|
Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Sept 29, 2014 11:08:28 GMT -5
I get the point in that you can't have them running around like idiots for 20 straight minutes but still its either put them in a rest hold (usually a chinlock) have the other guy struggle out and we either start the comeback or it gets cut off. How about a little creativity in how about instead of having the baby face struggle up that the heel picks up the face and try to do more high impact offense. Like he used the hold to keep the advantage and think what to do next.
|
|
Dat Dude
Dennis Stamp
Wait, what?
Posts: 4,785
|
Post by Dat Dude on Sept 29, 2014 11:17:08 GMT -5
I think it was Jim Ross on a recent podcast addressed the subject, and said that the problem was that the babyface doesn't frantically try to prevent the hold to being locked in like MMA fighters do in actual bouts. Apply a legit chokehold in a fight and that's a rap. So their portrayal of the move is both inaccurate and lazy.
|
|
|
Post by Prince Petty on Sept 29, 2014 11:19:46 GMT -5
That's the sort of thing I'm surprised they never did with Triple H. His gimmick was 'cerebral assassin', which implied he was always thinking and getting ahead of his opponent using his brain. So the idea of him slapping on a rest hold, and the announcers selling it as him catching his breath and deciding what to do next, would have been a good way of reinforcing his smarts.
It could work for some other guys, presented that way.
|
|
Essential1
Hank Scorpio
Sigs/Avatars cannot exceed 1MB
Posts: 6,080
|
Post by Essential1 on Sept 29, 2014 11:21:20 GMT -5
If you're watching with friends it's a good time to take your eyes on the TV and eat/talk shit.
|
|
|
Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Sept 29, 2014 11:21:44 GMT -5
This is why Daniel Bryan is one of the best of all time - he will grind in and make every hold work, even if it's just an abdominal stretch. He never looks like he's resting when he puts a hold on.
|
|
|
Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Sept 29, 2014 11:29:31 GMT -5
This is why Daniel Bryan is one of the best of all time - he will grind in and make every hold work, even if it's just an abdominal stretch. He never looks like he's resting when he puts a hold on. That too. A little work in your time eating move makes it alot more interesting.
|
|
|
Post by chazzbusby on Sept 29, 2014 11:31:38 GMT -5
This is why Daniel Bryan is one of the best of all time - he will grind in and make every hold work, even if it's just an abdominal stretch. He never looks like he's resting when he puts a hold on. He's huge on having every hold, transition etc mean something. On Road Diaries he said he hates it when a guy locks in a headlock and then spins round only to lock in another one. What was the point in releasing it in the first place? I like his attention to detail.
|
|
|
Post by Kayfabe FAN don't want none on Sept 29, 2014 11:45:11 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 11:47:50 GMT -5
I'd rather see a heel take a powder and jaw jack with the fans than do a rest hold.
Or even talk smack while applying the rest hold to the guy. Usually they just sit there.
|
|
Hypnosis
T
Posts: 97,421
Member is Online
|
Post by Hypnosis on Sept 29, 2014 11:57:22 GMT -5
I'd rather see a heel take a powder and jaw jack with the fans than do a rest hold. Or even talk smack while applying the rest hold to the guy. Usually they just sit there. Orton during a headlock:"I've had more wives than all of you!"
|
|
PKO
King Koopa
Posts: 12,602
|
Post by PKO on Sept 29, 2014 12:00:37 GMT -5
I hate this sequence: •Heel has rest hold on. •Face begins to break hold, heel stops that, keeps hold on. •Face begins to break it again...and does! •Heel knocks face down and continues being in control.
I get that their thinking is it'll really get the fans into the comeback later on in the match, but so often they're dead after that spot. That's the comeback spot. That's the time to turn the match around. Fans are ready for it by that point, so just give it to them then.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 12:26:50 GMT -5
It's a part of wrestling. I don't agree at all with JR, that they should act like it's some crazy MMA submission and desperately try to flail out of the devastating chinlock. It's not a submission hold. It's a way for the wrestler to conserve energy, kayfabe or no, while continuing to lean on his opponent and sap their strength. It's not supposed to be exciting, it's supposed to be a lull in the action. Fans now have less patience and the matches are so spot-heavy that everyone's just waiting for the last half of the match where all the cool stuff happens.
The reason it sucks now is that WWE's style is so formulaic. Formula is also a part of wrestling, but they've gotten way lazier about mixing up said formula, I guess because "everyone knows it's fake so who cares" or some other defeatist garbage.
What they could do it make it more of a heel thing, like get your feet on the ropes to apply more pressure, then the ref would look and he'd get down, etc. Cesaro pulled this with an abdominal stretch on Smackdown, I was very happy.
|
|
|
Post by Baby, it’s Jes outside on Sept 29, 2014 14:13:48 GMT -5
Rest holds give me a chance to check ESPN for scores
|
|
Woo
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,279
|
Post by Woo on Sept 29, 2014 14:58:10 GMT -5
There are so many other ways of conserving energy. As mentioned above they can leave the ring and argue with the fans like they used to. They could argue with the ref, they could apply a submission move instead and save energy that way. Or perhaps just selling the moves for longer.
|
|
|
Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 29, 2014 15:18:10 GMT -5
Some guys use it without psychology like if they gas up. I wish people would try to look like it's hurting them.
Kinda off topic but Luke Harper once put the Necro Butcher on a bearhug on roh of all places, the crowd booed them for the entire match.
|
|
|
Post by Hit Girl on Sept 29, 2014 15:24:18 GMT -5
The trick is to make a rest hold look like you're not taking a break.
Have the guy struggle, while the other guy trash talks.
|
|
543Y2J
Patti Mayonnaise
Seventh level .gif Master
Posts: 38,794
|
Post by 543Y2J on Sept 29, 2014 15:34:38 GMT -5
*Ortonsadfacejpeg*
|
|
Bad Moon
Unicron
for reasons known only to the goblins that live in my brain
Posts: 3,091
|
Post by Bad Moon on Sept 29, 2014 16:12:00 GMT -5
I think it was Jim Ross on a recent podcast addressed the subject, and said that the problem was that the babyface doesn't frantically try to prevent the hold to being locked in like MMA fighters do in actual bouts. Apply a legit chokehold in a fight and that's a rap. So their portrayal of the move is both inaccurate and lazy. Or as another grumpy old southern man named Jim put it, when you've got a hold on that's not time to rest, that's time to work! One of the rare things I actually agree with Corny on these days.
|
|
Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
|
Post by Boo! on Sept 29, 2014 16:15:15 GMT -5
I dont get resthold hate. It's part of wrestling and has been for years. If a heel has a face in a resthold and the crowd are getting annoyed - that's the point!
It's like going to a music concert and booing every bit of every song that isn't the chorus. Wrestling matches should have light and dark, slow and fast, ups and downs. If you just want speed, action and excitement stay at home and play a ******* video game.
Sorry but I already resent that so much of the product now has to be aimed at a fidgety goldfish with attention deficit disorder without the basic lay out of matches getting ruined already.
"A sleeper hold? BOOOO!!! This isn't exciting. Why am I not on the edge of my seat? Where's the explosion? I can't watch this movie, there's no helicopter crash. I've been here 10 seconds and nothing has caught fire!!!"
|
|
Kaysie
AC Slater
.•°¤*(¯`★´¯)*¤° ƙą¥ ʍǿȡƹ °¤*(¯´★`¯)*¤°•.
Posts: 240
|
Post by Kaysie on Sept 29, 2014 16:27:55 GMT -5
But without them we'd miss actual moves during adverts But really, I suppose it can get a bit repetitive when it's always the same hold. Would it really hurt them to mix it up a bit or something? But I also see the point, whilst matches with constant spots can be exciting, the slower parts and the faster parts combine into telling much more of a story in my opinion. I'm pretty sure that being put in a chinlock would at least affect me afterwards, so logically I don't see why it is a bad thing. And the person on offense would probably need a "rest" at some point even if it were a real fight.
|
|