Who's feuds has derailed more careers?

[JTG Fan]

Everyone must be sacrificed to the almighty Cena.

[CATCH_US IS the Conversation]

Aug 27, 2014 0:32:51 GMT -5 slaughterama said:

Cena is THE GUY, and rarely does anyone get over on him. And whether it's his doing, or Vince's, anyone that seems to get on any sort of roll organically, ultimately gets put in a program with him, and he is always the one getting booked as the clear benefactor at the end. That he doesn't have the ability, or desire, to consistently build his opponents up in his promos makes matters worse. For every 5 minute promo he cuts where he takes his challenger seriously, it still all about him and how he'll overcome the odds. Other than that 5 minute promo in his "super serious" tone, you get 30 minutes worth of him cutting up his opponent, photo shops, and poop jokes. With the undercard being tired and constantly held back, it sticks out even more.

I don't think the problem has anything directly to do with Cena. It's not that no one gets over on them. It's that because nothing else aside from his feuds (or the title feuds when he isn't involved with them) are booked to be important, once the opponent leaves a Cena program, lose or arguably if they even win the feud, they're left doing nothing. If Punk were still around or Bryan were healthy, then said heel could just be moved on to a feud with one of them where they can maintain some semblance of importance.

But since Cena is the be all end all and there are no other big time programs to feed a wrestler into post-Cena, everything else just looks like a step down or a demotion. Either they're having random "get them on the card" feuds with guys like Sheamus, Orton, Kane, Ziggler, Big Show or Miz, or they're doing Wheel of Aggression shit steamrolling the midcard because they're elevated now due to working with Cena so Creative has to still pretend they're a big deal even though they've lost interest.

[Mozenrath]

Aug 26, 2014 23:11:41 GMT -5 RusevIsGod said:

Aug 26, 2014 18:12:32 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

Big Show. The other people mentioned at least got to be in main events or other featured matches, and many of them benefited in one way or another.

Big Show, just... how many people have actually benefited from a feud with Big Show, within the last 10 or so years, in the long run? Daniel Bryan as World champion got a good level of heat on him, but other than that, it just doesn't do anyone a favor.

Ok you don't know what your talking about. The Big Show is one of the greatest and I think your just jealous of his success. The man has entertained millions for two decades with his feats of strength and any guy he beat just wasn't well, good enough and that's why they lost to him.

Alas, I must concede I am jealous of Big Show. His hands are like hams, while mine are merely cornish game hens.

[thegame415]

Creative. Cena doesn't do this with his own intention. Somebody is booking him to do it. So, they are the derailers.

[EoE: Well There's Your Problem]

Wow, I haven't seen the anti-Cena sentiment be this strong since 2005. Monday must have metaphorically been the straw that broke the camel's back.

[Eunös ✈]

If your a midcard Babyface enjoying a decent push.

For gods sake don't become friends with John Cena, It wont end well at all.

[Jiren]

Cena is like WWE's Galactus, He feeds on the pushes of the Midcard/Upper talents

So that makes him now Saiyan & Galactus.......Sailactus/Galactaiyan whatever

[CATCH_US IS the Conversation]

Aug 27, 2014 3:33:37 GMT -5 Jiren said:

Cena is like WWE's Galactus, He feeds on the pushes of the Midcard/Upper talents

So that makes him now Saiyan & Galactus.......Sailactus/Galactaiyan whatever

At least a Super Saiyan Galactus doesn't need a herald.

[Bo Rida]

Hmm that quote earlier in thread makes me think Orton is in contention, Cody, Ted Jr, Kofi, Barrett and The New Nexus are the obvious examples (although many of them were going nowhere anyway).

Even further up the card I think he's damaged Christian, Ziggler and especially The Big Show after their awful WWE title feud.
I'm also of the opinion he drags people down even when putting them over (Roman Reigns) but that's not a full derail.

Unlike the others mentioned I'm struggling to think of anybody that's really benefited from beating him in one-on-one competition other than people that were already at a high level, I'm sure my bias is making me forget good examples though (I don't count Bryan).

[Adam Black]

Aside from HHH and Cena put in Edge ang Big Show too those two guys I have never seen anyone go over those two.Edge has the same ability as Triple H where even if you win against him you still look like s***.

[The Dark Order Inferno]

Aug 27, 2014 4:05:30 GMT -5 Bo Rida said:

Hmm that quote earlier in thread makes me think Orton is in contention, Cody, Ted Jr, Kofi, Barrett and The New Nexus are the obvious examples (although many of them were going nowhere anyway).

Even further up the card I think he's damaged Christian, Ziggler and especially The Big Show after their awful WWE title feud.
I'm also of the opinion he drags people down even when putting them over (Roman Reigns) but that's not a full derail.

Unlike the others mentioned I'm struggling to think of anybody that's really benefited from beating him in one-on-one competition other than people that were already at a high level, I'm sure my bias is making me forget good examples though (I don't count Bryan).

Orton doesn't derail people, his problem is that he's a placeholder main eventer and as such, he has no rub to give people he works with. Like Sheamus and Del Rio, he's a slightly above average talent who has been elevated to main event status without forming a strong connection with the audience, he's not a guy the audience want to pay to see, or pay to see get beat so winning against him doesn't mean much and losing to him just saps a guy's heat... It's not something Orton can be blamed for, the WWE strapped a rocket to him before he was anything like the finished product so gave him no motivation to improve.

[Deleted]

Aug 26, 2014 18:12:32 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

Big Show. The other people mentioned at least got to be in main events or other featured matches, and many of them benefited in one way or another.

Big Show, just... how many people have actually benefited from a feud with Big Show, within the last 10 or so years, in the long run? Daniel Bryan as World champion got a good level of heat on him, but other than that, it just doesn't do anyone a favor.

Off the top of my head Daniel Bryan/Cody/Sheamus/Lashley/Del Rio all got more heat/sympathy through feuding with Big Show. Hell, Brock was re-established by killing Show at this years Rumble.

Don't get me wrong he's been in some hideously stupid moments which bring down the stock of others, but nowhere near as many as Cena.

[Mid-Carder]

Aug 26, 2014 22:46:23 GMT -5 abjordans said:

What career did Hogan ever derail in the first Hulkamania run? Guys he feuded with made a career of it and everyone wanted to be on his cards cause they sold out every night.

So many times this. WCW might be different but there's no question Hogan made the careers of so many people, who were stars when they worked with him. Just because he won the feuds, as he should have, doesn't mean he ruined careers. He sold like hell and made the guys out to be threats before he beat them. There's no comparison with him and the other two, in my view.

[Deleted]

As others have said, Hulk does not belong in this category. He worked with anyone and everyone back in the day, made people a ton of money, and elevated whoever he worked with in the ring (selling) and in promos. The one knock was how guys would feud with Hogan and then afterwards fall down the card, but back then, going anywhere after feuding with Hogan was a step down. After Hogan, you either turned babyface or you feuded with upper mid-card faces. Either way, Hulk was going to stay on top, so anything would have been a demotion.

I'm going to say HHH is the worst, only because he makes no one but himself look good in victory or defeat the majority of the time, but Cena is getting there. HHH does not show vulnerability as a face, does not show weakness as a heel, and more often than not makes his opponent look like shit either in promos, in the ring, or both.

[TGM]

Aug 26, 2014 23:15:02 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Cena is extremely obvious and my first choice, but I also have to say one that hasn't been mentioned yet, a sleeper pick if you will.

Hornswaggle.

That little F***tard not only ruined Careers like with Chavo Guerrero and anyone associated with him, but he destroyed the entire Cruiserweight Division in the end when they gave him the belt. That little asshole can get booted through a field goal for all I care.

Chavo Guerrero absolutely sucking ruined the career of Chavo Guerrero. And I doubt HHHornswoggle had the political pull to shut down the Cruiserweight division. I think this was another final FU from Vince to WCW.

[Mid-Carder]

We can at least say a few people (Punk, DB, Edge, Umaga, Orton, Wade) benefited from feuding with Cena, all elevated a level temporarily. The problem with Cena is that he's so far ahead of everybody that after working with him, there's no other option but to go back down the ranks. He's the top guy and justifiably so. Triple H has never had that excuse. He has to be the worst for me.

[The Dark Order Inferno]

Aug 27, 2014 5:25:39 GMT -5 TGM said:

Chavo Guerrero absolutely sucking ruined the career of Chavo Guerrero. And I doubt HHHornswoggle had the political pull to shut down the Cruiserweight division. I think this was another final FU from Vince to WCW.

Chavo is a good hand in the ring, has underrated mic skills and can play serious and comedy characters, he's not world title material and he's not his uncle, but very few people are. He deserved better than being fed to Hornswaggle.

[TGM]

Aug 27, 2014 5:32:01 GMT -5 The Dark Order Inferno said:

Aug 27, 2014 5:25:39 GMT -5 TGM said:

Chavo Guerrero absolutely sucking ruined the career of Chavo Guerrero. And I doubt HHHornswoggle had the political pull to shut down the Cruiserweight division. I think this was another final FU from Vince to WCW.

Chavo is a good hand in the ring, has underrated mic skills and can play serious and comedy characters, he's not world title material and he's not his uncle, but very few people are. He deserved better than being fed to Hornswaggle.

Chavo is one of the few wrestlers I have a legitimate dislike for. He's obviously nowhere near as good as his uncle and not many are, but his ring work is average at best and to me, he's nepotism defined.

[The Dark Order Inferno]

Aug 27, 2014 5:36:08 GMT -5 TGM said:

Aug 27, 2014 5:32:01 GMT -5 The Dark Order Inferno said:

Chavo is a good hand in the ring, has underrated mic skills and can play serious and comedy characters, he's not world title material and he's not his uncle, but very few people are. He deserved better than being fed to Hornswaggle.

Chavo is one of the few wrestlers I have a legitimate dislike for. He's obviously nowhere near as good as his uncle and not many are, but his ring work is average at best and to me, he's nepotism defined.

How? Chavo would have gotten signed by WCW with or without Eddie as they were signing just about every Mexican/Mexican American they could for the cruiser division, his ring skills and the fact he could cut decent promos in English helped him as much as his last name. They gave him a go nowhere comedy role as crazy Chavo with Pepe the stick horse and he got it over and made it great, and after that feud ended, he was retained while most of the cruisers were moving onto less racist pastures, heck, they even kept him after Eddie walked out, giving him a renewed push toward the end. He was one of the guys that the WWF wanted from WCW so brought him in as part of the alliance, which was during the period that Eddie's substance problems were making him unreliable, and again they kept Chavo even when Eddie was fired, even during the period they were dumping more promising talents due to the XFL fiasco because management saw something in him.

It takes more than a famous last name to last as long in WCW/WWE as he did, and nepotism certainly didn't save him from being fed to Hornswaggle, being repackaged as Kerwin White or being used as a prop as the WWE exploited the death of his uncle to give other people main event pushes.

[TGM]

Aug 27, 2014 6:07:22 GMT -5 The Dark Order Inferno said:

Aug 27, 2014 5:36:08 GMT -5 TGM said:

Chavo is one of the few wrestlers I have a legitimate dislike for. He's obviously nowhere near as good as his uncle and not many are, but his ring work is average at best and to me, he's nepotism defined.

How? Chavo would have gotten signed by WCW with or without Eddie as they were signing just about every Mexican/Mexican American they could for the cruiser division, his ring skills and the fact he could cut decent promos in English helped him as much as his last name. They gave him a go nowhere comedy role as crazy Chavo with Pepe the stick horse and he got it over and made it great, and after that feud ended, he was retained while most of the cruisers were moving onto less racist pastures, heck, they even kept him after Eddie walked out, giving him a renewed push toward the end. He was one of the guys that the WWF wanted from WCW so brought him in as part of the alliance, which was during the period that Eddie's substance problems were making him unreliable, and again they kept Chavo even when Eddie was fired, even during the period they were dumping more promising talents due to the XFL fiasco because management saw something in him.

It takes more than a famous last name to last as long in WCW/WWE as he did, and nepotism certainly didn't save him from being fed to Hornswaggle, being repackaged as Kerwin White or being used as a prop as the WWE exploited the death of his uncle to give other people main event pushes.

1. Well that's not really a great start: "They were hiring anyone who was Mexican"

2. WWF also brought in Bill DeMott, Buff Bagwell, Sean O'Haire, Shawn Stasiak, Justin Credible, Bryan Clark etc. all of which to make up the numbers for the WCW side because the only real stars they had from WCW where Booker T and Diamond Dallas Page. There were a dozen better workers that came over from WCW than Chavo.

3. You're writing that like it's some kind or miracle. If Chavo was so great, what bearing should Eddie being fired have on Chavo staying? They kept Primo when Carlito was fired. They kept Rosey when Jamal was fired. Cases of a more talented member of the family being fired and the lesser talented member being still being employed aren't that rare.

4. The ability to team with his uncle, I assume. Aside from that, what else did Chavo really achieve while Eddie was alive?

5. Chavo Guerrero got by on his last name after Eddie's death. I have a feeling that he would have been long released if Eddie had lived, but it would have been poor form for WWE to release him so soon after Eddie's death.