Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Sept 30, 2014 9:12:42 GMT -5
This is all predicated on the idea that John Cena would never get another shot at the WWE title again. That just hit me. Brock is holding the title. Kayfabe and out of it, losing this chance means it's going to be quite a long time before any such chance is presented to him again, now that his rematch clause has been exhausted. The WWE routinely has touted the WWE title as the reason anyone should want to work there, to potentially have a chance to hold it, and, once they hold it, they desire nothing more than to keep hold of it at any cost, including what may be seen as what is right. Austin, who has had any number of violent acts and schemes perpetrated on him by McMahon and Triple H turned to those same people in order to hold onto the belt. Undertaker submitted himself to the control of McMahon for the title, Rock signed over his future to McMahon for his first title run, and Punk kept Heyman at his side to stay on top, holding the belt. Bryan remained in the building a number of times Brie's safety was endangered by Kane due to not wishing to be stripped of the title, putting both of them in jeopardy. The belt is a shining beacon of pride in the WWE, but also a corrupting influence. Being cheated out of the title means a great deal, to anyone from the Hogans and Flairs to the Horowitzes and Lombardis. Cena should want revenge, and it honestly would kind of cheapen the belt for him to "Aw shucks" it off and step aside. "Eh, nope, don't care that much, sorry Cenation, going to go curbstomp the Wyatts some more". That'd be shit writing, and it's inconsistent for us to want the title belt to matter, and then scoff at the idea of someone putting it ahead of someone else's interests. We need to pick one.
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Post by Just call me D.j.m. on Sept 30, 2014 9:15:54 GMT -5
This is all predicated on the idea that John Cena would never get another shot at the WWE title again. That just hit me. Brock is holding the title. Kayfabe and out of it, losing this chance means it's going to be quite a long time before any such chance is presented to him again, now that his rematch clause has been exhausted. The WWE routinely has touted the WWE title as the reason anyone should want to work there, to potentially have a chance to hold it, and, once they hold it, they desire nothing more than to keep hold of it at any cost, including what may be seen as what is right. Austin, who has had any number of violent acts and schemes perpetrated on him by McMahon and Triple H turned to those same people in order to hold onto the belt. Undertaker submitted himself to the control of McMahon for the title, Rock signed over his future to McMahon for his first title run, and Punk kept Heyman at his side to stay on top, holding the belt. The belt is a shining beacon of pride in the WWE, but also a corrupting influence. Being cheated out of the title means a great deal, to anyone from the Hogans and Flairs to the Horowitzes and Lombardis. Cena should want revenge, and it honestly would kind of cheapen the belt for him to "Aw shucks" it off and step aside. "Eh, nope, don't care that much, sorry Cenation, going to go curbstomp the Wyatts some more". That'd be shit writing, and it's inconsistent for us to want the title belt to matter, and then scoff at the idea of someone putting it ahead of someone else's interests. We need to pick one. I think WWE Creative themselves have shown us that the rules of Kayfabe and any all semblance of coherence and sense can be bent, warped and twisted to fit the JAWN CENA narrative. If I'm expected to suspend my disbelief and go with the thought that Cena may never get another shot at Brock Lesnar or never get another title shot, especially after Cena has been God-Tier for the last decade, well....no.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Sept 30, 2014 9:18:12 GMT -5
Cena is as bad now at being written as the focal point/main character of the show as HHH ever was during the Reign of Terror.
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SEAN CARLESS
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Sept 30, 2014 9:20:55 GMT -5
If the WWE title and beating Brock is so important to Cena, why doesn't he, you know, go after Brock & Heyman instead? You know, since Brock is the prize anyway? Completely irrational, stupid backwards booking. And to whoever said that Cena's plight was comparable to Dean's --- come on. That's like saying that a guy who gets his car stolen is equal victim as a guy who was almost murdered in the most savage way possible by his best friend. Not even remotely comparable on any level in any rational universe. Brock wouldn't likely give him a title shot. He'd just laugh it off and tell him to go f*** himself. "Rematch clause is used up, see everyone in a month or 2." This is at least revenge he can get now. Whether or not Dean deserves it more doesn't make a whole lot of difference to his own personal wants. Willing to bet the guy who had his car stolen would still like some manner of compensation, regardless of how many bloodied best friends were presented to them. Doesn't make it right, or fair, but it does make it an easy to follow, readily understood human impulse. True, but what will fighting Rollins accomplish? (outside of possibly goading him into putting the contract on the line?) Couldn't he torment Heyman and attempt to get to Brock the same way he is Rollins? WWE booked themselves into a stupid corner here. Had Cena actually just lost the match at NOC due to Rollins and that's the end of his feud with Brock, it'd have made way more sense. But as it is, he's just spinning his wheels until Brock gets back. If it were real (and that's how it should always be approached psychology-wise) Cena's main goal is to be Champion. So, use your wits and muscle to force that.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Sept 30, 2014 9:21:47 GMT -5
Brock is holding the title. Kayfabe and out of it, losing this chance means it's going to be quite a long time before any such chance is presented to him again, now that his rematch clause has been exhausted. The WWE routinely has touted the WWE title as the reason anyone should want to work there, to potentially have a chance to hold it, and, once they hold it, they desire nothing more than to keep hold of it at any cost, including what may be seen as what is right. Austin, who has had any number of violent acts and schemes perpetrated on him by McMahon and Triple H turned to those same people in order to hold onto the belt. Undertaker submitted himself to the control of McMahon for the title, Rock signed over his future to McMahon for his first title run, and Punk kept Heyman at his side to stay on top, holding the belt. The belt is a shining beacon of pride in the WWE, but also a corrupting influence. Being cheated out of the title means a great deal, to anyone from the Hogans and Flairs to the Horowitzes and Lombardis. Cena should want revenge, and it honestly would kind of cheapen the belt for him to "Aw shucks" it off and step aside. "Eh, nope, don't care that much, sorry Cenation, going to go curbstomp the Wyatts some more". That'd be shit writing, and it's inconsistent for us to want the title belt to matter, and then scoff at the idea of someone putting it ahead of someone else's interests. We need to pick one. I think WWE Creative themselves have shown us that the rules of Kayfabe and any all semblance of coherence and sense can be bent, warped and twisted to fit the JAWN CENA narrative. If I'm expected to suspend my disbelief and go with the thought that Cena may never get another shot at Brock Lesnar or never get another title shot, especially after Cena has been God-Tier for the last decade, well....no. No one's asking you to think he'd never get one again. That'd be daft. What they are asking you to think is that he should be pissed that his chance got shit on. By that very same logic, Dean shouldn't mind if Cena gets Seth. After all, can't he just wait and get his shot later?
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Sept 30, 2014 9:23:46 GMT -5
Brock wouldn't likely give him a title shot. He'd just laugh it off and tell him to go f*** himself. "Rematch clause is used up, see everyone in a month or 2." This is at least revenge he can get now. Whether or not Dean deserves it more doesn't make a whole lot of difference to his own personal wants. Willing to bet the guy who had his car stolen would still like some manner of compensation, regardless of how many bloodied best friends were presented to them. Doesn't make it right, or fair, but it does make it an easy to follow, readily understood human impulse. True, but what will fighting Rollins accomplish? (outside of possibly goading him into putting the contract on the line?) Couldn't he torment Heyman and attempt to get to Brock the same way he is Rollins? WWE booked themselves into a stupid corner here. Had Cena actually just lost the match at NOC due to Rollins and that's the end of his feud with Brock, it'd have made way more sense. But as it is, he's just spinning his wheels until Brock gets back. If it were real (and that's how it should always be approached psychology-wise) Cena's main goal is to be Champion. So, use your wits and muscle to force that. True, we have little more than a grudge match whenever Cena and Seth cross paths. Admittedly, not the highest of stakes.
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Boo!
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Post by Boo! on Sept 30, 2014 9:24:12 GMT -5
I'm always struck by how youthful Cena looks. Even next to Ambrose he still looks of similar age even though he's the best part of a decade his senior.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Sept 30, 2014 10:08:35 GMT -5
Cena is as bad now at being written as the focal point/main character of the show as HHH ever was during the Reign of Terror. MVP gets hired back after TNA folds for a "you people" angle.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Sept 30, 2014 11:24:28 GMT -5
If the WWE title and beating Brock is so important to Cena, why doesn't he, you know, go after Brock & Heyman instead? You know, since Brock is the prize anyway? Completely irrational, stupid backwards booking. And to whoever said that Cena's plight was comparable to Dean's --- come on. That's like saying that a guy who gets his car stolen is equal victim as a guy who was almost murdered in the most savage way possible by his best friend. Not even remotely comparable on any level in any rational universe. Because no one wants to see Cena/Lesnar for the third time in a row. Either Cena wins, and you know how that ends up, or Lesnar wins, meaning the entire full time roster is woefully inferior to this legit monster.
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Post by angryfan on Sept 30, 2014 11:37:45 GMT -5
If the WWE title and beating Brock is so important to Cena, why doesn't he, you know, go after Brock & Heyman instead? You know, since Brock is the prize anyway? Completely irrational, stupid backwards booking. And to whoever said that Cena's plight was comparable to Dean's --- come on. That's like saying that a guy who gets his car stolen is equal victim as a guy who was almost murdered in the most savage way possible by his best friend. Not even remotely comparable on any level in any rational universe. Because no one wants to see Cena/Lesnar for the third time in a row. Either Cena wins, and you know how that ends up, or Lesnar wins, meaning the entire full time roster is woefully inferior to this legit monster. But in pure in-character logic, Brock should be Cena's sole focus. I almost had him, that was the story he and the announcers were screaming. Thus, the "reasons he lost" are less important, as the "Next time I'll get him" should be. Dean's logic is, "He was my best friend then he turned on me, then he tried to kill me, I want to hurt him". If we put in "what's popular" and "what will pop buyrates" and the logic is "Cena is their sole selling point, so we have to put him in every feud", then the solution is equally easy. Give Cena the belt, have him squash monsters week after week, month after month, and have it be totally separate from the rest of the card. Think Big Daddy in England. He was a massive draw, and the show would always end with him doing his thing and beating the bad guy. The rest of the show wasn't forced to revolve around, and name drop, him, it functioned as an almost separate entity. If Cena will never change, and his logic will never change (whatever happens, I must be involved, and must be the most wounded by it, the most angered by it, and the most dedicated to stopping it), then the solution, the only solution, is you put his ass in a bubble and you keep him there. If he has to have the title for "his fans" to believe in him, then give it to him, and you focus the rest of the show, all of it, on a different title.
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Post by Robbymac on Sept 30, 2014 11:39:52 GMT -5
If the WWE title and beating Brock is so important to Cena, why doesn't he, you know, go after Brock & Heyman instead? You know, since Brock is the prize anyway? Completely irrational, stupid backwards booking. And to whoever said that Cena's plight was comparable to Dean's --- come on. That's like saying that a guy who gets his car stolen is equal victim as a guy who was almost murdered in the most savage way possible by his best friend. Not even remotely comparable on any level in any rational universe. This. EVERYTHING about the ending to MITB SCREAMED for Cena to demand another match in the cell with Brock to ensure no interference. What they're doing makes the ending to NOC even more head scratching.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Sept 30, 2014 11:40:22 GMT -5
Because no one wants to see Cena/Lesnar for the third time in a row. Either Cena wins, and you know how that ends up, or Lesnar wins, meaning the entire full time roster is woefully inferior to this legit monster. But in pure in-character logic, Brock should be Cena's sole focus. I almost had him, that was the story he and the announcers were screaming. Thus, the "reasons he lost" are less important, as the "Next time I'll get him" should be. Dean's logic is, "He was my best friend then he turned on me, then he tried to kill me, I want to hurt him". If we put in "what's popular" and "what will pop buyrates" and the logic is "Cena is their sole selling point, so we have to put him in every feud", then the solution is equally easy. Give Cena the belt, have him squash monsters week after week, month after month, and have it be totally separate from the rest of the card. Think Big Daddy in England. He was a massive draw, and the show would always end with him doing his thing and beating the bad guy. The rest of the show wasn't forced to revolve around, and name drop, him, it functioned as an almost separate entity. If Cena will never change, and his logic will never change (whatever happens, I must be involved, and must be the most wounded by it, the most angered by it, and the most dedicated to stopping it), then the solution, the only solution, is you put his ass in a bubble and you keep him there. If he has to have the title for "his fans" to believe in him, then give it to him, and you focus the rest of the show, all of it, on a different title. Cena wants a lot of things. Brock and the Authority have a slim as hell chance of offering Cena another title shot anytime soon, since he used up his rematch, the Authority don't want Cena as champion, anyway, and Lesnar would take great amusement in denying John, sitting home and waiting for the next big check for whoever is lined up for him next. Cena has nothing Lesnar wants.
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Post by Robbymac on Sept 30, 2014 11:41:01 GMT -5
If the WWE title and beating Brock is so important to Cena, why doesn't he, you know, go after Brock & Heyman instead? You know, since Brock is the prize anyway? Completely irrational, stupid backwards booking. And to whoever said that Cena's plight was comparable to Dean's --- come on. That's like saying that a guy who gets his car stolen is equal victim as a guy who was almost murdered in the most savage way possible by his best friend. Not even remotely comparable on any level in any rational universe. Because no one wants to see Cena/Lesnar for the third time in a row. Either Cena wins, and you know how that ends up, or Lesnar wins, meaning the entire full time roster is woefully inferior to this legit monster. Then they shouldn't have booked NOC in a way where the only thing that made sense was a third Lesnar/Cena match.
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Post by angryfan on Sept 30, 2014 11:51:14 GMT -5
But in pure in-character logic, Brock should be Cena's sole focus. I almost had him, that was the story he and the announcers were screaming. Thus, the "reasons he lost" are less important, as the "Next time I'll get him" should be. Dean's logic is, "He was my best friend then he turned on me, then he tried to kill me, I want to hurt him". If we put in "what's popular" and "what will pop buyrates" and the logic is "Cena is their sole selling point, so we have to put him in every feud", then the solution is equally easy. Give Cena the belt, have him squash monsters week after week, month after month, and have it be totally separate from the rest of the card. Think Big Daddy in England. He was a massive draw, and the show would always end with him doing his thing and beating the bad guy. The rest of the show wasn't forced to revolve around, and name drop, him, it functioned as an almost separate entity. If Cena will never change, and his logic will never change (whatever happens, I must be involved, and must be the most wounded by it, the most angered by it, and the most dedicated to stopping it), then the solution, the only solution, is you put his ass in a bubble and you keep him there. If he has to have the title for "his fans" to believe in him, then give it to him, and you focus the rest of the show, all of it, on a different title. Cena wants a lot of things. Brock and the Authority have a slim as hell chance of offering Cena another title shot anytime soon, since he used up his rematch, the Authority don't want Cena as champion, anyway, and Lesnar would take great amusement in denying John, sitting home and waiting for the next big check for whoever is lined up for him next. Cena has nothing Lesnar wants. Makes sense from a heel standpoint, especially the "corporate heel" standpoint, but I don't see them Rydering Ambrose as the solution, as it doesn't make sense. It's "You have a personal issue with him, well since they won't give me a rematch, I'm gonna kick HIS ass! Yeah, I know you want to, and were fighting him before hand, but get in line, because the champ is here" or whatever. Hell that would actually work, since you've got Orton and Kane who are sick of Rollins, you've got Dean who wants him dead, and Cena who wants revenge for "taking his win away". You have the authority do the whole "you're on your own kid" bit, and you have them both face him, 2 on 1. Sure there will be shenanigans, sure there will be a run in or five, but what you don't, absolutely don't, do is have the story be "See JOHN CENA beat up Rollins, and Ambrose will be there, but screw that guy, JOHN IS HERE". Characterwise it works, because you've got Ambrose completely unhinged who can say, "You can be there, but don't stop me from doing what I want to him, or I'll hurt you too". You make them at least semi-equals, and you don't Gilligan the shit outta Ambrose.
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Post by Baby, it’s Jes outside on Sept 30, 2014 12:12:09 GMT -5
Maybe Cena is going after Rollins because kayfabe he knows he gave Brock his best and still couldn't beat him. So he goes after a conceivably weaker opponent.
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ededdneddy
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Post by ededdneddy on Sept 30, 2014 12:49:47 GMT -5
Cena is pretty much a kid with a temper tantrum when ever he doesn't get what he wants or things don't go his way. Its like Cartman whenever he whines about wanting something but when his mom says no he whines and complains until his mom gives in due to knowing that the only way to make him stop is to give in and give him what he wants.
In simple terms, Cena is a whiney, self-centered, jerkass prick
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Post by Baby, it’s Jes outside on Sept 30, 2014 12:57:03 GMT -5
Cena is pretty much a kid with a temper tantrum when ever he doesn't get what he wants or things don't go his way. Its like Cartman whenever he whines about wanting something but when his mom says no he whines and complains until his mom gives in due to knowing that the only way to make him stop is to give in and give him what he wants. In simple terms, Cena is a whiney, self-centered, jerkass prick Noooo! Really?
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TheDieselTrain
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Post by TheDieselTrain on Sept 30, 2014 12:58:55 GMT -5
You mean Cena shouldn't be livid that Seth Rollins prevented him from 1. Winning the WWE Title 2. Proving everyone wrong by beating the man that was said to be unstoppable 3. Getting his revenge on the guy who annihilated him with ease a month earlier 4. Prevented him from tying Ric Flair's record for most World Title wins Nah, he has no reason to be pissed Rise Above Hate....... That not his thing anymore? Shouldn't he have forgiven him like the next day? What a phony.
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Post by Neo: "The One" who CLAPS on Sept 30, 2014 13:25:55 GMT -5
Sure, Rollins cost Cena a chance at history, beating the One in 21-1, and tying Flairs record. But Ambrose was betrayed by his best friend, watched as his friend joined his greatest enemy, and almost saw his career end at his traitorous brothers hands. Cena, in the character that the WWE would want us to think he is, would understand Deans plight and head straight for Brock.
This all comes down to WWE's horrible booking of Cena. They should have just had Cena lose to Brock cleanly, or by Rollins' hands. But now here we are, again, with a rising star in danger of having his heat hijacked by Cena.
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Johnny B. Decent
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Sept 30, 2014 13:30:49 GMT -5
But now here we are, again, with a rising star in danger of having his heat hijacked by Cena. ...Again.
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