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Post by Red Impact on Sept 30, 2014 17:43:25 GMT -5
The drop from great coach to good coach requires more than a loss though, or even a bad year. This is a team that's consistently been among the AFC elite, and history shows that it takes more than a great roster to have that level of sustained success. Just like being a great coach requires more than fancy on-field maneuvers. It also requires leadership. His petty tendencies to bench people for no particular reason, overwork good players (i.e. Edelman) and (allegedly) discourage having players who are good enough to ask for serious money are all kind of odd. To me, it sounds like the dude runs his team less like a football club and more like a mercenary army. And it shows. It's not just that they didn't play well last night. They looked unmotivated. Like, the looks on their faces, all game long, were unmotivated, even before the Chiefs ran away with it. That team didn't even look like they cared that they lost. Literally every team has had games like this. So does hat mean that there have never been any good coach in any sport if the team doesn't wake up for one regular season game? No one is saying they're as good as they used to be, quite the opposite, they've been a bad team so far this year. But to say a coach is a bad because his team overwhelmed in one game, or even one season, is to say that there has never, ever been a good coach.
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andrew8798
FANatic
on 24/7 this month
Posts: 106,081
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Post by andrew8798 on Sept 30, 2014 17:44:53 GMT -5
Giants released WR Mario Manningham with an injury settlement.
Chiefs placed RB Joe McKnight on injured reserve with a ruptured Achilles', ending his season.
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kevin
El Dandy
Posts: 7,501
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Post by kevin on Sept 30, 2014 17:52:59 GMT -5
Giants released WR Mario Manningham with an injury settlement. Chiefs placed RB Joe McKnight on injured reserve with a ruptured Achilles', ending his season. That is a shame about McKnight he was really turning into a good player. I hope he can come back from this.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,353
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Sept 30, 2014 17:57:45 GMT -5
Hey Gruden that's not asking for too much. Problem with that is if they got a franchise QB they don't need a new coach. You never know. The Colts might have needed a new coach if Pagano's health continued to be an issue. Gruden would have needed to call his doctor had that job became open because he would have had an erection for more than 4 hours upon hearing the news.
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 16,883
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Post by BRV on Sept 30, 2014 18:26:51 GMT -5
It's time to get really real about the Patriots problems. And these aren't just problems you fix with a band-aid and a kiss on the boo-boo. These are deep-rooted, systemic problems that do not appear to be imminently resolvable.
Robert Kraft, for all the good he's done - building a multi-million dollar, state-of-the-art stadium without a dime of taxpayer money; constructing a sprawling, outdoor mall with shops, restaurants, bars, a movie theater, a team Hall of Fame (again, without asking taxpayers for a cent); rescuing the team from being moved to St. Louis; building the franchise into a model of consistency in the early 2000s - has inexplicably settled into becoming a miser. The Patriots are nearly $15 million under the salary cap, but don't tell that to team President Jonathan Kraft, who will remind you of obscure roster bonuses that, if reached, would have the Patriots closer to $4 million under the cap.
Kraft's penny-pinching ways started years ago, when he and Logan Mankins got into a staring contest, and Mankins eventually won, but not before he basically called Kraft a liar. But a lot of Kraft's lack of enthusiasm to spend can be directly attributed to...
Bill Belichick thinking he's still miles ahead of the curve and the smartest guy in the room. When the Patriots won Super Bowl XXXVI, they did it on the backs of experienced veterans whom Belichick thought he could squeeze the last ounce of talent out of. Antowain Smith, David Patten, Bobby Hamilton, Anthony Pleasant, Bryan Cox, Larry Izzo, Roman Phifer, Otis Smith...each of these players were on the back nine of their careers, and Belichick was able to get one more season out of them. But something happened, right around the time Scott Pioli left for Kansas City and Belichick was left as master and commander. No longer were the Patriots signing veterans and trying to replicate the success of 2001; now the team was cutting these veterans in training camp and replacing them with undrafted free agents and late-round scrap-heap players who provided "value". And in Bill Belichick's New England "value" trumps all. Even "talent". There's a reason why the Patriots signed Brandon LaFell instead of any of the myriad options at receiver who were so obviously better than LaFell: because he provides four-down value. He's not very good at receiving, blocking, or defending kick-offs, but he can at least do it all. Belichick would rather have a player who is OK at three things over a guy who is great at one thing but not very good at the other two. And in the past few years, that has failed them.
Tom Brady is not going to last forever. Sadly, that realization came right around the 2006 season when the Patriots lacked a quality receiver for Brady to trust in the AFC Championship Game against the Colts, which led to a loss in that game. Because the franchise decided that Deion Branch wasn't worth the money, and his talent could be replicated by a mish-mash of Reche Caldwell, Jabar Gaffney, and Doug Gabriel. And since 2007, how many seasons can we truly say the franchise did everything in its power to give Brady the best surrounding cast possible? I can think of three: 2007, 2011, and 2012. Two of those years, they advanced to the Super Bowl. In 2008, 2009, 2010, 2013, and 2014, they have left wins on the field because they'd rather win at the negotiation table.
And on Brady, I hope Patriots fans are ready for the ugly pissing contest that's coming next spring, because it is absolutely inevitable. Brady is visibly fed up, and you can't blame him. And he's going to have a down year (by his standards) and the Belichick/Kraft duo will think his tank's run empty, and they'll shop him. Also, he's got a contract dispute rearing its ugly head, and as we've learned from Mankins, Asante Samuel, and Wes Welker, if you dare to question your contract, you are a dead man walking. This is Tom Brady's last season in New England. I can assure that. The Patriots front office is ready to move on, they just aren't ready for the inevitable colossal s***storm that's coming when they make the move. Fans are going to be enraged. And that won't hurt Kraft's bottom line, but a 6-10 or 5-11 season with a not-ready Jimmy Garoppolo under center will.
Tommy Kelly put it perfectly in an article posted to the Arizona Cardinals website Monday: "Are we worried about money here? Or are we worried about winning?" The answer, sadly, is all too obvious.
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andrew8798
FANatic
on 24/7 this month
Posts: 106,081
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Post by andrew8798 on Sept 30, 2014 19:39:07 GMT -5
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Sept 30, 2014 20:26:27 GMT -5
It seems these people come out of the woodworks only when the Patriots lose and are silent when they win. Look, teams have bad games, which considering the week we had, I thought you would see that. Bill Belicheck has leadership which is why those players will follow him to hell and back. I really don't think I have to say much here, much like I don't have to say much to the guys who keep saying that the Patriots can't win without cheating, IGNORING the fact that they have been to the biggest game twice after that and the fact that they almost are ALWAYS in the AFC Championship Game. "these people?" I've criticized the Patriots about this before. It doesn't mean that they're a bad team or a weak team but they have been coasting on past accomplishments for a while. They SHOULD be able to go to the AFC championship game. They have a moderately talented team with an excellent quarterback, and previously had a strong offensive line. That automatically puts them above most teams they play against, all other things be damned. But they lack a winning state of mind to really put away teams like they used to be able to do on a weekly basis. They are not the same team that they used to be. You really don't have any idea how hard that is in and of itself.
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Renslayer
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
every time i come around your city...
Posts: 16,536
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Post by Renslayer on Sept 30, 2014 20:32:40 GMT -5
"Why y'all can't tell me any good news for a change? Shit!" - Goodell
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Post by bluemeii on Sept 30, 2014 21:38:59 GMT -5
Seriously though, unless the NFL specifically told a player "nope, these concussions will never affect you later in life" I don't know how you can hold the whole league liable. I understand the PR side of things, but there's gotta be some kind of personal responsibility on this.
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andrew8798
FANatic
on 24/7 this month
Posts: 106,081
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Post by andrew8798 on Sept 30, 2014 21:42:14 GMT -5
Raiders Owner
Davis insisted the team's opening is an attractive one, bragging about salary-cap space and "some players
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Post by Red Impact on Sept 30, 2014 21:44:13 GMT -5
Seriously though, unless the NFL specifically told a player "nope, these concussions will never affect you later in life" I don't know how you can hold the whole league liable. I understand the PR side of things, but there's gotta be some kind of personal responsibility on this. The NFL spent years fighting the notion and suppressing research to a ridiculous degree. I don't know how you can't hold the whole league liable for the older players not knowing at this point. When do they begin to bear the responsibility for setting research on brain injuries back for their own PR?
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Post by bluemeii on Sept 30, 2014 22:08:22 GMT -5
Seriously though, unless the NFL specifically told a player "nope, these concussions will never affect you later in life" I don't know how you can hold the whole league liable. I understand the PR side of things, but there's gotta be some kind of personal responsibility on this. The NFL spent years fighting the notion and suppressing research to a ridiculous degree. I don't know how you can't hold the whole league liable for the older players not knowing at this point. If you are just talking about the guys from before the reports in the 90s came out about "football maybe equals brain damage", ok I'll agree with that. They helped build the league they should be getting something. The ones from the mid 90s on, the ones that knew of the risks due to the independent reports. Nah, those were grown men that knew better.
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Post by thetower52 on Sept 30, 2014 23:04:20 GMT -5
Raiders Owner Davis insisted the team's opening is an attractive one, bragging about salary-cap space and "some players Not even raider fans believe that
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Post by Red Impact on Sept 30, 2014 23:08:25 GMT -5
The NFL spent years fighting the notion and suppressing research to a ridiculous degree. I don't know how you can't hold the whole league liable for the older players not knowing at this point. If you are just talking about the guys from before the reports in the 90s came out about "football maybe equals brain damage", ok I'll agree with that. They helped build the league they should be getting something. The ones from the mid 90s on, the ones that knew of the risks due to the independent reports. Nah, those were grown men that knew better. The existence of reports does not mean the information was widespread or well-publicized, and the NFL is the reason why. They've done everything in their power even recently to prevent the news from getting out there, and athletes aren't typically the type of people to scour medical journals and wade through the contradictory information funded by the NFL to try to discredit those independent reports. They're a big reason why these risks weren't common knowledge, and even up until recently they've still worked to suppress the knowledge (just look at ESPN pulling out of the League of Denial documentary, they know where they get their money). It's not so black and white as this grown men line, the NFL deserves much more of the blame than that. When you have the league actively manipulating medical journals and trying to wreck the careers of scientists working in that area, then they can't play the "grown men" card and wipe their hands clean of it. Chris Nowinski wasn't even beginning to do his research on it until after he left wrestling in 2007.
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bob
Salacious Crumb
The "other" Bob. FOC COURSE!
started the Madness Wars, Proudly the #1 Nana Hater on FAN
Posts: 78,273
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Post by bob on Oct 1, 2014 7:49:47 GMT -5
Terrence West or Isiah Crowell in fantasy?
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,279
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Post by Push R Truth on Oct 1, 2014 10:32:16 GMT -5
Just because it should probably be posted every month or two so future generations won't forget: You're welcome.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2014 11:58:45 GMT -5
My problem with the Patriots is that there isn't any solid contingency plan on replacing Tom Brady. The end is near (or maybe, the end is here) for his career, and if they want to remain competitive, they need to prioritize.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2014 12:59:52 GMT -5
It also requires leadership. His petty tendencies to bench people for no particular reason, overwork good players (i.e. Edelman) and (allegedly) discourage having players who are good enough to ask for serious money are all kind of odd. To me, it sounds like the dude runs his team less like a football club and more like a mercenary army. And it shows. It's not just that they didn't play well last night. They looked unmotivated. Like, the looks on their faces, all game long, were unmotivated, even before the Chiefs ran away with it. That team didn't even look like they cared that they lost. Literally every team has had games like this. So does hat mean that there have never been any good coach in any sport if the team doesn't wake up for one regular season game? No one is saying they're as good as they used to be, quite the opposite, they've been a bad team so far this year. But to say a coach is a bad because his team overwhelmed in one game, or even one season, is to say that there has never, ever been a good coach. I didn't say Belichick isn't a good coach, but he is in no way as good as he fancies himself. He is a good coach, but not a great coach. Tactically, he's sound. His performance against Kansas City was bad, but usually that's not an issue. However, he has serious strategic shortcomings. The Patriots could easily be a great team right now if he and Bob Kraft did a better job building and managing a comprehensive roster. Just by virtue of having Tom Brady, they're dangerous, but years of mismanagement have finally crept up on them. Who does Brady have to throw to? Who's protecting him? What in the world is the defense made of? These are major problems and a truly great coach would not allow a great team like the Patriots of half a decade ago to slip as far as it has. "these people?" I've criticized the Patriots about this before. It doesn't mean that they're a bad team or a weak team but they have been coasting on past accomplishments for a while. They SHOULD be able to go to the AFC championship game. They have a moderately talented team with an excellent quarterback, and previously had a strong offensive line. That automatically puts them above most teams they play against, all other things be damned. But they lack a winning state of mind to really put away teams like they used to be able to do on a weekly basis. They are not the same team that they used to be. You really don't have any idea how hard that is in and of itself. It's not hard if you have a good offense (i.e: a good quarterback). The past ten years, teams with the best quarterbacks are frequent playoff contenders. In that grab bag of quarterback-heavy teams, it's not improbable for any of them (even the Patriots) to make repeated appearances. Saints, Packers, Patriots, Colts, Steelers, Ravens, Giants, and so on. It's especially not that hard when you have one of the best within that group.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,482
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Oct 1, 2014 13:04:46 GMT -5
My problem with the Patriots is that there isn't any solid contingency plan on replacing Tom Brady. The end is near (or maybe, the end is here) for his career, and if they want to remain competitive, they need to prioritize. I think they soldily think that Garoppolo could be that guy
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Oct 1, 2014 14:23:35 GMT -5
Okay, I've got to laugh at Chiefs fan pounding their chest, talking shit on Seattle, and bragging about how Arrowhead is now the record holder for loudest stadium. I despise the Seahawks (and Chiefs), but you shouldn't be bragging about that, and talking shit on the current Super Bowl champions.
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