Playing to the Hard Camera

[Deleted]

Anyone else wish they'd tone that down, a lot?

I dunno, it just kind of occurred to me watching of all things an Ernest Miller / Mike Sanders match. People never play to the crowd anymore. This one has a bit at the opening with them both standing on the corners motioning for cheers, then when Sanders isn't the one getting it he jumps Cat in the corner. Really sets the tone for the match and gets the crowd riled up, you know the drill - pretty standard stuff but it gets the job done (and the match was actually pretty decent if you're wondering).

So... Why do we never see anything like that? Like, I know WWE prefers to have people play to the TV crowd, and I can understand why, but does it seem weird to anyone else how seemingly no one is ever allowed to pose or anything unless they're looking dead-on at the camera? I get doing it generally but I mean, seriously, it never happens. Like, if Austin were a star nowadays he'd only been doing the raising the hands on the top rope on one side instead of walking around between all four.

I'm not sure if I'm communicating my grievance properly here, but it just looks really awkward how everyone always just faces the screen and always moves someone so they can hit their finisher facing it. I get trying to prioritize it but I think it's a big part of why every single match and segment feels exactly the same, since you're seeing such a limited amount of camera angles and given moves are always seen with the same framing and, for lifting ones, with a ton of telegraphing and stalling first while they rotate around to hit it correctly. Plus it removes all kinds of easy ways to get heat (I know, for some reason they're banning plenty of others anyway) and kills a lot of the crowd involvement since unless you're sitting on one specific side of the arena you go completely unacknowledged. It just seems like another one of those, "Man, Vince and Dunn need to go the f*** away," situations to me.

[Prince Petty]

One of the most striking differences between the product now and the product of the Attitude Era is the fact that, back then, guys played to the crowd, first and foremost. They wanted to get a reaction from the crowd, more than they wanted to ensure the people watching at home saw what they were doing clearly.

And that's probably one of many reasons why crowds were so much hotter, back then. Faces appealed directly to them, heels incited them. Promos also felt more real (not just because they were less scripted) because guys seemed to have more freedom, and generally faced in the direction of their target. If the promo was to the crowd, they'd pace the ring and focus on different sections of the crowd, if the promo was to another wrestler who wasn't in the ring, they'd usually face the ramp, knowing the wrestler was backstage somewhere.

All of that made more sense to me than a guy who makes sure that the TV cameras get a good shot of him. Even good promos suffer when a guy has to stand there and stare at the hard camera, ignoring the fans all around him, ignoring the fact that he isn't even looking in the direction of the object of his anger, who is hanging around in the locker room area or wherever.

It just feels like another instance of micromanagement that actually hurts the overall product.

[Deleted]

They do so many things I fundamentally disagree with, and this is a big one. Yet I watch, because I love wrestling. But, WWE seems hellbent on making wrestling into something entirely different.

[Deleted]

Buy tickets on the hard camera side, check out asses.

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2014 18:09:07 GMT -5 @lovehater said:

They do so many things I fundamentally disagree with, and this is a big one. Yet I watch, because I love wrestling. But, WWE seems hellbent on making wrestling into something entirely different.

I really think Vince at some point began to suffer some sort of mental illness and he just arbitrarily finds things that annoy him. Like, some week there's suddenly going to be an Irish whip ban or something.

[Prince Petty]

Sept 18, 2014 18:24:57 GMT -5 Lizuka #BLM said:

Sept 18, 2014 18:09:07 GMT -5 @lovehater said:

They do so many things I fundamentally disagree with, and this is a big one. Yet I watch, because I love wrestling. But, WWE seems hellbent on making wrestling into something entirely different.

I really think Vince at some point began to suffer some sort of mental illness and he just arbitrarily finds things that annoy him. Like, some week there's suddenly going to be an Irish whip ban or something.

I'm not going to lie, I would love it if Vince came back as Senile, Cranky Vince, and did arbitrarily ban different moves, each week. Irish Whips one week, then DDTs the next, then no top rope moves the week after (in a tribute to Bill Watts).

[4real]

I don't like it when guys do promos to the hard camera in the ring especially if they are calling somebody out. If they are talking to the crowd fine but trash talking no, talk to the ramp!

[Deleted]

Yep, it ticked me off Monday.

Go to 1:46.

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2014 19:15:28 GMT -5 @kn said:

Yep, it ticked me off Monday.

Go to 1:46.

That....

That is one of the most absurd things I have ever seen. Holy crap. I'd have made this thread three days ago had I been watching.

[mcstoklasa]

Saw an interview with Bryan about his WM30 winning celebration in the ring. He said it was wonderful but the producers kept telling him to keep on doing the yes chant as the confetti rained down.

Of course he should do the yes chant a lot, especially as he's just won the title. But can't do some other spontaneous celebrations too? And not always just facing the hard camera. Otherwise it's (Vince?) forcing a moment which doesn't need to be forced. Plus Bryan said yessing with two heavy belts was difficult after a while

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2014 19:38:13 GMT -5 mcstoklasa said:

Saw an interview with Bryan about his WM30 winning celebration in the ring. He said it was wonderful but the producers kept telling him to keep on doing the yes chant as the confetti rained down.

Of course he should do the yes chant a lot, especially as he's just won the title. But can't do some other spontaneous celebrations too? And not always just facing the hard camera. Otherwise it's (Vince?) forcing a moment which doesn't need to be forced. Plus Bryan said yessing with two heavy belts was difficult after a while

To be fair, Vince wasn't there at the time, so that'd have been Dunn or Triple H's call.

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2014 19:17:16 GMT -5 Lizuka #BLM said:

Sept 18, 2014 19:15:28 GMT -5 @kn said:

Yep, it ticked me off Monday.

Go to 1:46.

That....

That is one of the most absurd things I have ever seen. Holy crap. I'd have made this thread three days ago had I been watching.

Yeah it wasn't organic and just looked so fake, I couldn't believe it. Sad it's come to that.

["Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik]

I really hate how obvious it can be sometimes. It is clear anytime Ryback hits the Shellshock. He has to flip over to make sure his face is on the hard camera despite the fact that it just wastes time and makes it harder to secure the pin.

[Robbymac]

I always liked when Sting delivered his anti WCW promo after Fall Brawl 96 he intentionally DIDNT look at the hard camera to make a point.

[Deleted]

WWE really, really needs to loosen up. They're squeezing the life out of their performers and shows.

The skeptic in me thinks they control things so tightly to cut-down on the wrestlers' individualism, making them more replaceable.

[Nic Nemeth]

I always found it funny how some reports say there are half-full arenas and no one is on the hard camera side sometimes. Must be awkward for the wrestlers to perform in front of a handful of people in 3-4 rows cause they packed everyone else behind them to appear like they sold out.

[Dean-o]

Sept 18, 2014 23:58:49 GMT -5 Nic Nemeth said:

I always found it funny how some reports say there are half-full arenas and no one is on the hard camera side sometimes. Must be awkward for the wrestlers to perform in front of a handful of people in 3-4 rows cause they packed everyone else behind them to appear like they sold out.

Do you remember that Smackdown taping from a year or two again that had like TNA level's of attendance? The whole hard camera side was full but everywhere else was empty. The wrestlers still did poses on the empty side of the arena to make it appear that the whole place was packed. The wrestlers are no longer trained to entertain the live fans. They are there for the cameras.

A big reason why crowds are so dead, and why I no longer feel the need to attend live shows, is that the crowd is no longer a part of the show. There is one person in attendance these days, and that's the hard camera. You're just buying a ticket to make the place look good on tv. They have little to no interaction wih the product anymore. This is why i'm not suprised when the fans "hijack" the show with random chants. Why should I be? The WWE doesn't give them much to do anymore.

Just one of the many production grips I feel is REALLY hurting the product, and this thread makes me happy to know there are others who share the same feelings. Sure, they achive their goal of consistency and making every show feel the same, but they've created an extremely scripted, predictable, and therefore, boring television program.

[Deleted]

Sept 19, 2014 0:34:29 GMT -5 Dean-o said:

Sept 18, 2014 23:58:49 GMT -5 Nic Nemeth said:

I always found it funny how some reports say there are half-full arenas and no one is on the hard camera side sometimes. Must be awkward for the wrestlers to perform in front of a handful of people in 3-4 rows cause they packed everyone else behind them to appear like they sold out.

Do you remember that Smackdown taping from a year or two again that had like TNA level's of attendance? The whole hard camera side was full but everywhere else was empty. The wrestlers still did poses on the empty side of the arena to make it appear that the whole place was packed. The wrestlers are no longer trained to entertain the live fans. They are there for the cameras.

A big reason why crowds are so dead, and why I no longer feel the need to attend live shows, is that the crowd is no longer a part of the show. There is one person in attendance these days, and that's the hard camera. You're just buying a ticket to make the place look good on tv. They have little to no interaction wih the product anymore. This is why i'm not suprised when the fans "hijack" the show with random chants. Why should I be? The WWE doesn't give them much to do anymore.

Just one of the many production grips I feel is REALLY hurting the product, and this thread makes me happy to know there are others who share the same feelings. Sure, they achive their goal of consistency and making every show feel the same, but they've created an extremely scripted, predictable, and therefore, boring television program.

I attended the Raw after this years's Royal Rumble, and while the show wasn't bad, I decided I'm not going to any television shows anymore. I had already attended a few Smackdown tapings and decided against those, but I thought the atmosphere was bad becuase it was taped.. Even being live at Raw felt...lifeless. Next time a house show comes around, I'd be open to checking that out, but no more TV tapings for me.

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2014 20:33:47 GMT -5 "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik said:

I really hate how obvious it can be sometimes. It is clear anytime Ryback hits the Shellshock. He has to flip over to make sure his face is on the hard camera despite the fact that it just wastes time and makes it harder to secure the pin.

Mania comes to mind too. Taker's going for the Tombstone, Lesnar flips over... then Taker just uselessly lies there on his shoulders not even bothering to struggle while Lesnar slowly waves him around for the camera to see.

[mcstoklasa]

Sept 18, 2014 19:15:28 GMT -5 @kn said:

Yep, it ticked me off Monday.

Go to 1:46.

I totally 100% agree with you. It seems such a silly thing to moan about BUT...............

It kills off the realism even further from pro wrestling.


When Tyson knocked out an opponent did he make sure to do it facing the main camera, or to make sure the camera guy? No, he did his job and the camera/production crew did their best to capture it.

WWE have a great production crew and they can capture everything brilliantly. The don't need to have every wrestler turn to the hard camera for their finisher.

Wrestling should feel real and spontaneous. It's fake enough as it is. Big Show had two men in the chokeslam position. In kayfabe, that's difficult enough as it is! But no, rather than trying to hit the move asap, he makes sure to turn them for seemingly no reason (we know the reason). It's lame and unrealistic.

The wrestlers, in kayfabe, are trying to win a match. Not trying to make sure the move is facing the hard camera so it can be used in replays later.

I don't remember Austin catching Undertaker with the Stunner out of nowhere in the attitude era, but making sure they were straight on in front of the camera in the centre of the ring... but maybe I've got rose tinted glasses and its always been like that.