SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Sept 30, 2014 8:39:07 GMT -5
McMahon didn't try to murder Austin by crushing his head with cinderblocks. He only tried to force him to conform by firing him. So Bang 3:16 says Goodbye. You'll notice in the same vein, Undertaker, the guy who tried to actually eviscerate Austin while he was alive and conscious on a mortuary table didn't receive any hilarious hijinks. Austin just wanted straight up physical revenge. That's the difference here and the point that some can't seem to fathom here. In real life you don't play pranks for the sake of laughter on dudes who've tried to kill you. It's stupid.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 8:48:48 GMT -5
McMahon didn't try to murder Austin by crushing his head with cinderblocks. He only tried to force him to conform by firing him. So Bang 3:16 says Goodbye. You'll notice in the same vein, Undertaker, the guy who tried to actually eviscerate Austin while he was alive and conscious on a mortuary table didn't receive any hilarious hijinks. Austin just wanted straight up physical revenge. That's the difference here and the point that some can't seem to fathom here. In real life you don't play pranks for the sake of laughter on dudes who've tried to kill you. It's stupid. To be fair, Ambrose had physical confrontation with Seth already twice since his return by then, hadn't he (possibly just once, but my brain is going between the two), and once again at the end of the same show. The other month Ambrose pulled a jokey "what? It's for charity" family PG sitcom line before brawling with Rollins backstage and it didn't feel too out of character. The actual Nickelodeon green smudge may be a bit much, but honestly I can see Ambrose being the tool who fills a balloon with shit/mess when he can't attack Rollins knowing full well the Authority want the briefcase back. Plus given Ambrose has sometimes been in arenas (commentary saying he's been seen in the venue earlier etc) but waited to attack Seth during cash ins or other things, you can tie that into the "willing to make people worry/feel targeted when not being physically assaulted" deal. It is goofy but I think in this case it's not quite as inconsistent as it seems once you look back on the last few months. Ambrose hasn't suffered for it or lost popularity at any other point (jumping out of ludicrous boxes meaning he'd waited over 2 hours for Seth to walk by/doing the ice bucket gag etc) so...if it just happens once a month in circumstances which aren't that odd I'd say it's okay. Not something that should be done regularly though of course, but Ambrose putting some junk inside a briefcase he knew the Authority would get back isn't that out of character.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Sept 30, 2014 8:50:46 GMT -5
Was Bryan a "practical joker" during his run at the top this past year? I don't think so. I don't know. He was too busy running in terror with his wife from Kane to bust out his best material. Yeah the crowd really turned on Dean for that one Irrelevant. It was still out of character. Not everything needs to be serious 24/7. You're taking it WAY too hard to heart. Dean's character is a psychopath. Not a prankster who laughs at sight gags. Rollins legit tried to murder him. That's the story and grudge. If someone tried to crush my skull, especially a guy I considered a brother once, I wouldn't rig say a pie-launcher to hit him in the face for the lulz amidst my revenge. I'd just kill him. Well apparently his character is both. You just don't like one thing he did.
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4real
Wade Wilson
Posts: 27,399
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Post by 4real on Sept 30, 2014 9:04:51 GMT -5
I loved this personally. Remember this was the same guy who hid inside a giant present and under a table to get to Rollins. Yes I get he wants revenge and eventually it will happen but not everything has to be so serious. Remember when Dean filled the briefcase with Coke and popcorn?
Honestly I'm tired of this "But it was out of character!" argument. People do and talk about different stuff constantly that you wouldn't think they would be interested or into and do stuff that would surprise you.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Sept 30, 2014 9:07:54 GMT -5
I don't see Ambrose as a joker. They regularly make mention of how he's a few cent short of a Network subscription. I think at the moment his persona is a guy who is unstable but doesn't give a crap. Sometimes he'll do silly stuff like the green gunk, other times he'll flip out and just throw himself in harms way just for the thrill of it.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Sept 30, 2014 9:15:02 GMT -5
I don't know. He was too busy running in terror with his wife from Kane to bust out his best material. Irrelevant. It was still out of character. Dean's character is a psychopath. Not a prankster who laughs at sight gags. Rollins legit tried to murder him. That's the story and grudge. If someone tried to crush my skull, especially a guy I considered a brother once, I wouldn't rig say a pie-launcher to hit him in the face for the lulz amidst my revenge. I'd just kill him. Well apparently his character is both. You just don't like one thing he did. Apparently his character is both? Why, because they just pulled that out of their ass? And what I like is irrelevant. If there's any consolation, I at least thought Dean delivered his lines well. That said, a character should be consistent. Jake Roberts was always the way he was. He didn't suddenly start telling jokes. Same with other dark characters. People are making excuses for poor writing and consistency here. The enjoyment of it is subjective. I never said it sucked. But it IS inconsistent. And if WWE is just going to write "and now he's a prankster!" that's not an indictment on me, but them. It's not how stories are told. Exposition is needed to get you to a change. You can't just say "and now he's like this!" That's how a child writes.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Sept 30, 2014 9:22:13 GMT -5
I wouldn't care for shenanigans if they weren't so lame most of the time.
A blood feud that uses the "I don't know" gag from You Can't Do That On Television is just dumb in its incongruity.
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Jiren
Patti Mayonnaise
Hearts Bayformers
Posts: 35,163
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Post by Jiren on Sept 30, 2014 9:22:27 GMT -5
Instead of the green paint he should have put something like a Cobra or Rattlesnake, Much cooler.
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,376
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Post by FinalGwen on Sept 30, 2014 9:23:10 GMT -5
Exactly, which means he's not going to be serious all the time. He's gonna be all over the place. His character has been established as being violently unhinged. Really right from the beginning. That whole case thing was completely out of left field for his character and its recent presentation. His entire recent arc has been about wanting to savagely murder Rollins for his countless sins and betrayals. If he's loading anything into a briefcase, it's poison, not slime. To me, again, this thing, and this thread, comes down to the eternal battle between two groups of devoted wrestling fans. One side prefers the non-thinking, non-question-asking approach, and is all like "Ah, it doesn't matter, it's just wrestling!" While the other, and I fall into this category, are more critical over logic and continuity (since it IS a story) and crave consistency in the storytelling. Its not ever going to be a Nolan movie out there in written presentation, but it'd be nice if they wrote their characters based on the established personas given and shown without deviating from that all of a sudden because some poindexter in creative, trying to win points with Vince, thinks up interchangeable sight gags to make him laugh and spit his steak sandwich all over the board table. Right, so when Seth Rollins is dead after opening the briefcase from poison or a knife or whatever's hidden in there, where does the storyline go from there? Follow Dean Ambrose's exciting adventures in prison every week on Raw with brief interludes for Rollins' crying family? He knew he was going to be forced from the ring eventually and that he wouldn't be able to keep hold of the briefcase indefinitely. So he left one last surprise (whether he did it himself or arranged for someone to do it for him) to make sure that his rival wouldn't be able to be happy or feel accomplished even when he got the case back. There's nothing out of character about that, no lack of continuity. Ambrose likes embarrassing/annoying Rollins and ruining his night. Meanwhile, what happened there pushes Kane and Orton into another match, making them more resentful of Rollins and the Authority, playing into the hands of Ambrose. It all fits.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Sept 30, 2014 9:32:12 GMT -5
His character has been established as being violently unhinged. Really right from the beginning. That whole case thing was completely out of left field for his character and its recent presentation. His entire recent arc has been about wanting to savagely murder Rollins for his countless sins and betrayals. If he's loading anything into a briefcase, it's poison, not slime. To me, again, this thing, and this thread, comes down to the eternal battle between two groups of devoted wrestling fans. One side prefers the non-thinking, non-question-asking approach, and is all like "Ah, it doesn't matter, it's just wrestling!" While the other, and I fall into this category, are more critical over logic and continuity (since it IS a story) and crave consistency in the storytelling. Its not ever going to be a Nolan movie out there in written presentation, but it'd be nice if they wrote their characters based on the established personas given and shown without deviating from that all of a sudden because some poindexter in creative, trying to win points with Vince, thinks up interchangeable sight gags to make him laugh and spit his steak sandwich all over the board table. Right, so when Seth Rollins is dead after opening the briefcase from poison or a knife or whatever's hidden in there, where does the storyline go from there? Follow Dean Ambrose's exciting adventures in prison every week on Raw with brief interludes for Rollins' crying family? LOL, no. I just said that this is the mindset of his character, not that they should do it. You just don't do anything goofy with the case and goo. Hell, just have Dean destroy it and the contract in a woodchipper or something. And then spend the next few weeks having him taking all the new briefcases and disposing of them too until Seth snaps and demands a Cell match or something wherein Dean is banned for life from RAW or something if he loses. I don't know. I just don't think the little kiddish Nickleodeon stuff works for a psychopath character. I don't think his character should be softened or made in the babyface mold. I like the dichotomy of him, Bryan, Reigns and Cena all being unique guys. Bryan's the hard working underdog who deserves to be Champion like Foley. Reigns is the silent bad ass. Cena is whatever the f*** he is on any given week. And Dean is just Dean: an offbeat charming, yet violent sociopath who thinks up ways (amusing to us) to kick the shit out of people we hate.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Sept 30, 2014 9:47:09 GMT -5
I'd really like it if he became a 'free agent'. The board of directors can no longer sanction matches with his involvement due to insurance purposes. Ever Dean Ambrose match takes place with the viewer warning that WWE is not responsible for that they may see, it is unsanctioned, outside the confines of usual WWE rules and his opponent agrees to take part 'at his own risk'. It'll be small thing but I think effective on getting over the 'rebel' personality.
Play it so Ambrose is not even getting paid - he's just there because he loves to fight. (not in a Sheamus way) And of course if he's not strictly speaking an 'employee' it makes him even more difficult to control.
Maybe if he's off for a week: "USA Network executives have refused to sanction a non-licensed performer's appearance on the show..."
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Lila
El Dandy
Slip N Slide World Champion 1997
Posts: 8,905
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Post by Lila on Sept 30, 2014 11:59:59 GMT -5
Exactly, which means he's not going to be serious all the time. He's gonna be all over the place. His character has been established as being violently unhinged. Really right from the beginning. That whole case thing was completely out of left field for his character and its recent presentation. His entire recent arc has been about wanting to savagely murder Rollins for his countless sins and betrayals. If he's loading anything into a briefcase, it's poison, not slime. To me, again, this thing, and this thread, comes down to the eternal battle between two groups of devoted wrestling fans. One side prefers the non-thinking, non-question-asking approach, and is all like "Ah, it doesn't matter, it's just wrestling!" While the other, and I fall into this category, are more critical over logic and continuity (since it IS a story) and crave consistency in the storytelling. Its not ever going to be a Nolan movie out there in written presentation, but it'd be nice if they wrote their characters based on the established personas given and shown without deviating from that all of a sudden because some poindexter in creative, trying to win points with Vince, thinks up interchangeable sight gags to make him laugh and spit his steak sandwich all over the board table. You saying this all like Ambrose's character suddenly has changed or that the storyline has drastically changed over night. It's an one off gag that no one should be taking this hard to heart. He'll be fine in the long run.
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Post by CM Parish on Sept 30, 2014 12:13:03 GMT -5
Dean knows Seth isn't going to get in the ring with him, so why not embarrass him on national television for once after luring him into a false sense of security? He used violence later on.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Sept 30, 2014 12:14:57 GMT -5
Dean knows Seth isn't going to get in the ring with him, so why not embarrass him on national television for once after luring him into a false sense of security? He used violence later on. Nothing better than causing a smug, entitled asshole to make an utter fool of himself in front of a worldwide audience as a measure of some revenge.
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Post by Hit Girl on Sept 30, 2014 15:29:25 GMT -5
It was stupid booking. The last thing Ambrose needs to be is a magical prankster. He gets beaten to a pulp repeatedly, and his response is to teleport from locked rooms into boxes at ringside, and load briefcases with popcorn and slime. The level of childishness in the writing of these shows is ridiculous.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Sept 30, 2014 17:08:04 GMT -5
Well apparently his character is both. You just don't like one thing he did. Apparently his character is both? Why, because they just pulled that out of their ass? And what I like is irrelevant. If there's any consolation, I at least thought Dean delivered his lines well. That said, a character should be consistent. Jake Roberts was always the way he was. He didn't suddenly start telling jokes. Same with other dark characters. People are making excuses for poor writing and consistency here. The enjoyment of it is subjective. I never said it sucked. But it IS inconsistent. And if WWE is just going to write "and now he's a prankster!" that's not an indictment on me, but them. It's not how stories are told. Exposition is needed to get you to a change. You can't just say "and now he's like this!" That's how a child writes. He's not out of character here if you pay attention, at least not in my eyes. He's shown humor before. Didn't he previously steal the briefcase and pour soft drinks and popcorn and I forget what else in it to torment Rollins? How is this inconsistent with that? It's not the exact same thing (which would be bad writing) but it's not some 180-degree about-face of character.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 17:17:07 GMT -5
I thnk the answer lies somewhere between them playing to kids and Vince actually having the humour of an eight year old.
The stunt was a quite goofy for Dean, but he played it as cool as he could. He's painted himself as a largely misanthropic and unstable character that's prone to bouts of, well, anything. It doesn't mean he should bring the pie to the face wakka wakka like guys like John do, but I'll give him a sliming. I just pray they don't continue down this road. THEN I get fed up.
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Juice
El Dandy
Wrong? Oh he can tell ya about being wrong.
I'm the one who raised you from perdition.
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Post by Juice on Sept 30, 2014 19:06:40 GMT -5
Austin, Rock, Foley all had a ton of shenanigans. There's a difference between funny, wrestling-logic shenanigans (Austin and the zamboni, Austin and a bedpan, Foley and Mr. Socko, Foley and the Rock and This Is Your Life, the Rock doing impressions) and goofy, non-wrestling shenanigans like slime and poop and vomit gags (which given the history of professional wrestling seem like they are recent inventions). Austin dressing up like a doctor is no different than when Jimmy Garvin dressed up like a woman to beat up Ric Flair. But try to imagine Magnum TA loading a briefcase with slime to get back at Tully Blanchard... suddenly the gag becomes pretty dumb for a wrestling show. I disagree you've compared apples and oranges
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Sept 30, 2014 19:59:31 GMT -5
Apparently his character is both? Why, because they just pulled that out of their ass? And what I like is irrelevant. If there's any consolation, I at least thought Dean delivered his lines well. That said, a character should be consistent. Jake Roberts was always the way he was. He didn't suddenly start telling jokes. Same with other dark characters. People are making excuses for poor writing and consistency here. The enjoyment of it is subjective. I never said it sucked. But it IS inconsistent. And if WWE is just going to write "and now he's a prankster!" that's not an indictment on me, but them. It's not how stories are told. Exposition is needed to get you to a change. You can't just say "and now he's like this!" That's how a child writes. He's not out of character here if you pay attention, at least not in my eyes. He's shown humor before. Didn't he previously steal the briefcase and pour soft drinks and popcorn and I forget what else in it to torment Rollins? How is this inconsistent with that? It's not the exact same thing (which would be bad writing) but it's not some 180-degree about-face of character. Was this after Seth tried to murder him? That cancels out all hijinks n the realm of realistic storytelling. Once someone tries to kill you, I imagine practical joking is not your top priority.
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Juice
El Dandy
Wrong? Oh he can tell ya about being wrong.
I'm the one who raised you from perdition.
Posts: 8,172
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Post by Juice on Sept 30, 2014 20:04:57 GMT -5
I disagree you've compared apples and oranges I guess we have different understandings of shenanigans, or something.
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