The Koko B. Ware HoF argument

[Kevin Hamilton]

You see this every time there's arguments over whether someone's 'qualified' to be in the Hall of Fame. Put aside the fact that it's a silly conversation to have when there's no actual criteria; but the whole crux of the statement is 'X should go in there, I mean if KOKO can get in..' 'I can't believe Y isn't in there, KOKO is in there...'

It's just unfair to the Birdman. Koko was pretty damned over boys and girls. Certainly there are bigger names yet to be inducted and such, there's no denying that. It just feels like poor Koko gets shit on as some glaring aberration when the dude was a popular midcard act.

So yeah, Koko, that guy was alright.

[Shazam]

See, that's just it. He wasn't that over. He was no more over than say Zack Ryder has been. And Zack at least has held titles, where Koko's gold count was zero.

The height of Koko's career was singing Piledriver. Seriously. From being one of the PYT's pre-WWE to being midcard jobber fodder to up and coming heels, to wearing baggy pants with Owen, he never really did *anything* except have a bird flap its wings and tease the Ghostbuster before getting pinned. Can you remember a relevant Koko victory? I can't.

He is the least qualified person to be in the Hall of Fame. It was clearly done as a favor to get him a few extra bucks for indy bookings, which, I'm 1000% for. I'd much rather have the entity do something for those who need it than those that don't (i.e. Ric Flair for example. Probably the greatest wrestler ever, but his HOF entry really didn't improve his life any.)

But to state at the same time that it takes away the credibility of others who are being considered? Yeah, it does. It pretty much opens the door to every midcard jobber that was ever in the business. Case and point, how many times has he been invited back? It's not like people are clammering for him on any level.

I think as a favor to a journeyman who did a lot of good grunt work for you? Awesome idea, great to have him in the HOF. As a move to honor people in the traditional Hall of Fame sense? The worst decision WWE made about it. Just depends on what you want the HOF to be.

[Mozenrath]

I don't agree with that, but I also think that a hall of fame should be inclusive.

For example, I think the baseball hall of fame actually has less credibility than it could due to stuff like Pete Rose being out, Shoeless Joe Jackson, etc, over petty shit.

[Kevin Hamilton]

I look at it as exactly what it is, a simple honorific to say 'hey thanks'. Which is the crux of my argument. It doesn't take away any credibility because there is no criteria.

[Urethra Franklin]

But the thing is, there's no specific metric to define one's HoF candidacy or a list of criteria that needs to be met.

It's an entirely subjective honour (in all halls of fame, really, but WWE especially), so the fact that Koko is in and Randy Savage isn't can be attributed directly to that.

It's kind of a pointless argument, really.

[Slammy Award-Winning Cannibal]

It's very shortsighted for anyone to dismiss Koko's WWE career. He was very over with fans, had a memorable gimmick that he sold with his charisma, which made him one of the most beloved characters of the 80's. That's more than enough criteria to warrant a HOF induction.

Scores of wrestlers today wish they could be as electric as Koko B Ware was in his prime.

[Deleted]

I remember someone trying to make the same case for Ted DiBiase, that because HE was in, ANYONE should be able to get in.

Just...what.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

In fairness when you compared Koko in kayfabe terms to someone like, say, Roddy Piper, there's not a great deal separating them. I mean sure Roddy main evented some major shows, but as far as titles and achivements there's not a great deal of separation.

[TGM]

The only HoF criteria is whether or not somebody is on good terms with WWE.

That's literally it.

[Martin: #TeamBella Treasurer]

I really feel bad for Koko when someone says that. He gets a great pop at WrestleMania 6 in Toronto. I don't think a Hall of Fame based on win/loss records and titles/achievements can be done in pro wrestling where it is all decided beforehand. Did he get over because he brought his parrot to the ring? Probably. But hes not the first or last person to catch on using a unique gimmick. Jobber or not, Koko was a national star, unlike some regional names they have inducted (some of the Von Erichs, now I feel bad saying that about them lol).

[Deleted]

Makes me wonder what got Koko in, how Vince or whoever made the decision.

He was an 80s midcarder, when midcarders mattered.
He had about 40% to 70% crowd support (think John Cena if the negative people were silent).
He had a cool bird and cool clothes.
He is about 30% as charismatic as the Rock.
He appeared at WrestleMania 3, 4, 6, and 8 (Was also at 7, but a dark match)

I guess that oughta do it?

[RowdyRobbyPiper]

Koko is a weird case in that he was much more strongly booked in the territory days than he was in the WWF. A year before he debuted in Vince's promotion, Koko main evented Mid-South Coliseum in an NWA title match against Flair and was able to put together one helluva match (supposedly, the match was originally supposed to be Lawler, but Lawler suggested Koko instead). Koko got over with Frankie, and I loved watching the guy back in the day, but I really, really think Koko deserved better booking in the WWF because he WAS a great worker and performer.

[RowdyRobbyPiper]

[I'm Team Bayley and Indi]

It's odd to me more people seem to question Koko B. Ware's inclusion in the HOF then Drew Carey.

[Shazam]

Because Carey is in the "Celebrity" wing, which is basically "Hi, thanks for being a part of WWE and cross-promoting. The first year, it was for Pete Rose, then they just kept it going and realized that the pool was pretty shallow for celebs. I mean, we're one or two years away from a Snooki induction.

But, as seconded by people on here, the crux of the argument is this. If you think the hall of fame is just pretty much another lap around the track for old timers that are still around (or their kids or whatever), then Koko's induction is solid.

If you want the WWE HOF to be meaningful in the traditional sports way, as a creme de la creme sort of place, then Koko's induction is crap at best. As people have been defending him on here, there have been two things that have been mentioned:


A)He got a decent pop at a PPV.
B)He wrestled Flair once.

With that criteria, about 65% of wrestlers prior to 1990 could be included at one point or another.

It's no hate against Koko as a performer, he was good times, but if you want to try and view the HOF as something that represents the best of the best, it can't be done realistically without the "Koko argument".

:-(

[Bob Schlapowitz]

Sept 1, 2014 1:33:37 GMT -5 Shazam said:

See, that's just it. He wasn't that over. He was no more over than say Zack Ryder has been. And Zack at least has held titles, where Koko's gold count was zero.

Jake Roberts' gold count was zero, too. Titles weren't handed out like candy back then. I'd say the fact that people still fondly remember Koko 20+ years since his last WWE days mean he is worthy of a spot in the Hall.

[The Dark Order Inferno]

Koko was entertaining, memorable, good at his craft and over, both before, during and after his WWE stint, that's all you really need to be considered a success in wrestling and is more than enough to make him worthy of an induction into the hall of fame of a staged sport. He wasn't a big enough name to we worthy of headlining a HOF ceremony, but very few people are.

[Kris]

In a company where few ever even get a chance to work for, Koko B. Ware was a beloved undercard baby face there for eight years. As mentioned before, he is a fondly remembered character 20+ years after his active television career ended. No questions asked Hall of Fame worthy.

[Vice honcho room temperature]

People still remember him fondly that's good enough for me

[Manute Bol]

Sept 1, 2014 1:33:37 GMT -5 Shazam said:

See, that's just it. He wasn't that over. He was no more over than say Zack Ryder has been.

Just quoting this because it's absolutely hilarious that people out there might actually believe this.

Sept 1, 2014 1:33:37 GMT -5 Shazam said:

And Zack at least has held titles, where Koko's gold count was zero.

Jake Roberts, Jimmy Snuka, Bam Bam Bigelow, Paul Orndorff, George Steele, Vader, Junkyard Dog, Dusty Rhodes, Harley Race, Jim Duggan and countless others never held gold in the WWE either. You know who has? Heath Slater, Rene Dupree, Ezekiel Jackson, and one of Godfather's hos. Championships don't mean much as far as Hall of Fame credentials go in a fake sport.

Sept 1, 2014 1:33:37 GMT -5 Shazam said:

He is the least qualified person to be in the Hall of Fame.

Drew Carey?

Sept 1, 2014 1:33:37 GMT -5 Shazam said:

It was clearly done as a favor to get him a few extra bucks for indy bookings

Oh yes clearly that was the case. Please continue to educate us all with these insightful facts you have made up.