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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 20, 2014 23:42:41 GMT -5
I just heard JR's podcast with Russo as the guest, didn't paid that much attention until he praised JR as being a key for WWE's success against WCW, he said that in WCW they had over 30 wrestlers taking up space but in the wwe with JR being the head of talent relations, the main scouter, the guys he signed in payroll were all superstars, everyone gave 100%. I think tna is guilty of employing guys who just took space adding to TNA's expenses. That's another reason why they need to fold, the guy signing, Gaburick, just doesn't gets the type of athlete tna needs. Unlike let's say Terry Taylor, underneath him, his guys were the x division and solid workers.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Sept 21, 2014 3:37:34 GMT -5
So to say TNA being gone would in any way effect wrestling as a whole is just incorrect. The are the CFL of American Football. Most football fans know it exist. Some non football fans even know about it. Most people other than diehard fans could be assed with watching it. The league is littered with guys who weren't good enough for the NFL or couldn't get in due to one reason or another, usually their own doing. There are a few diamonds in the rough who could play in the NFL but they are few and far between. If it were to go under majority of people wouldn't even blink an eye. Would just be people not good enough for the NFL out of jobs and the only people really upset would be those diehard fans. NFL would continue rolling along without skipping a beat and to a vast majority of fans it wouldn't even be a blip on the radar. TNA being gone would be no different. Honestly this is the reason why TNA should be around. The CFL offers people the opportunity to live their dreams playing pro football even if they weren't good enough for the NFL. TNA provides similar hope for wrestlers in a similar vein. Yes there are other wrestling promotions in the world, but they are either very obscure to the point where even hardcore wrestling nerds don't know of their existence (and even if one were to make a full time living in these promotions, few people would be able to acknowledge and appreciate their work), or they're too niche or too "workrate" oriented for certain wrestlers to fit into. Ideally TNA offers these types of talents a safe haven to perform.
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Post by creepytennis on Sept 22, 2014 17:45:20 GMT -5
Just watching last week's Impact on the DVR (it's been a busy week!). That ladder match is just superb. And some of you want this company to close? I honestly cannot understand the motivation of wanting a company to close that is putting this quality of match on free TV.
One guy said I was "insulting" people to say there was a tendency for the IWC to be unfair to TNA, but be honest, if WWE put that match on RAW internet fans would priase it to the skies.
But no, it's TNA, so following one of the best wrestling TV matches this year, we're here discussing whether we want the company to *close down*! :-)
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Fiddleford H. McGucket
El Dandy
My Mind's been gone for 30-odd years! Can't Break what's already broken!
Posts: 8,748
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Post by Fiddleford H. McGucket on Sept 22, 2014 19:00:09 GMT -5
Just watching last week's Impact on the DVR (it's been a busy week!). That ladder match is just superb. And some of you want this company to close? I honestly cannot understand the motivation of wanting a company to close that is putting this quality of match on free TV. One guy said I was "insulting" people to say there was a tendency for the IWC to be unfair to TNA, but be honest, if WWE put that match on RAW internet fans would priase it to the skies. But no, it's TNA, so following one of the best wrestling TV matches this year, we're here discussing whether we want the company to *close down*! :-) Have you bothered to read the thread? Nearly EVERYONE that wants the company to "Die/Close/etc" has said it's not due to the matches, it's the Higher-ups, booking and management from The top down. There was an itemized list at one point and at NO point was match quality mentioned. MOST of the wrestlers are working their Asses off for a crowd that wouldn't fill the proverbial "Armory/Bingo Hall".... TNA doesn't WANT hardcore fans anymore. I know it sounds odd....but if they did, Dixie wouldn't have had the infamous "Cast Members" speech a few years ago. Now you can claim "kayfabe" but.....If that were the case, it would've been on TV, NOT JUST for the live audience. TNA basically told the fans that were there EVERY taping, people that LIVED nearby and wanted to see TNA's product, that they didn't WANT them there and didn't want their feedback. They then put in plants that didn't react appropriately. The "Core Crew" left and never returned. Fans that were with the product since day one...gone. TNA has been ran into the ground by Dixie Carter. The name is poison now. I'd have no issue if they came back a week after "Dying" with the same roster and a NEW name and management, but TNA, Dixie, Panda Energy, all the stuff that isn't the TALENT of TNA needs to "die off" for TNA to make anything resembling a recovery.
Also...don't try to claim they did a name change already.....they half-assed that. Anyone that thinks otherwise......I've got Beachfront property in Kansas to sell you.
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Post by creepytennis on Sept 23, 2014 11:02:19 GMT -5
Have you bothered to read the thread? Nearly EVERYONE that wants the company to "Die/Close/etc" has said it's not due to the matches, it's the Higher-ups, booking and management from The top down. There was an itemized list at one point and at NO point was match quality mentioned. MOST of the wrestlers are working their Asses off for a crowd that wouldn't fill the proverbial "Armory/Bingo Hall".... TNA doesn't WANT hardcore fans anymore. I know it sounds odd....but if they did, Dixie wouldn't have had the infamous "Cast Members" speech a few years ago. Now you can claim "kayfabe" but.....If that were the case, it would've been on TV, NOT JUST for the live audience. TNA basically told the fans that were there EVERY taping, people that LIVED nearby and wanted to see TNA's product, that they didn't WANT them there and didn't want their feedback. They then put in plants that didn't react appropriately. The "Core Crew" left and never returned. Fans that were with the product since day one...gone. TNA has been ran into the ground by Dixie Carter. The name is poison now. I'd have no issue if they came back a week after "Dying" with the same roster and a NEW name and management, but TNA, Dixie, Panda Energy, all the stuff that isn't the TALENT of TNA needs to "die off" for TNA to make anything resembling a recovery.
Also...don't try to claim they did a name change already.....they half-assed that. Anyone that thinks otherwise......I've got Beachfront property in Kansas to sell you.Yes I've read the thread. What you're saying actually confirms what I've been saying: The IWC types want TNA to close primarily because of a long running grudge they have against the management. If you judge TNA by the current product, as I do as a straightforward wrestling fan, then it would be a big shame if they closed. If you're an IWC type or dirtsheet writer who has spent years predicting TNA's imminent demise, then obviously you want it to close so you can be proved right. But in my opinion, that's a pretty childish reason to want a company to die.
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Post by Cyno on Sept 23, 2014 11:25:37 GMT -5
By posting on this message board, you're an IWC type.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 23, 2014 12:10:25 GMT -5
I always saw myself as a Bobby Heenan type of guy, on this thread the quality of the matches is irrelevant, we're talking about the reasons it deserves to die, them being shitty management.
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Post by Cyno on Sept 23, 2014 12:57:41 GMT -5
I just like to see wrestlers I enjoy performing be paid sustainable wages and treated like actual human beings. Not that WWE is exactly great on that front, but they're better than TNA. The way they've treated the Knockouts is especially horrible.
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 23, 2014 13:43:18 GMT -5
I think part of it is how we're all phrasing our (very valid) complaints about TNA's history.
Like, I abhor the way they've often treated talent, and have gone very, very long stretches of not giving them any money or interest as a result of it. I think their constant changing of creative teams is silly and has only led to disappointment and a "too many cooks in the kitchen" situation that they are only recently digging their way out of.
Still...as somebody who wants there to at least be SOME place where more wrestlers can make a decent living than WWE (ROH is at least decently sized, but it's still not at that national level yet), I can't imagine actively hoping TNA would die. Wrestling is an insanely difficult business to make a living in, and the more avenues for wrestlers to make a living, the better, even if it's just guys getting $500 an appearance who then get to parlay that into higher asking rates on the indies.
I've said before that if the wrestling industry (WWE, TNA, all of it) can't bring itself to treat its workers like human beings, then I'd rather see the industry, as a whole, shrivel up and die...that said, I don't want to see that many people out of a job overnight, either, and would rather see companies find a way to survive and provide a revenue stream for wrestlers who work, bump, and hurt themselves routinely for our amusement. There's just no real tangible benefit at this stage to actual wrestlers if the company dies, so I can't really wrap my head around hoping it does.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2014 14:02:49 GMT -5
It looks like the problem here is that one side just wants the side that wants TNA to die, to admit that it's a ****ed up position to have because the wrestlers themselves will be screwed over.
The argument that some wrestlers will be sunk doesn't compel me to switch sides. Especially if some people have grudges against how the company is managed...
I want TNA as it is now to DIAF and a much better managed company to rise in its place whether it's TNA under a new name, whether it's Quack throwing caution to the wind and making the plunge, I honestly don't care.
I'm done trying to give a shit about whether TNA survives as a company or not. Some people have different tolerance levels on how much you can enjoy a product in spite of the messed up things that happen behind the scenes, right?
TNA is at the tipping point that I can't enjoy the product because it's so marred with a past history of screw-ups and letdowns. Though I do hear the shows are better, I'm not exactly in the position to watch their Wednesday shows anymore...
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Fiddleford H. McGucket
El Dandy
My Mind's been gone for 30-odd years! Can't Break what's already broken!
Posts: 8,748
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Post by Fiddleford H. McGucket on Sept 23, 2014 19:58:36 GMT -5
Have you bothered to read the thread? Nearly EVERYONE that wants the company to "Die/Close/etc" has said it's not due to the matches, it's the Higher-ups, booking and management from The top down. There was an itemized list at one point and at NO point was match quality mentioned. MOST of the wrestlers are working their Asses off for a crowd that wouldn't fill the proverbial "Armory/Bingo Hall".... TNA doesn't WANT hardcore fans anymore. I know it sounds odd....but if they did, Dixie wouldn't have had the infamous "Cast Members" speech a few years ago. Now you can claim "kayfabe" but.....If that were the case, it would've been on TV, NOT JUST for the live audience. TNA basically told the fans that were there EVERY taping, people that LIVED nearby and wanted to see TNA's product, that they didn't WANT them there and didn't want their feedback. They then put in plants that didn't react appropriately. The "Core Crew" left and never returned. Fans that were with the product since day one...gone. TNA has been ran into the ground by Dixie Carter. The name is poison now. I'd have no issue if they came back a week after "Dying" with the same roster and a NEW name and management, but TNA, Dixie, Panda Energy, all the stuff that isn't the TALENT of TNA needs to "die off" for TNA to make anything resembling a recovery.
Also...don't try to claim they did a name change already.....they half-assed that. Anyone that thinks otherwise......I've got Beachfront property in Kansas to sell you.Yes I've read the thread. What you're saying actually confirms what I've been saying: The IWC types want TNA to close primarily because of a long running grudge they have against the management. If you judge TNA by the current product, as I do as a straightforward wrestling fan, then it would be a big shame if they closed. If you're an IWC type or dirtsheet writer who has spent years predicting TNA's imminent demise, then obviously you want it to close so you can be proved right. But in my opinion, that's a pretty childish reason to want a company to die. You're absolutely right. It's completely childish that I want a company that's been mismanaged for nearly 4 years solid to relieve itself of said management and re-structure/rechristen itself as a legitimate competitor with real management. During the multiple posts where I said I didn't want the product itself to end, but the mismanagement to cease you saw through my brilliant smokescreen and realized my true meaning where I REALLY said that I wanted everyone involved in TNA to live penniless in the gutter and that all their fans are "filthy casuals" that wouldn't know workrate if Jushin Liger and Dynamite Kid put on a 5-star classic in their back yard. I mean I don't have any opinion that Meltzer didn't tell me to have in the first place...... I mean what straightforward fan would want their favorite wrestler to be paid on time and at a rate that is in line with the level of work they're doing? What sort of neck-bearded basement-dweller would be so obsessed and hold such a grudge that they'd expect talent to receive medical benefits of some sort and hold management's feet to the fire when it appears that it's not the case? You're DAMN RIGHT most of the IWC, and hell most WRESTLING FANS have a "Grudge" against TNA's management. They're tired of seeing TNA fail when they have the talent to succeed, the tools to compete, nearly EVERYTHING to be that fabled "#2" Promotion that WCW/WWF was in their respective times. Their continued....survival and bailing out (until recently) by Spike TV, Panda Energy, and others (Bischoff/Hervey Productions) doesn't do anything but reinforce the idea that the way they're doing business "Works". The dwindling gates, the ratings LOWER than the episode of COPS that is their lead-in (Which, to the uninitited means that RERUNS of COPS have more people tuning in JUST to watch them and tuning out as soon as TNA/Impact begins), the lack of advertising...these are reasons why People want TNA to.....y'know..let's not say die. That's why we want TNA to change. Once again. THE MATCHES ARE (usually) NOT THE PROBLEM. THE BOOKING IS.
No Conspiracy. No Grudge. No BS. The Booking and Management for/In TNA is WRONG. You have someone that paid too many people to tell her "Yes" for too long, that dug her own grave by listening to the same people that killed WCW and when she hit rock bottom.....Those same people gave her a shovel. She listened to Vince Russo and when Spike TV (See also: Viacom, one of the 3 Cable conglomerates that owns.....let's say a good.....25%-35% of ALL the cable channels out there) said NOT to or they'd pull the plug.....she basically said... "Welp...I'm too smart to be found out by them!".....and when she was.....panicked and told everyone things were fine. I don't WANT to be proven right. TNA's continued "Panic Mode" of months of taping in advance (Ala AWA's final days) and their inability to conclusively find a comparable TV deal to their SpikeTV one is proving NOBODY "Right" it's just showing that Dixie Carter and the Current Management may be the worst thing to happen to TNA. Nobody should lose their job because a "Money Mark" doesn't understand the basics of the industry they're getting into.
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Post by creepytennis on Sept 24, 2014 4:14:20 GMT -5
As I've said, if you're talking about TNA being magically replaced instantly by a better company, I'd vote for that. Who wouldn't?
But that wont happen. It can't happen. There is no other wrestling company waiting in the wings to take over. If there was it would already be kicking TNA's ass. It'll take two years absolute bare minimum for a company to get to where TNA are now. Probably a lot longer. I personally think it's more likely, given the state of the wrestling market generally, that it wont happen at all.
The poll question is this: "Do you want TNA to die?". Given that would mean wrestlers and production crew out of work, no national competition to WWE for the foreseeable future, the end of Impact which has actually been quite good for months now, the only answer a straightforward fan of wrestling like myself can give is "no".
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