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Post by Bungle on Aug 30, 2014 1:07:35 GMT -5
Remember people wanted Chris Hero instead of Reigns?
The "Hate" was there the first night of The Shield.
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Post by benstudd on Aug 30, 2014 1:09:12 GMT -5
It's because WWE seems dead-set on doing the Batista thing again. A lot of fans didn't want to cheer Batista over Bryan (and CM Punk). Same deal here. Fans don't want to see "Above Average Big Dude" get a mega-push if it's going to be at the expense of Dean Ambrose (or a returning D-Bry). Especially since WWE has shown that if you're not in THE main-event storyline, they won't really do *anything* with you. Also it's the big muscled dude syndrome again. WWE fans barely tolerated Batista as a Top guy even in his prime. I mean beyond his feud with HHH, he wasn't a shoe-in loved star. Cause fans knew he was limited in the ring. But even though Reigns is more agile, I think Batista as far as main event matches was better in the ring than Reigns. But the night is still young....
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Post by benstudd on Aug 30, 2014 1:12:49 GMT -5
Here's the answer you are looking for: people are realising that the WWE has chosen Reigns as "their boy" and they don't think he's worthy. Hate to sound like a broken record, but with all due respect, that was inevitable since last fall, and mostly everyone was cool with it. The only thing that sounds fair is that, he hasn't improved as we thought he would. In terms of the push, I don't think WWE is forcing him down our throats. In retrospect, the pace of the push has been slow and steady. It may be slow and steady but it's just so obvious. I'll go as far as saying Reigns won't have one clean loss from now to Mania.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Aug 30, 2014 1:16:02 GMT -5
It's because WWE seems dead-set on doing the Batista thing again. A lot of fans didn't want to cheer Batista over Bryan (and CM Punk). Same deal here. Fans don't want to see "Above Average Big Dude" get a mega-push if it's going to be at the expense of Dean Ambrose (or a returning D-Bry). Especially since WWE has shown that if you're not in THE main-event storyline, they won't really do *anything* with you. Also it's the big muscled dude syndrome again. WWE fans barely tolerated Batista as a Top guy even in his prime. I mean beyond his feud with HHH, he wasn't a shoe-in loved star. Cause fans knew he was limited in the ring. But even though Reigns is more agile, I think Batista as far as main event matches was better in the ring than Reigns. But the night is still young.... Also Batista was an actual hoss, so his in ring limitations were to be expected. Reigns, being a better "athlete" than Batista, should be held to a higher standard in the in-ring department, because he doesn't have the excuse of being "too muscular to move well". He just isn't up to par. And there are better options for "big muscled dudes", like Cesaro.
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Post by benstudd on Aug 30, 2014 1:28:06 GMT -5
Also it's the big muscled dude syndrome again. WWE fans barely tolerated Batista as a Top guy even in his prime. I mean beyond his feud with HHH, he wasn't a shoe-in loved star. Cause fans knew he was limited in the ring. But even though Reigns is more agile, I think Batista as far as main event matches was better in the ring than Reigns. But the night is still young.... Also Batista was an actual hoss, so his in ring limitations were to be expected. Reigns, being a better "athlete" than Batista, should be held to a higher standard in the in-ring department, because he doesn't have the excuse of being "too muscular to move well". He just isn't up to par. And there are better options for "big muscled dudes", like Cesaro. But chicks love the hair. As a photo-finish you have one guy with a gorgeous mane of hair and a bald guy. I'm sure this must play into Vince's decision.
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AFN: Judge Shred
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Posts: 18,221
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Post by AFN: Judge Shred on Aug 30, 2014 1:40:43 GMT -5
I like him still, but he needs more time to season. Plus it does feel like an unnatural push. I think he could be a huge star for a long time, but he needs more grapples (seriously, his only regular one is a Samoan Drop as far as I can recall), almost everything he does is a running strike.
He isn't ready, but he could be given some time.
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Madagascar Fred
El Dandy
TAFKA roidzilla and SUFFERIN' SUCCOTASH SON!
Posts: 8,784
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Post by Madagascar Fred on Aug 30, 2014 1:47:50 GMT -5
I don't mind him per se, his superman booking hurts him though...no vulnerability whatsoever
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hassanchop
Grimlock
Who are you to doubt Belldandy?
Posts: 14,749
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Post by hassanchop on Aug 30, 2014 2:16:28 GMT -5
Because it's cool to hate? I dunno.
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Emmet Russell
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The best wrestler on earth.
Posts: 12,526
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Post by Emmet Russell on Aug 30, 2014 2:31:41 GMT -5
Because Reigns is being groomed as the next top guy -- people don't like change. They beg for it and beg for it, but when they actually get it they reject it.
It never used to be the case. People begged for Hogan, they got Hogan and loved it. People begged for Austin, they got Austin and loved it. They begged for Rock, they got the Rock and loved it. People begged for Cena and ... well ... they loved it for a little while, and then rejected it. WWE sticks to it's guns now because the people have rejected all the stars the WWE wanted to make and tried to make their own by going against the system: Bryan and Punk being the top two examples i'd say. Now because Roman is a company-groomed guy and not a guy that the fans caused to break out, there's going to be some hate and rejection, but I like Reigns and I feel he'll win the rest of the people over in time.
He's still got a lot of weaknesses right now, but those will go away over time and I hope the people give him a chance to improve and don't start shitting all over him before he gets that chance.
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Bub (BLM)
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Fed. Up.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Aug 30, 2014 2:42:40 GMT -5
Because he's taking a spot away from somebody more "worthy", like that guy from the indies. So tired of the "indy" argument. Dolph Ziggler is one of the most popular wrestlers on the internet, and he never set foot in an indy promotion. He's homegrown WWE through-and-through. That indy favoritism nonsense is a myth, and exists only as a crutch for topics just like this one. People latch onto entertaining guys who can wrestle, regardless of where they come from. The reason people are being so negative towards Roman Reigns has nothing to do with indies and everything to do with his booking as Lashley 2.0.
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Post by Bert Hart on Aug 30, 2014 2:43:12 GMT -5
I can't sour on someone who I was never a fan of in the first place.
My opinion of the Shield from their inception to their end:
Dean Ambrose - The clear leader and star of the group Rollins - The jobber who takes the pin-fall when they have to lose, but is really good at pin-balling around and bumping Reigns - The generic "tough guy" of the group who is just there for hot tags and power moves
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Aug 30, 2014 2:43:35 GMT -5
Because Reign's is being groomed as the next top guy -- people don't like change. They beg for it and beg for it, but when they actually get it they reject it. It never used to be the case. People begged for Hogan, they got Hogan and loved it. People begged for Austin, they got Austin and loved it. They begged for Rock, they got the Rock and loved it. People begged for Cena and ... well ... they loved it for a little while, and then rejected it. WWE sticks to it's guns now because the people have rejected all the stars the WWE wanted to make and tried to make their own by going against the system: Bryan and Punk being the top two examples i'd say. Now because Roman is a company-groomed guy and not a guy that the fans caused to break out, there's going to be some hate and rejection, but I like Reigns and I feel he'll win the rest of the people over in time. He's still got a lot of weaknesses right now, but those will go away over time and I hope the people give him a chance to improve and don't start shitting all over him before he gets that chance. Sadly the reason why the fans don't accept WWE's chosen ones is because most of the time they don't have the chops to carry the company, they get the trigger pulled on them too early before their potential has been fully realized, or they've been ruined by bad booking. WWE hasn't realized that the fans will accept a super push if the wrestler had the ability to back it up. A "forced down your throats" CM Punk or Daniel Bryan would've been embraced. WWE doesn't have to book them as being against the system. If the fans get behind a talent, the system should follow suit and back that talent. Reigns will improve, but WWE should wait UNTIL then before pushing him as the Next Big Thing.
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Emmet Russell
King Koopa
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The best wrestler on earth.
Posts: 12,526
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Post by Emmet Russell on Aug 30, 2014 2:48:02 GMT -5
Because Reign's is being groomed as the next top guy -- people don't like change. They beg for it and beg for it, but when they actually get it they reject it. It never used to be the case. People begged for Hogan, they got Hogan and loved it. People begged for Austin, they got Austin and loved it. They begged for Rock, they got the Rock and loved it. People begged for Cena and ... well ... they loved it for a little while, and then rejected it. WWE sticks to it's guns now because the people have rejected all the stars the WWE wanted to make and tried to make their own by going against the system: Bryan and Punk being the top two examples i'd say. Now because Roman is a company-groomed guy and not a guy that the fans caused to break out, there's going to be some hate and rejection, but I like Reigns and I feel he'll win the rest of the people over in time. He's still got a lot of weaknesses right now, but those will go away over time and I hope the people give him a chance to improve and don't start shitting all over him before he gets that chance. Sadly the reason why the fans don't accept WWE's chosen ones is because most of the time they don't have the chops to carry the company, they get the trigger pulled on them too early before their potential has been fully realized, or they've been ruined by bad booking. WWE hasn't realized that the fans will accept a super push if the wrestler had the ability to back it up. A "forced down your throats" CM Punk or Daniel Bryan would've been embraced. Reigns will improve, but WWE should wait UNTIL then before pushing him as the Next Big Thing. I think they will wait on Reigns though. Yes, he's getting a good push now facing - and defeating - guys like Orton and Kane, but I don't see him replacing Cena anytime soon and if Bryan does come back for the Rumble there's no chance they'd put Reigns over Bryan as the fans would instantly reject and boo like they did for Batista and that's not the reaction they want for a guy they feel will be taking over from Cena one day. I think Bryan will be facing and defeating Lesnar at Mania while Reigns has a big match on the show, likely against HHH, that solidifies him further but won't make him the top guy yet.
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Aug 30, 2014 3:09:38 GMT -5
Because Reigns is being groomed as the next top guy -- people don't like change. They beg for it and beg for it, but when they actually get it they reject it. It never used to be the case. People begged for Hogan, they got Hogan and loved it. People begged for Austin, they got Austin and loved it. They begged for Rock, they got the Rock and loved it. People begged for Cena and ... well ... they loved it for a little while, and then rejected it. WWE sticks to it's guns now because the people have rejected all the stars the WWE wanted to make and tried to make their own by going against the system: Bryan and Punk being the top two examples i'd say. Now because Roman is a company-groomed guy and not a guy that the fans caused to break out, there's going to be some hate and rejection, but I like Reigns and I feel he'll win the rest of the people over in time. Difference is, Hogan and Rock had bucketloads of charisma to make up for their in-ring talent and Austin was just gold with everything that he did. Reigns is... well, I could understand his push if he demonstrated even 1 tenth of the Rock's or Hogan's charisma but he doesn't. He's mediocre to every degree. I don't think it's fair to say current fans reject WWE pushes. They were fine with Ryback until WWE dropped the ball because Ryback's push played to his strengths, wasn't forced down our throats with him destroying every main event heel, he actually had moves and has much more charisma than Reigns.
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Bub (BLM)
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Fed. Up.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Aug 30, 2014 3:12:27 GMT -5
It never used to be the case. People begged for Hogan, they got Hogan and loved it. People begged for Austin, they got Austin and loved it. They begged for Rock, they got the Rock and loved it. People begged for Cena and ... well ... they loved it for a little while, and then rejected it. WWE sticks to it's guns now because the people have rejected all the stars the WWE wanted to make and tried to make their own by going against the system Here's the difference, though. People wanted Hogan as he was, and they got Hogan as he was. People begged for Stone Cold as a top guy, and they got Stone Cold as a top guy with no changes in character. Same for The Rock. And then there's Cena. People were begging for the Doctor of Thuganomics Cena as a top guy, but as soon as he got to a top spot, his character was dropped and he turned into a generic superhero and later a fake Marine. They took the guy the fans wanted and stripped away everything they liked about him in the first place. Then they do what they do now, which is outright ignoring the fans altogether and just pushing whoever the hell they want, which is absurd from a business standpoint. Typically you would try and feature the guys your paying audience is begging for. Not Vince McMahon, damn it! You're going to take Lashley, Sheamus, and Del Rio and you're going to like it! Oh, and screw all those guys you cheer loudest for.
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Post by Slammy Award-Winning Cannibal on Aug 30, 2014 3:16:13 GMT -5
Remember people wanted Chris Hero instead of Reigns? The "Hate" was there the first night of The Shield. Haha aw. Chris Hero. I remember him. He's like 300 lbs now. WWE definitely made the right call to fire him.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Aug 30, 2014 3:16:53 GMT -5
It never used to be the case. People begged for Hogan, they got Hogan and loved it. People begged for Austin, they got Austin and loved it. They begged for Rock, they got the Rock and loved it. People begged for Cena and ... well ... they loved it for a little while, and then rejected it. WWE sticks to it's guns now because the people have rejected all the stars the WWE wanted to make and tried to make their own by going against the system Here's the difference, though. People wanted Hogan as he was, and they got Hogan as he was. People begged for Stone Cold as a top guy, and they got Stone Cold as a top guy with no changes in character. Same for The Rock. And then there's Cena. People were begging for the Doctor of Thuganomics Cena as a top guy, but as soon as he got to a top spot, his character was dropped and he turned into a generic superhero and later a fake Marine. They took the guy the fans wanted and stripped away everything they liked about him in the first place. Then they do what they do now, which is outright ignoring the fans altogether and just pushing whoever the hell they want, which is absurd from a business standpoint. Typically you would try and feature the guys your paying audience is begging for. Not Vince McMahon, damn it! You're going to take Lashley, Sheamus, and Del Rio and you're going to like it! Oh, and screw all those guys you cheer loudest for. In fairness The Doctor of Thuganomics was too gimmicky to be a main event level persona.
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Emmet Russell
King Koopa
Quieter
The best wrestler on earth.
Posts: 12,526
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Post by Emmet Russell on Aug 30, 2014 3:17:02 GMT -5
Because Reigns is being groomed as the next top guy -- people don't like change. They beg for it and beg for it, but when they actually get it they reject it. It never used to be the case. People begged for Hogan, they got Hogan and loved it. People begged for Austin, they got Austin and loved it. They begged for Rock, they got the Rock and loved it. People begged for Cena and ... well ... they loved it for a little while, and then rejected it. WWE sticks to it's guns now because the people have rejected all the stars the WWE wanted to make and tried to make their own by going against the system: Bryan and Punk being the top two examples i'd say. Now because Roman is a company-groomed guy and not a guy that the fans caused to break out, there's going to be some hate and rejection, but I like Reigns and I feel he'll win the rest of the people over in time. Difference is, Hogan and Rock had bucketloads of charisma to make up for their in-ring talent and Austin was just gold with everything that he did. Reigns is... well, I could understand his push if he demonstrated even 1 tenth of the Rock's or Hogan's charisma but he doesn't. He's mediocre to every degree. I don't think it's fair to say current fans reject WWE pushes. They were fine with Ryback until WWE dropped the ball because Ryback's push played to his strengths, wasn't forced down our throats with him destroying every main event heel, he actually had moves and has much more charisma than Reigns. If anything, I think the fans are a huge part in the downfall of Ryback; they kept chanting Goldberg at him until he was near the end of the match and doing his finish. I put a lot of blame on the fans. That and the WWE booking him too quickly into title matches that he was never going to win due to them building to Rock's title match with Punk. You're right about Hogan and Rock though, they do have bucketloads of charisma and it got them over. Reigns lacks it, but he can make it up in other areas by being a bad-ass with a great moveset who the fans can get behind as a guy who dominates competition. It worked for a guy I mentioned a little earlier: Goldberg. Not everyone needs to be able to quote a catchphrase week in and week out to be a big star in the business. You just have to make people believe in you.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Aug 30, 2014 3:19:33 GMT -5
Here's the difference, though. People wanted Hogan as he was, and they got Hogan as he was. People begged for Stone Cold as a top guy, and they got Stone Cold as a top guy with no changes in character. Same for The Rock. And then there's Cena. People were begging for the Doctor of Thuganomics Cena as a top guy, but as soon as he got to a top spot, his character was dropped and he turned into a generic superhero and later a fake Marine. They took the guy the fans wanted and stripped away everything they liked about him in the first place. Then they do what they do now, which is outright ignoring the fans altogether and just pushing whoever the hell they want, which is absurd from a business standpoint. Typically you would try and feature the guys your paying audience is begging for. Not Vince McMahon, damn it! You're going to take Lashley, Sheamus, and Del Rio and you're going to like it! Oh, and screw all those guys you cheer loudest for. In fairness The Doctor of Thuganomics was too gimmicky to be a main event level persona. I agree to an extent. They could have done away with the rapping but kept the attitude, but they completely chopped his balls off.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Aug 30, 2014 3:24:22 GMT -5
Remember people wanted Chris Hero instead of Reigns? The "Hate" was there the first night of The Shield. Haha aw. Chris Hero. I remember him. He's like 300 lbs now. WWE definitely made the right call to fire him. For once i agree with you on someone. . But let's be fair. He's "300 lbs" now because he's dealing with some bad injuries. That's why he dropped his belt to Drew. I actually accepted Reigns at the beginning. I didn't want Hero in the Shield simply because I felt he deserved to break out with his own individual persona and I didn't want the Shield to be labeled as an "Indy darling stable". But what hurt Reigns in my eyes that it seemed obvious from the beginning that he was to be the breakout star of the group. Ambrose and Rollins are talented guys, but it seemed like they were doomed to be the "Jannettys" of the Shield simply because of WWE's preferences. When they were doing six man tags, I didn't even know that Seth or Dean had finishers because every match would end with a Reigns spear.
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