Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,349
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Sept 23, 2014 2:34:15 GMT -5
Shawn not remembering something that happened in the 90's isn't surprising. Drugs have that effect on people. More to the point, why would anyone remember anything that happened in the Gorilla position when they are in the middle of the ring? He could not possibly witness what happened there at that moment in order to confirm or deny anything. |
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Sept 23, 2014 2:39:22 GMT -5
The thing I STILL don't understand about this urban legend or whatever is like are you telling me that Shawn Michaels was so full of himself that the day of WrestleMania, despite the fact that he had a severe back injury and wouldn't be able to wrestle for a long time after this match was going to refuse to put over the guy who it made most logical sense to put over? Like what exactly would he do, just refuse to lose to him because he should still be champion despite being injured? All Vince has to do is tell him to f*** off and sit his injured ass on the shelf since he'd be no use to WCW while hurt anyway
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Sept 23, 2014 3:07:08 GMT -5
The thing I STILL don't understand about this urban legend or whatever is like are you telling me that Shawn Michaels was so full of himself that the day of WrestleMania, despite the fact that he had a severe back injury and wouldn't be able to wrestle for a long time after this match was going to refuse to put over the guy who it made most logical sense to put over? Like what exactly would he do, just refuse to lose to him because he should still be champion despite being injured? All Vince has to do is tell him to f*** off and sit his injured ass on the shelf since he'd be no use to WCW while hurt anyway That's exactly what people are telling you. Michaels always politicked his way out of dropping titles. |
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Sept 23, 2014 3:14:22 GMT -5
The thing I STILL don't understand about this urban legend or whatever is like are you telling me that Shawn Michaels was so full of himself that the day of WrestleMania, despite the fact that he had a severe back injury and wouldn't be able to wrestle for a long time after this match was going to refuse to put over the guy who it made most logical sense to put over? Like what exactly would he do, just refuse to lose to him because he should still be champion despite being injured? All Vince has to do is tell him to f*** off and sit his injured ass on the shelf since he'd be no use to WCW while hurt anyway That's exactly what people are telling you. Michaels always politicked his way out of dropping titles. Yeah but there comes a point where it's like "do you think he honestly took it THIS far?" Like at least in the past he could say "I'm the face of the company" but he's f***ing hurt in this scenario, what else COULD he do? That's why I have a hard time believing that he refused to job. Maybe Taker warned him just in case or Michaels wasn't happy about it or something, but him saying he wouldn't do it is too out of reality for me |
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Post by pepsitwist on Sept 23, 2014 3:46:40 GMT -5
Subtext: Had Michaels not jobbed that night, I'd have beat the crap out of him.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417 
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Post by Boo! on Sept 23, 2014 5:18:44 GMT -5
No shit, Shawn says everything from 1992-1998 didn't happen or he doesn't recall because he was too f***ing out of it to remember shit. Like so  this is my major problem with 'reformed' Shawn Michaels. He seems to want to be seen to take responsibility and apologise for everything in a general, vague sense but anything specific? Nope don't recall that. He does it a lot. It's a subtle way of trying to undermine criticism by casting doubt as to other people's events. "I'm a reformed character!" -so do you regret doing this? "Uh, I don't recall, but if I did I apologise!" Yeah, sure you don't remember, Shawn |
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Sept 23, 2014 5:25:26 GMT -5
That's exactly what people are telling you. Michaels always politicked his way out of dropping titles. Yeah but there comes a point where it's like "do you think he honestly took it THIS far?" Like at least in the past he could say "I'm the face of the company" but he's f***ing hurt in this scenario, what else COULD he do? That's why I have a hard time believing that he refused to job. Maybe Taker warned him just in case or Michaels wasn't happy about it or something, but him saying he wouldn't do it is too out of reality for me Austin's eluded to it on HBK's documentary by saying "Shawn didn't really want to drop that title to anybody.", hell Triple H said on one of his DVDs that his memory of Wrestlemania 14 is tainted because his job was the make sure Shawn showed up and did his job. At that same event Shawn kicked the door open during the Tyson Austin press conference, because he wasn't the focus. He "lost his smile" the year before and shortly after that was jumping around on his leg perfectly fine. Of course HBK said this was to make people mad, but that he was really hurt. |
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Post by Piccolo on Sept 23, 2014 6:09:47 GMT -5
Shawn not remembering something that happened in the 90's isn't surprising. Drugs have that effect on people. More to the point, why would anyone remember anything that happened in the Gorilla position when they are in the middle of the ring? He could not possibly witness what happened there at that moment in order to confirm or deny anything. Yup. Taker was ready to step in, but he didn't end up needing to. That being the case, it's pointless to ask Shawn about it, because he wouldn't know... only someone who was back there with Taker would've seen that he was doing that. |
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,708 
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Post by nisidhe on Sept 23, 2014 7:20:14 GMT -5
In some ways, I'm glad that Shawn's not around all that often anymore - it's not exactly a treat to see him (the way that it's a treat to see, say, the Rock or Austin or even Hogan), and I suspect that, with every appearance, he still generates a lot of talk about how he was during the 1990s. He remains, for example, the wrestler with the most title losses taking place outside a wrestling ring (through being stripped, forfeitures, etc.) in modern wrestling history. For some reason, he was allowed to get away with this - Vince's protection of Michaels was on par with Princess Margaret's fling with Roddy Llewellyn.
I think, however, the fling ended when Shawn's antics were threatening Vince's WrestleMania vision. Vince was willing to let Shawn have his way with just about anything else, but was not prepared to let months of creative preparation go down the tubes on the whim of one wrestler. The minute it seemed as though Shawn was going to play that game, Vince might have asked Undertaker for a favour and 'Taker, being an old-school guy and a friend of Bret Hart's, was likely all too happy to oblige.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Sept 23, 2014 7:30:25 GMT -5
That's exactly what people are telling you. Michaels always politicked his way out of dropping titles. Yeah but there comes a point where it's like "do you think he honestly took it THIS far?" Like at least in the past he could say "I'm the face of the company" but he's f***ing hurt in this scenario, what else COULD he do? That's why I have a hard time believing that he refused to job. Maybe Taker warned him just in case or Michaels wasn't happy about it or something, but him saying he wouldn't do it is too out of reality for me I doubt many backstage genuinely believed Shawn was injured, given how he'd faked injury time and time again to get out of jobbing when it was the best thing for the company, people there for any length of time would have seen long term booking plans dumped because Shawn didn't fancy losing to anyone, often deciding this on the night of the event, see the European Title win over Bulldog. There were never any real repercussions for Shawn, there was never any talk of a demotion or keeping him away from the belts, his behaviour was a problem before he got near the world title yet they still put it on him. Come Wrestlemania 14, he must have thought he was untouchable, he'd taken a midcard belt from someone despite the fact it was to be part of a big push into Europe, just to hand it to his buddy, his long term political enemy had been shoved out the door and screwed over on his way out, leaving under a cloud so huge it seemed like he'd never return, they kept the belt on him despite his drawing power being questionable, despite his behaviour getting harder and harder to deal with and his addictions becoming a real problem so there was a real risk of Shawn doing something stupid to forfeit the belt rather than do what was necessary for the good of the company, starting Austin off with a whimper rather than the big win he required. |
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Post by chazzbusby on Sept 23, 2014 7:38:15 GMT -5
You know all these years I thought Tyson just counted fast out of excitement/lack of training.
Maybe Vince really wasn't sure that Michaels would do business and having Tyson fast count the finish was an insurance policy.
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Post by Muskrat on Sept 23, 2014 7:54:41 GMT -5
That's exactly what people are telling you. Michaels always politicked his way out of dropping titles. Yeah but there comes a point where it's like "do you think he honestly took it THIS far?" Like at least in the past he could say "I'm the face of the company" but he's f***ing hurt in this scenario, what else COULD he do? That's why I have a hard time believing that he refused to job. Maybe Taker warned him just in case or Michaels wasn't happy about it or something, but him saying he wouldn't do it is too out of reality for me Listen to anyone talk about HBK in 98, and they'll tell you Shawn was in a really, really bad place mentally at this point. He had some serious drug issues, he was going through a tonne of personal issues, and he wasn't making smart or rational decisions. I don't doubt for a second that he gave serious consideration to not showing up, or not doing business properly just because he didn't feel like it that day. Hell, he no sold the Tyson punch just to be a douche. There's no other possible reason he pulled that shit |
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StuntGranny®
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Not Actually a Granny
Posts: 16,099
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Post by StuntGranny® on Sept 23, 2014 10:24:01 GMT -5
Yeah, I think Shawn's full of shit. He's not the perfect, spotless little angel now that he likes to perceive himself to be. His match with Hogan showed he's still the unprofessional asshole he's been for most of his career.
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Post by Ganon83 on Sept 23, 2014 10:40:07 GMT -5
Yeah, I think Shawn's full of shit. He's not the perfect, spotless little angel now that he likes to perceive himself to be. His match with Hogan showed he's still the unprofessional asshole he's been for most of his career. I don't really blame him for the Hogan thing. The plan was for Hogan to win at SummerSlam than return the favor the next month. At the 11th hour Hogan said he wasn't going to job. Michaels still had countless matches with the company. Hogan had a midcard match with Orton a year later and of course went over. There's no reason Hogan didn't give the win back. |
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JCBaggee
Hank Scorpio
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Post by JCBaggee on Sept 23, 2014 10:44:29 GMT -5
Much like everything else, this probably has a nugget of truth. 'taker was probably like "Dude, just do the job." and Shawn was like "Fiiiiiiiine"
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Post by Red Impact on Sept 23, 2014 10:48:32 GMT -5
That's exactly what people are telling you. Michaels always politicked his way out of dropping titles. Yeah but there comes a point where it's like "do you think he honestly took it THIS far?" Like at least in the past he could say "I'm the face of the company" but he's f***ing hurt in this scenario, what else COULD he do? That's why I have a hard time believing that he refused to job. Maybe Taker warned him just in case or Michaels wasn't happy about it or something, but him saying he wouldn't do it is too out of reality for me Yes, a reasonable person would think that way, but a lot of people aren't reasonable. The problem is expecting people to be rational when they usually aren't. The depths of the ego of pro athletes (and wrestlers) in particular makes them more susceptible than most to fits of irrationality. |
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StuntGranny®
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Not Actually a Granny
Posts: 16,099
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Post by StuntGranny® on Sept 23, 2014 11:39:13 GMT -5
Yeah, I think Shawn's full of shit. He's not the perfect, spotless little angel now that he likes to perceive himself to be. His match with Hogan showed he's still the unprofessional asshole he's been for most of his career. I don't really blame him for the Hogan thing. The plan was for Hogan to win at SummerSlam than return the favor the next month. At the 11th hour Hogan said he wasn't going to job. Michaels still had countless matches with the company. Hogan had a midcard match with Orton a year later and of course went over. There's no reason Hogan didn't give the win back. Still, Michaels just made himself look like the childish asshole he's always been. Instead of being professional about it and letting history make Hogan look bad, he chose to bounce around like a goofball. |
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Post by Mid-Carder on Sept 23, 2014 11:53:20 GMT -5
Yeah, I think Shawn's full of shit. He's not the perfect, spotless little angel now that he likes to perceive himself to be. His match with Hogan showed he's still the unprofessional asshole he's been for most of his career. I don't really blame him for the Hogan thing. The plan was for Hogan to win at SummerSlam than return the favor the next month. At the 11th hour Hogan said he wasn't going to job. Michaels still had countless matches with the company. Hogan had a midcard match with Orton a year later and of course went over. There's no reason Hogan didn't give the win back. Hogan is Hogan. Shawn should have jobbed, and jobbed happily, knowing Hogan was the draw and the one selling PPVs. I love Shawn, have done since the 90s, but his behaviour that night was a disgrace. Whatever his issues with Hogan, he should never have brought it into the ring The one and only time I met Shawn in 2006, he was nice until he reacted badly to a "you screwed Bret!" |
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Captain2
Don Corleone
Big Daddy Cool
Posts: 1,990
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Post by Captain2 on Sept 23, 2014 12:05:58 GMT -5
Hell, he no sold the Tyson punch just to be a douche. There's no other possible reason he pulled that shit  ? He doesn't exactly look ready to pop back up and keep fighting. |
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Post by Muskrat on Sept 23, 2014 13:55:53 GMT -5
Hell, he no sold the Tyson punch just to be a douche. There's no other possible reason he pulled that shit ? He doesn't exactly look ready to pop back up and keep fighting. The camera zooms in on his face and he starts making weird faces when he's supposed to be unconscious. He looks like a little kid pretending to be asleep when his parents check on him, trying too hard to keep his eyes closed  |
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