading them against the current Divas crop, they come up short. Havok or AJ - I'd pick Havok every time, promo ability (she literally is the female Bray Wyatt) and in the ring, far superior by a huge margin, yes Hamada was lazy and sloppy far cry from her days in GAEA Japan go watch her then, you only have to google about every so often she has a bad attitude. With WWE its lesbian innuendos and bad actresses. Gail is 37 or 38 years old, that is uncharted territory for womens wrestling. Santana Garrett aka Brittany is a fantastic worker and has some good stuff coming up with Samuel Shaw, her and Havok have a bit of history too, but Havok is one of the best female wrestlers in the world today and is obviously being built like a killer and the new face of the KO division. If WWE did stunt bumps or had longer time they'd be praised, if TNA does it they're mindless morons which they do all the time, its a criticism that doesn't hold any legs. You're building on hope instead of show. I'm quite familiar with all of the Knockouts' previous runs before TNA. Hamada still was excellent in the ring even if she was"lazy". And TNA does bad acting and lesbian overtones. It's not a thing exclusive to WWE. Since you watch joshi, you should know that there are a number of women who are older than Gail and still can perform that demanding style. Just because Kim is older means send her to the glue factory. TNA pushed a number of males past their prime. Why Gail got to go when she can still go full steam? In TNA, Brittney hasn't done nothing yet praise worthy. She cut terrible promos. Her matches are generic with her looking clueless during spots. Stunt bumping works when it's rare and built upon. Taryn's regular matches are standard fare. You can't keep taking stumps bumps every match because the crowd will become numb to it while you sacrifice your body for pops. Ask Abyss about that. We're only week 2 on Havok in TNA. No need to crown her the greatest when all she did was the usual monster beatdown. Lei'd Tapa did the same and no one called her great. The chant was basically like some fans in Bellator chanting better than UFC during a fight. Praise your own instead of trying to tear down someone else.
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Post by bluemeii on Sept 9, 2014 18:17:36 GMT -5
Havok has wrestled a match for TNA on TV? Not being snarky but did I miss it? Kay Lee Ray? Who's that. She's wrestled for TNA on TV? That's the thing I'm talking about, projection not reality. The Brittany, Shaw stuff....hasn't happened. We're talking about here, right now, the show as presented. I'm not going to base an opinion on who is better and who isn't off stuff that hasn't even been shown yet. Yes she was on a One Night Only show against Madison Rayne thats when they decided to sign her along with Madison pitching. She will be coming up she's from Scotland (although currently based in England), she's one of the best female wrestlers in Europe at 22 years old. Well they're going for a Fatal Attraction type of scenario. I know and again even in transition, I'd take the KO's, and dump Velvet Sky who has regressed so badly. Oh ok. Didn't know about the ONO show. One of those tree fall in the woods does it make a sound scenario for me but whatever. It's cool you did the knockouts more, I'm just going on what I've seen so far not off what they can do. All I've seen out of Havok is Hulk Smash with no matches. The 2nd one isn't even signed. Gail is Gail, still the premier English based wrestling program female on the planet. After that to me the pickings get slim. I'm just going by what I've actually viewed on my TV screen (they really need an advance warning for Angelina closeups). Other than Gail and Angelina I just see green fields full of shit with an occasional tree that gives you something you might enjoy to look at.
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Emmet Russell
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Post by Emmet Russell on Sept 9, 2014 18:28:32 GMT -5
Probably 2 years ago, that statement would had been true but nowadays it's not. The average Knockouts match is like an average Divas match that is a few minutes longer. Days when Hamada, Alissa Flash, Roxxi, and Kong were around, no question. Gail Kim is the lone guiding light in the Knockouts division. Love's skills regressed. Velvet is more experienced than Rosa Mendes but has the same skill level. Madison is average in every way. Brittany looks lost without someone to carry her which only one person who can do that. Taryn can work hardcore but falls apart working standard matches. Rebel is so inexperienced that they don't trust her in matches and made her a valet. The jury's is still out on Havok. Grading the current roster on its own standards, it's C- with Kim. A D- without her. Having seen Havok pre TNA, she's the best one there. Hamada never worked out because she was lazy to the point she gained weight, Melissa's Alissa Flash gimmick went nowhere, Roxxi retired to become a fitness coach and not long after Kong left TNA and joined WWE, she became pregnant. Gail Kim is in her twilight years and Havok will probably go over her at Bound for Glory. With TNA probably bringing in Kay Lee Ray as well, even through periods of transition their womens roster is still better than the divas IMO. Taryn has only been wrestling 18 months to 2 years, she's got the right attitude, and she'll improve under the right guidance. If you're going to bring Hamada's weight into it, why don't you bring it up with Havok? she's big, and not in the muscular way.
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Post by Pillman's Pencil on Sept 9, 2014 18:36:24 GMT -5
Having seen Havok pre TNA, she's the best one there. Hamada never worked out because she was lazy to the point she gained weight, Melissa's Alissa Flash gimmick went nowhere, Roxxi retired to become a fitness coach and not long after Kong left TNA and joined WWE, she became pregnant. Gail Kim is in her twilight years and Havok will probably go over her at Bound for Glory. With TNA probably bringing in Kay Lee Ray as well, even through periods of transition their womens roster is still better than the divas IMO. Taryn has only been wrestling 18 months to 2 years, she's got the right attitude, and she'll improve under the right guidance. If you're going to bring Hamada's weight into it, why don't you bring it up with Havok? she's big, and not in the muscular way. Because she or Kong isn't sloppy, lazy in the ring nor does she have a bad attitude as Hamada did during her time there she accused Yoshi Tatsu of sexual harassment which pissed off a lot of people in Japan as it proved to be false.
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Post by Pillman's Pencil on Sept 9, 2014 18:38:43 GMT -5
Havok or AJ - I'd pick Havok every time, promo ability (she literally is the female Bray Wyatt) and in the ring, far superior by a huge margin, yes Hamada was lazy and sloppy far cry from her days in GAEA Japan go watch her then, you only have to google about every so often she has a bad attitude. With WWE its lesbian innuendos and bad actresses. Gail is 37 or 38 years old, that is uncharted territory for womens wrestling. Santana Garrett aka Brittany is a fantastic worker and has some good stuff coming up with Samuel Shaw, her and Havok have a bit of history too, but Havok is one of the best female wrestlers in the world today and is obviously being built like a killer and the new face of the KO division. If WWE did stunt bumps or had longer time they'd be praised, if TNA does it they're mindless morons which they do all the time, its a criticism that doesn't hold any legs. You're building on hope instead of show. I'm quite familiar with all of the Knockouts' previous runs before TNA. Hamada still was excellent in the ring even if she was"lazy". And TNA does bad acting and lesbian overtones. It's not a thing exclusive to WWE. Since you watch joshi, you should know that there are a number of women who are older than Gail and still can perform that demanding style. Just because Kim is older means send her to the glue factory. TNA pushed a number of males past their prime. Why Gail got to go when she can still go full steam? In TNA, Brittney hasn't done nothing yet praise worthy. She cut terrible promos. Her matches are generic with her looking clueless during spots. Stunt bumping works when it's rare and built upon. Taryn's regular matches are standard fare. You can't keep taking stumps bumps every match because the crowd will become numb to it while you sacrifice your body for pops. Ask Abyss about that. We're only week 2 on Havok in TNA. No need to crown her the greatest when all she did was the usual monster beatdown. Lei'd Tapa did the same and no one called her great. The chant was basically like some fans in Bellator chanting better than UFC during a fight. Praise your own instead of trying to tear down someone else. When you get to know Havok's character more, you'll think the same, she's the best on TNA's roster right now the gimmick is pretty much identical to what she had in Shine/WSU.
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Post by bluemeii on Sept 9, 2014 18:44:35 GMT -5
Having seen Havok pre TNA, she's the best one there. Hamada never worked out because she was lazy to the point she gained weight, Melissa's Alissa Flash gimmick went nowhere, Roxxi retired to become a fitness coach and not long after Kong left TNA and joined WWE, she became pregnant. Gail Kim is in her twilight years and Havok will probably go over her at Bound for Glory. With TNA probably bringing in Kay Lee Ray as well, even through periods of transition their womens roster is still better than the divas IMO. Taryn has only been wrestling 18 months to 2 years, she's got the right attitude, and she'll improve under the right guidance. If you're going to bring Hamada's weight into it, why don't you bring it up with Havok? she's big, and not in the muscular way. She's not fat dawwwwwww Seriously though she is a big girl. Sorry I didn't watch her in indies or anywhere else. All I've seen of her is what happened last week. Ok yay big girl go smash things. Annnnnnddddd??? Here's the thing. You are trying to sell your own product by bringing in these uniquely talented individuals and featuring them prominently. We should be basing our opinions on these people off of what we've seen. I shouldn't have to go watch another feds tapes/shows to see the potential in someone that's appearing on TNA. That's about the dumbest idea you can have. Hey we've got this great wrestler Britany, yeah she hasn't done anything of note and is generic as all hell, but if you want to see her when she's good, go watch someone else's show so you can see our performer do well......WTF!!!! I use her as an example because when I inquired about her a few months back, someone posted a video of her wrestling some other female that I can't remember the name of now. I was actually thankful because the girl that Brittany was wrestling impressed the hell out of me and I watched a few more of her matches. Brittany was just meh, and seemed like she was carried for a good portion of it. God dammit who was that person. edit : Found It La Rosa Negra....that's a bad bad woman.
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Emmet Russell
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Post by Emmet Russell on Sept 9, 2014 18:50:28 GMT -5
If you're going to bring Hamada's weight into it, why don't you bring it up with Havok? she's big, and not in the muscular way. Because she or Kong isn't sloppy, lazy in the ring nor does she have a bad attitude as Hamada did during her time there she accused Yoshi Tatsu of sexual harassment which pissed off a lot of people in Japan as it proved to be false. Everything i've seen from Havok has been sloppy. I understand that you're riding her nuts like she's the second coming, but I don't think it's helping your cause in convincing others - after all you've said, everything i've seen from her has been a severe letdown.
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Post by Pillman's Pencil on Sept 9, 2014 19:32:37 GMT -5
Because she or Kong isn't sloppy, lazy in the ring nor does she have a bad attitude as Hamada did during her time there she accused Yoshi Tatsu of sexual harassment which pissed off a lot of people in Japan as it proved to be false. Everything i've seen from Havok has been sloppy. I understand that you're riding her nuts like she's the second coming, but I don't think it's helping your cause in convincing others - after all you've said, everything i've seen from her has been a severe letdown. No I just don't think its convincing you which obviously isn't going to happen, she was very crisp on her debut and has come a long way since the real life heat with Mercedes Martinez. www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=6752 - CageMatch have some reviews of her from other fans, obviously there is a 0 rating 'because she isn't attractive' but the other 3 are overwhemingly positive.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Sept 9, 2014 19:39:06 GMT -5
Havoc could be greatest thing ever but when she'll be in the ring against people like Velvet, Angelina, Britney, and Taryn she might as well be Rosa Mendes. The simple fact is the KOs division has plummeted in quality and they have been trying to pass off chicken shit as chicken salad which very few have bought into thankfully. The KOs now are where the Divas were for so long, a sea of crap with one or two lone bright spots. Maybe if Dixie and Co. decide to take it seriously and build something, they can reach the level the Divas are at now and look to be heading in the future but I don't trust them to do that at all.
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Emmet Russell
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Post by Emmet Russell on Sept 9, 2014 19:39:32 GMT -5
Everything i've seen from Havok has been sloppy. I understand that you're riding her nuts like she's the second coming, but I don't think it's helping your cause in convincing others - after all you've said, everything i've seen from her has been a severe letdown. No I just don't think its convincing you which obviously isn't going to happen, she was very crisp on her debut and has come a long way since the real life heat with Mercedes Martinez. www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=6752 - CageMatch have some reviews of her from other fans, obviously there is a 0 rating 'because she isn't attractive' but the other 3 are overwhemingly positive. Yeah, indy fans are positive of her often. You're not the only one. I just don't see anything that the others see; she's sloppy and awkward and dresses like a Sami Callihan rip-off -- I don't see the appeal. People seem to like her just because she has a different appearance from most women and comes from the indy scene. I want to see her matches against the likes of Velvet Sky so I can see just how good she is, because I won't be praising her if she has a good match with Gail Kim - that's the easiest thing in the world.
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Post by bluemeii on Sept 9, 2014 19:47:59 GMT -5
What's with the gas mask. Is she not a fan of her own brand or something?
Meh this is just going round and round. Just boiling down to the here and now vs. maybe. Besides this cagematch.net site has Velvet rated as a 7.25 which is higher than Kenny King, Mannik, the aformentioned Havok, Madison Rayne and a full point higher than EC3 to name a few.
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Post by Pillman's Pencil on Sept 9, 2014 20:13:26 GMT -5
No I just don't think its convincing you which obviously isn't going to happen, she was very crisp on her debut and has come a long way since the real life heat with Mercedes Martinez. www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=6752 - CageMatch have some reviews of her from other fans, obviously there is a 0 rating 'because she isn't attractive' but the other 3 are overwhemingly positive. Yeah, indy fans are positive of her often. You're not the only one. I just don't see anything that the others see; she's sloppy and awkward and dresses like a Sami Callihan rip-off -- I don't see the appeal. People seem to like her just because she has a different appearance from most women and comes from the indy scene. I want to see her matches against the likes of Velvet Sky so I can see just how good she is, because I won't be praising her if she has a good match with Gail Kim - that's the easiest thing in the world. If you knew anything about her, Sami Callahan is her boyfriend, he give her the gimmick when he went to WWE. Velvet Sky has regressed badly to the point she's the worst on the roster there is a spot on September 17th/18th of Impact involving her and Rebel, where Velvet should really know better. Just because one is a WWE Diva, doesn't mean they are the best at what they do, thats horse shit. And the gas mask is part of the character, she will probably explain once you get to know her more, I'd accept critique about Havok if you knew about her, but to just dismiss her as an indy darling is just silly. She has the potential to be a draw for TNA and sell tickets, thats how good people rate her.
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Post by Pillman's Pencil on Sept 9, 2014 20:18:00 GMT -5
What's with the gas mask. Is she not a fan of her own brand or something? Meh this is just going round and round. Just boiling down to the here and now vs. maybe. Besides this cagematch.net site has Velvet rated as a 7.25 which is higher than Kenny King, Mannik, the aformentioned Havok, Madison Rayne and a full point higher than EC3 to name a few. Because more people have heard of her? Than they have Havok right now?
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JoDaNa1281
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Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender. #BLM
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Post by JoDaNa1281 on Sept 9, 2014 20:20:40 GMT -5
Havoc could be greatest thing ever but when she'll be in the ring against people like Velvet, Angelina, Britney, and Taryn she might as well be Rosa Mendes. The simple fact is the KOs division has plummeted in quality and they have been trying to pass off chicken shit as chicken salad which very few have bought into thankfully. The KOs now are where the Divas were for so long, a sea of crap with one or two lone bright spots. Maybe if Dixie and Co. decide to take it seriously and build something, they can reach the level the Divas are at now and look to be heading in the future but I don't trust them to do that at all. While I agree that there's more overall talent in the divas division than the KO's division right now, as long as the divas keep getting the shitty booking they have for the last several years, it unfortunately won't matter how talented they are.
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Post by bluemeii on Sept 9, 2014 20:30:02 GMT -5
What's with the gas mask. Is she not a fan of her own brand or something? Meh this is just going round and round. Just boiling down to the here and now vs. maybe. Besides this cagematch.net site has Velvet rated as a 7.25 which is higher than Kenny King, Mannik, the aformentioned Havok, Madison Rayne and a full point higher than EC3 to name a few. Because more people have heard of her? Than they have Havok right now? Thought this was an "in the know" site...I never heard of it before. Don't think the average RAW or Impact viewer is rushing there to rate their favorite wrestlers. By the way I did track down a couple "matches" she had...unfortunately I might have picked a couple bad ones. So until she proves otherwise she's just a big girl with a gas mask that can do a sidewalk slam. Will she get a chance with me, absolutely, she's got a unique look. Am I proclaiming her the savior of the knockouts division....no cause I got no idea if she's any good and it's not my responsibility to go looking her up to see if she's any good. It's hers and TNA's job to entertain me. I shouldn't have to do homework on the wrestlers just to know if they suck or not.
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Post by Pillman's Pencil on Sept 9, 2014 20:36:54 GMT -5
Because more people have heard of her? Than they have Havok right now? Thought this was an "in the know" site...I never heard of it before. Don't think the average RAW or Impact viewer is rushing there to rate their favorite wrestlers. By the way I did track down a couple "matches" she had...unfortunately I might have picked a couple bad ones. So until she proves otherwise she's just a big girl with a gas mask that can do a sidewalk slam. Will she get a chance with me, absolutely, she's got a unique look. Am I proclaiming her the savior of the knockouts division....no cause I got no idea if she's any good and it's not my responsibility to go looking her up to see if she's any good. It's hers and TNA's job to entertain me. I shouldn't have to do homework on the wrestlers just to know if they suck or not. So you're admitting you knew or know little about her? I've seen her live with the Death Machine gimmick and she's fantastic, and if TNA use her correctly which reading spoilers and watching her debut they are doing so far correctly, then she will be. If you have to seek stuff out... Jessicka Havok vs. Sami Callihan - WSU/CZW 2013 "Queen and King of the Ring" (5/11/13) Jessicka Havok (c) vs. Lexxus - WSU World Championship Match - WSU "Blood and Thunder" Jessicka HavoK (c) vs. Alpha Female - WSU World Championship Match - WSU "Mutiny" (2/8/14) Jessicka Havok vs. Sojo Bolt - Queens of Combat "Debut" (3/21/14) Killer Death Machines (Jessicka Havok & Nevaeh) vs. LuFisto & Kimber Lee - CZW "Prelude to Violence" 5/31/14 Killer Death Machines (Jessicka Havok & Nevaeh) vs. Taeler Hendrix & Sassy Stephie - Queens of Combat 2 (6/13/14) Jessicka Havok vs. Reby Sky (11/3/12) Jessicka Havok vs. Angeldust (1/5/13) Jessicka Havok vs. Mercedes Martinez - WSU World and Spirit Championship - WSU "The 5th Anniversary" (3/3/12)
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Post by ________ has left the building on Sept 9, 2014 20:40:07 GMT -5
See, I don't let the Net influence me on which wrestler(s) I am suppose to like. I don't care if Youtube is gushing over this person or Dave Meltzer gave this guy's match 5 stars. I go by what I see and like or dislike. Havok is good but TNA is a whole different beast. How good will she be when having to wrestling people like Sky or Madison? And she wrestled her share of shit matches in WSU. TNA isn't filled with quality women wrestlers of old. It's Divas lite. And Havok coming in won't change that. It's going to take wholesale changes like hiring female talent on the basis of their abilities not how good they look in spandex.
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Post by bluemeii on Sept 9, 2014 20:46:14 GMT -5
I've said from the beginning I know little about her. She was on a single ONO special and did a squash on last weeks show.
I've also said great you like her, wonderful. I looked a couple of her matches up and she was in one for 30 seconds out of a 15 minute clip and the match with Reby Sky that she has on her channel looked like a half speed yawnfest ending in a shitty DQ where she spent half the match trying to keep her boobs from falling out. Sorry wasn't impressed.
No I'm not going to look up any more of her matches. I'm just going to judge her for what she does on TV. Done doing homework on wrestlers then they get on TV and do nothing but disappoint. This way if she gets the ball and runs with it great. If she gets the ball and fumbles I don't have any preconceived notions about how great she is. I'm sick of hearing how great X or Z wrestler is and they show up and choke on their big break. She can just prove it to me.
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Post by Pillman's Pencil on Sept 9, 2014 21:47:59 GMT -5
I've said from the beginning I know little about her. She was on a single ONO special and did a squash on last weeks show. I've also said great you like her, wonderful. I looked a couple of her matches up and she was in one for 30 seconds out of a 15 minute clip and the match with Reby Sky that she has on her channel looked like a half speed yawnfest ending in a shitty DQ where she spent half the match trying to keep her boobs from falling out. Sorry wasn't impressed. No I'm not going to look up any more of her matches. I'm just going to judge her for what she does on TV. Done doing homework on wrestlers then they get on TV and do nothing but disappoint. This way if she gets the ball and runs with it great. If she gets the ball and fumbles I don't have any preconceived notions about how great she is. I'm sick of hearing how great X or Z wrestler is and they show up and choke on their big break. She can just prove it to me. Well you've just said you know nothing about her, so your opinion isn't really going to be taken seriously. the Reby Sky matches are years old and way before what she is now, so no you still don't have a valid argument, plus how can you make a judgement out of 30 seconds? Its a counter productive argument. Well there is a reason why they signed her, and there is a reason she is being booked like a killer, Meltzer does know more than you and has been around for 30 years, so I would take his word for it nothing to do with the 'Net'. Just because you are a fan of the Divas, failing to grasp they are not the best at what they do just because they have the bigger stage. Havok is being regarded as the best thing in the KO division in many years, I agree with that, don't like, don't watch, simples.
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JoDaNa1281
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Post by JoDaNa1281 on Sept 9, 2014 21:59:21 GMT -5
See, I don't let the Net influence me on which wrestler(s) I am suppose to like. I don't care if Youtube is gushing over this person or Dave Meltzer gave this guy's match 5 stars. I go by what I see and like or dislike. Havok is good but TNA is a whole different beast. How good will she be when having to wrestling people like Sky or Madison? And she wrestled her share of shit matches in WSU. TNA isn't filled with quality women wrestlers of old. It's Divas lite. And Havok coming in won't change that. It's going to take wholesale changes like hiring female talent on the basis of their abilities not how good they look in spandex. I think a match between her & Madison would be just fine(granted, they'll most likely have Havok squash her when they face, but a normal match could be solid).
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