Hawk Hart
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Posts: 15,296
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Post by Hawk Hart on Aug 27, 2014 17:44:34 GMT -5
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Aug 27, 2014 17:48:16 GMT -5
Has any COPS related camera or audio guy ever been hurt while filming before?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 17:48:36 GMT -5
How do all 30 shots come from the police and it's qualified as a shootout!?
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Post by bluemeii on Aug 27, 2014 17:49:11 GMT -5
Ya'll need to have a moment of silence for him in the Impact thread tonight. Seriously though that sucks, but it was bound to happen to one of those guys sooner or later. How do all 30 shots come from the police and it's qualified as a shootout!? I guess massacre doesn't sound as good. |
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Post by mysterydriver on Aug 27, 2014 19:08:39 GMT -5
30 freaking shots? How many officers were there?
And "Officials believe that all of the shots fired came from police," is pretty much confirmed since it turns out the attempted robber had an Airsoft Pellet Gun and not an actual gun.
It's sad to read. I hope for the best for the cameraman's family and the workers/friends he left behind.
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jagilki
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Post by jagilki on Aug 27, 2014 19:26:01 GMT -5
How do all 30 shots come from the police and it's qualified as a shootout!? "Stop resisting arrest." |
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Post by Mayonnaise on Aug 27, 2014 20:29:32 GMT -5
How do all 30 shots come from the police and it's qualified as a shootout!? You gotta click past gawker, they are pure shit when it comes to pesky things like facts. According to local reports the suspect had what sounds like an Airsoft gun (like mysterydriver mentioned) which could easily pass for a Glock, leading to situations like this. |
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the2ndevil
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Post by the2ndevil on Aug 27, 2014 20:38:13 GMT -5
Has any COPS related camera or audio guy ever been hurt while filming before? That was the first thing to pop into my head, as well. |
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Hawk Hart
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sold his organs.
The Best There Is, the Best There Was, and the Best That There Ever Will Be
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Post by Hawk Hart on Aug 27, 2014 20:49:43 GMT -5
How do all 30 shots come from the police and it's qualified as a shootout!? You gotta click past gawker, they are pure shit when it comes to pesky things like facts. According to local reports the suspect had what sounds like an Airsoft gun (like mysterydriver mentioned) which could easily pass for a Glock, leading to situations like this. A man in Memphis this weekend threatened police with an actual gun, attempted to assault them, and was brought in without a shot fired. I think 30 rounds over a fake gun is a bit excessive. Source: www.myfoxmemphis.com/story/26376723/man-arrested-after-pointing-gun-at-police-officer |
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Post by Mayonnaise on Aug 27, 2014 20:58:13 GMT -5
You gotta click past gawker, they are pure shit when it comes to pesky things like facts. According to local reports the suspect had what sounds like an Airsoft gun (like mysterydriver mentioned) which could easily pass for a Glock, leading to situations like this. A man in Memphis this weekend threatened police with an actual gun, attempted to assault them, and was brought in without a shot fired. I think 30 rounds over a fake gun is a bit excessive. Source: www.myfoxmemphis.com/story/26376723/man-arrested-after-pointing-gun-at-police-officerEvery situation and every cop is different and you cannot fairly compare them at all. Yes, what happened in the story from Memphis you posted is ideal but that obviously is a far different situation than the story from Omaha just based on the little known. |
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Post by mysterydriver on Aug 27, 2014 21:14:12 GMT -5
Honestly, it makes sense to me that, if responding to reports of an armed robbery, a man holding a weapon that appears to be a gun runs out of the business, with said gun, that there could be an honest reaction of attack in progress. Whether they thought he might be going for a better position or whatever, the idea that they'd pull their weapons makes perfect sense to me.
It's the amount of shooting that kind of confuses me and I hope that more information can come out. Because it's easy to speculate in a situation where 30 shots are taken and a few manage to hit a civilian who is supposed to be under their protection. There's a million different ways it could have gone. Did the guy not think and try and get 'better position' for the sound? Did one of the cops freak out at the idea of being in a gunfight and let fly a bit much? Did the runner's path cause an accidental aiming as they attempted to lead him? Is it just a freakish accident?
Too many questions and not much information. Either way, the end result is a sad event.
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Aug 28, 2014 5:03:15 GMT -5
You gotta click past gawker, they are pure shit when it comes to pesky things like facts. According to local reports the suspect had what sounds like an Airsoft gun (like mysterydriver mentioned) which could easily pass for a Glock, leading to situations like this. A man in Memphis this weekend threatened police with an actual gun, attempted to assault them, and was brought in without a shot fired. I think 30 rounds over a fake gun is a bit excessive. Source: www.myfoxmemphis.com/story/26376723/man-arrested-after-pointing-gun-at-police-officerI don't think they had the luxury of knowing that it was a fake gun until after the fact. It's not a surprising turn of events. It's unfortunate that two men are dead, but that is kind of what happens when you pretend to have a gun and use it to commit a crime. |
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 28, 2014 5:22:35 GMT -5
You gotta click past gawker, they are pure shit when it comes to pesky things like facts. According to local reports the suspect had what sounds like an Airsoft gun (like mysterydriver mentioned) which could easily pass for a Glock, leading to situations like this. A man in Memphis this weekend threatened police with an actual gun, attempted to assault them, and was brought in without a shot fired. I think 30 rounds over a fake gun is a bit excessive. Source: www.myfoxmemphis.com/story/26376723/man-arrested-after-pointing-gun-at-police-officerGood for them. They got 3 cherries on their life lottery. That said, I wonder if anyone has ever put orange paint on the tip of a real gun to try to be sneaky. I'm sure we'll get to that point eventually. |
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Hawk Hart
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sold his organs.
The Best There Is, the Best There Was, and the Best That There Ever Will Be
Posts: 15,296
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Post by Hawk Hart on Aug 28, 2014 7:06:18 GMT -5
I don't think they had the luxury of knowing that it was a fake gun until after the fact. It's not a surprising turn of events. It's unfortunate that two men are dead, but that is kind of what happens when you pretend to have a gun and use it to commit a crime. And he also didn't fire any shots or put anyone's life at danger. You can't justify shooting at a human being 30 times over a gun that looks real. Especially when there are recent, real world examples of situations where there was a much more legitimate threat of danger that were resolved less violently. The shoot first, ask questions later mentality will never be okay with me, no matter what awful logic is employed to try and justify it. |
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Aug 28, 2014 7:30:26 GMT -5
I don't think they had the luxury of knowing that it was a fake gun until after the fact. It's not a surprising turn of events. It's unfortunate that two men are dead, but that is kind of what happens when you pretend to have a gun and use it to commit a crime. And he also didn't fire any shots or put anyone's life at danger. You can't justify shooting at a human being 30 times over a gun that looks real. Especially when there are recent, real world examples of situations where there was a much more legitimate threat of danger that were resolved less violently. The shoot first, ask questions later mentality will never be okay with me, no matter what awful logic is employed to try and justify it. To be fair, it's awful logic to assume that somebody who is brandishing a gun while committing a crime doesn't intend to use it. Brandishing a gun while committing a crime is putting somebody's life in danger, no matter your real intentions. The whole point of bringing a weapon to a crime is basically saying "Cooperate with me or I will kill you." They had no way of knowing it was a fake gun. They had no way of knowing that he didn't intend to use it--we only know all of this thanks to hindsight. You have to take threats at face value. And, to be fair to both sides of the argument, we can't exactly decide whether or not is was a reasonable use of force based on the scant information we have thus far. It could be that it was reasonable or it could be a gross overreaction. |
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 28, 2014 8:10:38 GMT -5
I don't think they had the luxury of knowing that it was a fake gun until after the fact. It's not a surprising turn of events. It's unfortunate that two men are dead, but that is kind of what happens when you pretend to have a gun and use it to commit a crime. And he also didn't fire any shots or put anyone's life at danger. You can't justify shooting at a human being 30 times over a gun that looks real. Especially when there are recent, real world examples of situations where there was a much more legitimate threat of danger that were resolved less violently. The shoot first, ask questions later mentality will never be okay with me, no matter what awful logic is employed to try and justify it. Cop lives are not worth less because they are a cop's. What you are talking about would probably result in a whole lot of deaths. Would that be peachy keen because it's just cops dying? They also do not take turns shooting, so in all likelihood, 30 bullets flew in less than 3-4 seconds, because people can miss. I am not saying they're without fault, as the result of an investigation might find that to be the case, but nothing about the facts as we know them now speak to any brutality or wrong doing in and of themselves. If a cameraman was there to get shot, though, the answers are going to come out, and who knows, you might be right, but as it stands, it honestly sounds like they did the shitty, but right thing. And say he has a real-looking gun, and threatened people with it. I doubt he presented it to them as fake. They called the cops and, hey guys, real gun, and the cops aren't going to ask him to stand still so they can get a good gander at it. He could have put it down and gone quietly. He didn't, from the sounds of it. EDIT: I will say that I think a very real dialogue needs to happen on gun violence and how shit like Ferguson needs to not be happening, but if presented by policemen with weapons, and you think you're going to be Sundance Kid, I don't feel bad if they oblige you. Put down the gun, and fight in court, your chances are far better. |
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mattperiolat
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Post by mattperiolat on Aug 28, 2014 11:11:18 GMT -5
God, I hate stories like this. Firstly because there are no winners. The cops are going to have to live with the fact that their actions killed two people, right or wrong. Secondly, a guy just doing his job got caught in the crossfire.
Truth is, we can pontificate all we want on the story, but none of us were there, knowing exactly who did what that triggered this. It's just an awful, awful thing coming at a terrible time for the police PR, especially in Missouri these days.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 11:15:46 GMT -5
Sad all the way around.
Not saying the robber shouldn't have been taken down, but yeah 30 shots and a civillian got shot by a cop - I do think a widespread re-assesment of police tactics wouldnt' be the worst thing at this point.
That episode of COPS is going to f***ing crush it in the ratings though.
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Post by HMARK Center on Aug 28, 2014 13:30:15 GMT -5
Yeesh.
I'll always say that I don't envy the position most cops are in; split second decision making, life or death analyses having to be done as rapidly as possible, oftentimes being presented with very unfair choices that could involve serious injury or death, all of that is just so tough to deal with.
Where I DO place blame is on people who cut pay and benefits for cops, thus driving away better, more qualified candidates who'll go and seek a living in another, more lucrative profession, instead, and on departments that don't seem to actually have an intelligent plan laid out for how to deal with any number of potentially dangerous situations. It feels too often like our cops are out there on their own, getting to rely on nothing but their own snap decisions and whatever weapons they may have holstered on them, when procedure should be the name of the game in enforcing peace and protecting civilian life/safety/property.
I've seen numerous videos lately of police in the UK, Germany, and other nations dealing with armed perpetrators or would-be assailants, and doing so without any casualties beyond minor injuries. Hell, Iceland JUST had their very first police death this past week...I know, Iceland isn't exactly a high population area, but you get my point. I do feel we've built too much of our police work on "just shoot!", and a lot of cops are left out there to figure it out on their own in situations where split-seconds matter.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 13:32:57 GMT -5
Whenever I watch COPS, and I often watch COPS (Thanks TNA) I always notice that their cameramen are the ballsiest motherf***ers on the show and I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often. So many times you see things like police entering a suspicious building, taking cover at the sides of the door while the cameraman is dead center, looking right in.
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