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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 16:31:24 GMT -5
Anyone but Slaughter. He sucked as a heel. Oh heavens no. Sarge was a great heel. He made that military guy thing work so well to get people to boo him. ........but for people my age (and around it, I guess), Sgt. Slaughter was GI JOE. And THAT made him a bad heel - that he was a good American hero guy, and then suddenly..............an Iraqi.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 16:37:42 GMT -5
Anyone but Slaughter. He sucked as a heel. Oh heavens no. Sarge was a great heel. He made that military guy thing work so well to get people to boo him. ........but for people my age (and around it, I guess), Sgt. Slaughter was GI JOE. And THAT made him a bad heel - that he was a good American hero guy, and then suddenly..............an Iraqi. I agree that Sarge was a great heel, but I didn't have any problem believing in him as a traitor to the country. Being the heel seemed much more natural for him than the babyface to me. Slaughter himself confirms this that he loved playing the bad guy so much more than the good guy. In recent years I've had a chance to see him in late 80's AWA as a babyface, and his promos were often rambling and not very effective, but he really tightened things up when he got to come back and play the Iraqi sympathizer in 1990.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 16:42:23 GMT -5
Oh heavens no. Sarge was a great heel. He made that military guy thing work so well to get people to boo him. ........but for people my age (and around it, I guess), Sgt. Slaughter was GI JOE. And THAT made him a bad heel - that he was a good American hero guy, and then suddenly..............an Iraqi. I agree that Sarge was a great heel, but I didn't have any problem believing in him as a traitor to the country. Being the heel seemed much more natural for him than the babyface to me. Slaughter himself confirms this that he loved playing the bad guy so much more than the good guy. In recent years I've had a chance to see him in late 80's AWA as a babyface, and his promos were often rambling and not very effective, but he really tightened things up when he got to come back and play the Iraqi sympathizer in 1990. I also saw heel Sarge when he came back in 1990 as a slap to the whole GI Joe thing (which got Slaughter fired back in '84-85, for making that deal without the WWF involved with it). With the exception of calling him a "real American hero" at WM20, I don't think they ever ever ever referenced GI Joe once when he was back in the WWF. The pre-Iraqi heel run, though, didn't seem to work as well on just Sarge being a heel - again, like Hassan's failure in 2004, it relied on Sarge having a good point in being a prick but ultimately had nothing real substantial to piss the fans off. Being a traitor was what got him truly hated.......but of course, being blunt with subtlety has always been something the WWF has excelled at.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Boo! on Oct 13, 2014 16:43:25 GMT -5
I think people under estimate his GI Joe appeal.
Bring him him summer of 1990. Hulk is out at hands of Earthquake and he needs cheering up and coaxing back. Who else better than the drill sergeant himself? Slaughter returns as the number 1 Hulkamaniac and patriot. Post Quake feud Hogan and Slaughter form a kind of 'All American' tag duo through to Survivor Series and then Slaughter turns, suddenly lays Hogan out of action and gets the title from Warrior at RR (as happened) then the big story could be Hogan getting revenge on his former friend and turncoat Slaughter who by then could be cutting promos along the lines of "I turned on Hogan because America turned on me..." etc.
It may not have drawn what Hulk vs Savage did two years earlier but I think it would have made a lot less people cold and resentful to the product and company.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 16:45:30 GMT -5
As mentioned, the angle wasn't the only thing wrong with it. Slaughter was also a problem. He was a terrible promo (at least in 1990/1991) and the WWF thinking they could shoe horn him into the main event picture and make him a credible threat to Hogan strictly due to the storyline involved was a terrible miscalculation by Vince. Slaughter in 1990 and 1991 was awful. I honestly don't know what was worse, his heel run or his "I want my country back" face turn. He was just the wrong guy at the wrong time.
The only main event that had a shot of filling the LA Coliseum was Hogan/Warrior II. That would have robbed us of Savage/Warrior, though.
I've said many times, Ric Flair joined the WWF one year too late. If he showed up in late-1990, then he could have beaten Warrior at Rumble '91 and we could have had Hogan/Flair and Warrior/Savage at WM 7. Timing was awful, as by 1991/92, Hogan's momentum had started to fall and Warrior ended up having a falling out with the company.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Boo! on Oct 13, 2014 16:50:47 GMT -5
Had they not got Slaughter back at all what for Hogan?
Taker was too soon. Warrior and Savage were occupied. Quake was exhausted. DiBiase I don't think was of that level any more. You could have maybe turned Jake but other than that I'm not sure where they'd have gone. I really don't like the idea of rematches I don't think the idea of repeating somethng then even if theres a year's gap would have gone down well even if it was vs Warrior. It'd already happened.
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Crappler El 0 M
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Oct 13, 2014 16:53:14 GMT -5
Had they not got Slaughter back at all what for Hogan? Taker was too soon. Warrior and Savage were occupied. Quake was exhausted. DiBiase I don't think was of that level any more. You could have maybe turned Jake but other than that I'm not sure where they'd have gone. I really don't like the idea of rematches I don't think the idea of repeating somethng then even if theres a year's gap would have gone down well even if it was vs Warrior. It'd already happened. I think they could done one more Earthquake match because they never gave us Hogan beating Earthquake clean with the leg drop. It may have happened on a live event, but it didn't happen on a grand stage. In this scenario you can still do Warrior/Savage retirement match with the retirement stipulation and have it for the WWE Championship. You can end the show with the reunion with Liz and it can appear to be Savage's send-off to end the show. The other option would be Hogan-Warrior II with Hogan as the challenger and Warrior as the champion. I think both of these would have been better. If this scenario you have to re-work the undercard. You might want to bring back Piper earlier (he returned to the ring that fall). You also have Perfect, Roberts, DiBiase, Earthquake, Undertaker, Bossman, LOD, and Hart Foundation.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 16:55:28 GMT -5
Had they not got Slaughter back at all what for Hogan? Taker was too soon. Warrior and Savage were occupied. Quake was exhausted. DiBiase I don't think was of that level any more. You could have maybe turned Jake but other than that I'm not sure where they'd have gone. I really don't like the idea of rematches I don't think the idea of repeating somethng then even if theres a year's gap would have gone down well even if it was vs Warrior. It'd already happened. True. Maybe Mr. Perfect, but I dunno. I've always seen Mr. Perfect as upper midcard, but many believed he should have been main event. It also occurs to me to have Piper turn heel again. I think they could have gotten a lot more mileage out of him as a heel, but then again he had that injury before WrestleMania so that would not have worked out.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Boo! on Oct 13, 2014 16:57:29 GMT -5
Had they not got Slaughter back at all what for Hogan? Taker was too soon. Warrior and Savage were occupied. Quake was exhausted. DiBiase I don't think was of that level any more. You could have maybe turned Jake but other than that I'm not sure where they'd have gone. I really don't like the idea of rematches I don't think the idea of repeating somethng then even if theres a year's gap would have gone down well even if it was vs Warrior. It'd already happened. I think they could done one more Earthquake match because they never gave us Hogan beating Earthquake clean with the leg drop. It may have happened on a live event, but it didn't happen on a grand stage. The other option would be Hogan-Warrior II with Hogan as the challenger and Warrior as the champion. I think both of these would have been better. But by that point Quake vs Hogan would have been a match marketed to every town in north America. things didn't have PPV endings back then, sometimes a PPV was just done to promote that summers/falls/winters house show run. I really don't think you could squeeze 10 months out of Hogan vs Quake. Everything from Hogan vs Andre to Warrior through Savage was done really post Rumble of each year. 10 months build up for a match that everyone you marketed to had either seen on house shows or at Summerslam. The fact there wasn't a decisive decision at SS is just how it worked back then. Looking at what Quake was doing at the time he couldn't have had much heat then anyway.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Boo! on Oct 13, 2014 16:58:27 GMT -5
Had they not got Slaughter back at all what for Hogan? Taker was too soon. Warrior and Savage were occupied. Quake was exhausted. DiBiase I don't think was of that level any more. You could have maybe turned Jake but other than that I'm not sure where they'd have gone. I really don't like the idea of rematches I don't think the idea of repeating somethng then even if theres a year's gap would have gone down well even if it was vs Warrior. It'd already happened. True. Maybe Mr. Perfect, but I dunno. I've always seen Mr. Perfect as upper midcard, but many believed he should have been main event. It also occurs to me to have Piper turn heel again. I think they could have gotten a lot more mileage out of him as a heel, but then again he had that injury before WrestleMania so that would not have worked out. Piper could have worked but he had his knee/hip thing then didn't he? Enough time had passed for it to be fresh again but I dunno how you get the belt off Warrior
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Post by Mid-Carder on Oct 13, 2014 17:00:26 GMT -5
They could have turned Warrior heel and had Hogan beat him at 7
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 17:37:22 GMT -5
True. Maybe Mr. Perfect, but I dunno. I've always seen Mr. Perfect as upper midcard, but many believed he should have been main event. It also occurs to me to have Piper turn heel again. I think they could have gotten a lot more mileage out of him as a heel, but then again he had that injury before WrestleMania so that would not have worked out. Piper could have worked but he had his knee/hip thing then didn't he? Enough time had passed for it to be fresh again but I dunno how you get the belt off Warrior When Piper was doing color commentary that year, he was always pretty critical of Warrior even though they were both faces. Piper amps this up going into SummerSlam '90. After the PPV, Warrior finally references Piper's criticism of him in a promo and calls him out for being a has-been playing a tough guy from the safety of the commentary table or something like that. Piper then confronts Warrior and does a worked shoot about not liking his tassles, his silly war paint, his crazy talk, and how he didn't need anything like that when he was in the ring. Warrior points out that Piper fought the same opponents he did, but the difference in them is that Piper couldn't win his battles. This provokes Piper to come out of retirement in late '90, and he has a string of victories leading up to Rumble '91 where he gets the title shot against Warrior, still as a babyface. Savage is critical of this, claiming that he deserved the shot over Piper. At the Rumble match, Savage interferes and Piper wins the belt and spits on Warrior, becoming a heel in the process for being in cahoots with Savage. This sets up a tag match for SNME in which Piper and Savage takes on a Warrior and a mystery opponent.... Hulk Hogan. This sets up the Savage/Warrior career ending match for WM7, while at the same time Piper lobbies to get Hogan in the #1 contenders spot for WM7, rubbing it in his face that this time he's the one who's wearing the belt and Hogan is the one who has to take it away, all the while emphasizing that the challenger has to beat the champion, but the champion doesn't necessarily have to beat the challenger. The connotation is that Piper will do whatever he has to do to keep the title away from Hogan, but then Jack Tunney makes the stipulation "No DQ" which sets the stage for an all out "War to Settle the Score" at WrestleMania 7.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Boo! on Oct 13, 2014 17:42:43 GMT -5
Yeah I like that idea.
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suave
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Post by suave on Oct 13, 2014 17:58:32 GMT -5
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Post by ToyfareMark on Oct 13, 2014 18:47:10 GMT -5
Despite the angle being bad, and all that crap. The match Hogan and Slaughter had at WM7 was actually really good. Warrior/Savage obviously overshadows it tremendously, but I'd say its an underrated classic.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Oct 14, 2014 0:20:42 GMT -5
"I'm tellin' ya bro, if they hadn't cut the Batman/ISIS angle at the knees due to corporate pressure we coulda won the war. Bischoff worked the marks at CNN into making Ebola the main event, which brought everything to a halt."
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Post by MC Blowfish on Oct 16, 2014 11:58:13 GMT -5
How long was Slaughter in WWF before getting the title? Did he just show up and go after Warrior or did he have a small feud with Volkoff first?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 12:15:10 GMT -5
How long was Slaughter in WWF before getting the title? Did he just show up and go after Warrior or did he have a small feud with Volkoff first? He showed up between Summerslam and Survivor Series '90 as I recall and had an intro feud with Volkoff. Slaughter took out nearly the whole opposing team (including Nikolai) at Survivor Series, except for Tito. They pushed him pretty good and made him look pretty legit going into Rumble '91.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 16, 2014 14:28:44 GMT -5
I loved Slaughter's heel theme
Just a constant military drum roll. Simple and effective.
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Oct 17, 2014 21:15:03 GMT -5
So you want to do the story of Sgt. Slaughter as a former military hero during a time when America was at war without the Iraqi sympathizer aspect and expect people to boo him? My God man, you're brilliant. You just found the easiest way to turn a pre-nWo Hulk Hogan heel.
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