Post by Racksman on Oct 15, 2014 12:44:52 GMT -5
I know these type of topics pop up quite often, any kind of list topics do, and usually I scoff at doing them so much. But I'm currently laid up a couple hours after getting my wisdom teeth removed, and I'm bored, and could use a good discussion.
So to make it interesting, I'm not necessarily talking about matches that are considered these legendary affairs. You don't have to say Savage/Steamboat or Bret/Shawn or Flair/Steamboat or Flair/Sting just because they're (considered by some) to be some of the greatest contests ever.
What are YOUR personal just absolute favorite matches, and why? Be descriptive, be honest. Share five of them and let's get a discussion going, as I really enjoy this section of the board.
And yes, the percocets are running wild right now, so I apologize in advance for rambling.
In no real order...
1. The Rock [c] vs. Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker, WWE Undisputed Championship, Vengeance 2002 - I've been watching wrestling since, as far as my father's told me, the day I was born. And although my earliest cognitive memories are around the 1990 Royal Rumble, I have to say that this was the first time as a fan, at the age of 15, that I was completely and utterly enthralled with everything going on in the ring between these three men. They all had separate stories going into the event, it was a nice mini feud between Rock/Angle who had history as well as Rock/Taker that had been kind of feuding since January (when Rock would be around that is), and I just felt everything was masterful. I was always an Undertaker fan, but I felt like 2002 was his breakout year as an actual WRESTLER instead of just a brawling big guy. Angle was in his absolute prime, and Rock could absolutely still go, and it was a great way to continue Angle's epic run into the Fall, turn the Undertaker babyface, and continue the Rock's push into his big match with Brock at Summerslam 2002. Also, looking back, while I remembered alot of bad stuff from 2002, in retrospective, how great was WWE for the MOST PART in 2002?
2. Hulk Hogan [c] vs. Big Van Vader, WCW World Heavyweight Championship, Steel Cage Match, Bash at the Beach 1995 - I saw this Pay-Per-View when I was younger and short of a few moments (i.e. - The Giant's debut on the pre-show) I really did remember much about it. But a couple of weeks ago, I was hammering my way through WCW 1995 for an on-going review project on another board. It was the first time I had seen this Hogan/Vader match. And after Vader's HORRIBLE misuse since the beginning of the Hogan feud, a misuse that practically killed the character -- it was like suddenly, when Sullivan got the book at some point in Spring of '95, he came in with one last fell swoop and briefly saved the Hogan/Vader character, complete with the Road Kill tour (which was SO entertaining and highly original for the time). And the match itself...I mean look, Hogan has this on/off switch and when he wanted to, he could really deliver a great match with the right opponent, even in 1995. And Vader is one of my all time favorites, I think is the perfect epitome of a big man wrestler and perhaps the greatest big man of all-time. And this match, inside the big steel cage, was just a masterpiece as far as these two were concerned. Hogan sold injuries which is a rarity for him, Vader was extra brutal and worked with a desperate flair since this would be his "final shot". Hogan's defensive measures were fantastic. Vader attempted a Shooting Star Press for crying out loud and even though he botched it, I felt that added to the story more! He was so desperate to win the title back in this last shot, he was going to attempt a move he had never done publically to try and squash Hulkamania, and it didn't work. And as Hogan went to escape the cage, Vader made a last ditch effot and then, these two monsters were able to somehow WALK ACROSS THE ENTIRE TOP ROPE and get in this AWESOME fist fight that saw Vader fall like a mighty oak tree, allowing Hogan to escape. It was just...absolutely beautifully done by both men. It's probably at this point, the best Hulk Hogan match I have ever seen in his WCW era, and after reviewing most of WCW between 1985-2001 (only missing 86-87, 91 and I'm redoing 96-97) I HAVE seen every Hogan WCW match. This was fantastic and if you are into this style of wrestling, my god, use the Network to your disposal, Fast Forward through an otherwise forgettable PPV, and watch this match!
3. Kurt Angle [c] vs. Brock Lesnar, WWE Championship, Iron Man Match, Smackdown Season Premiere, September 2003 - I know that Bret vs. Shawn is always going to have it's fans. And while I don't hate it, I find it vastly overrated. There are other Iron Man matches that stick out in my head as legitimately great contests (Rock/HHH; Rude/Steamboat), this will always be my favorite. This was during a period where it felt like (and has later been confirmed to be true) that Raw and Smackdown legitimately were competing with each other in a behind the scenes sense. That company rivalry that Vince had wanted to created on-screen was suddenly taking off better behind the scenes, and it made for alot of memorable things that I feel get taken for granted a decade later. But I digress. THIS MATCH. I feel that it was just the most beautifully booked Iron Man match ever. Brock's slow turn back into a heel monster over the previous weeks, and Angle moving back towards being full fledged babyface after Brock and Angle's friendship in the Summer, all of it came to a head here. And within those first few minutes, when Brock BLATANTLY got a DQ "pinfall" by decimating Angle with a steel chair (letting Angle go up 1-0) and then was able to have a distinctive advantage over the next hour was great. Brock dominated and Angle's comebacks were so amazingly out of this world, the drama when he had the grapevine Ankle Lock on just as time expires...Jesus. Brock goes into his most memorable period from this match and it started with him winning the WWE Title again on his stomach being JUST THAT EXTRA BIT OF TOUGH ENOUGH to sustain that extra long Ankle Lock at the end of that match. And the despair Angle had when he was that close to retaining after that entire match was fantastic, I can't say enough about this match.
4. Ric Flair vs. Arn Anderson, Fall Brawl 1995 - I feel like we've all seen this match, so I don't want to get as descript (plus the meds are starting to make me a bit tired now). But this feud (ironically beginning at the very end of the Hogan/Vader match mentioned above) was part of a year long storyline that was actually really well done for the time, as alot of it was underlying storytelling and things you wouldn't pick up on until months later. Some people don't like stories like that, and I'll admit, when they're not done right and make you think too much, yeah, they can be annoying. But building up to an otherwise unheard of notion, that the Enforcer would dare step up to the Nature Boy after growing frustrated with Flair's insanity over Hogan, and feeling that Flair was no longer the man he was once proud to call his brother...the fact that Flair took his eyes off of the prize that the Symbol of Excellence represented and Arn needed to prove it to Flair, and prove it to himself, that he could do this, and that Ric Flair could still be Ric Flair. And after almost 25 minutes of an amazing match, the big twist comes -- Arn's reforming the Horsemen without Flair! And for the next couple of weeks, a desparate Ric Flair reached everywhere for help, including to Randy Savage and Sting, as Arn taught Pillman the ways of the Horsemen and began scouting for a third. And once Arn saw the old Ric Flair inside of their Steel Cage Match on Nitro in October, TO ME, that's when the in-character thought happens of Arn going "Okay, he's back" and now, the Horsemen can reform and Sting is the catalyst for the turn and it was just great. And that storyline that I love so was spawned because of this match, and it hurts me that this match isn't up there on alot of other people's lists as their favorites or as matches people consider to be one of the greatest.
5. Ricky Steamboat vs. Lex Luger, #1 Contender's Match, The Great American Bash 1989 - This may seem like an odd choice. But Lex Luger had a career year in 1989, and even into the very early 90's, was a legitimately great competitor. While he's more known for his embarrassing WWF run and for his second WCW run being largely lazy and uneventful (although I debate some of that as well), Luger seriously had such a great year in 1989, but it gets overshadowed because of the Flair/Steamboat matches, and the Flair/Funk matches. This was another one that the storyline carried it to a unique spot for me, as it was Luger becoming an angry heel that he had all of these chances and he couldn't get the job done against Flair. But in comes Steamboat, and he was able to do it. And Steamboat recieved this praise, even from Flair himself, but meanwhile, Luger felt like he was on the backburner. And their styles in the match just meshed so well. An angry heel Luger against a desperate and worn-out Ricky Steamboat after 6 of the toughest months of his career. And as months of exhausation and now what Luger had been doing to him at every turn for the past two months, for Ricky Steamboat to finally snap and lose it all by destroying Lex with a steel chair and getting DQ'd, it was just brilliant booking. I only wish Steamboat had stuck around after this for more than just a singles match against Terry Funk, but alas, actual exhausation and time away from his family had yet again made him step away. But seriously, to me, this is another major must watch for any fan of this time period.
Okay, again, sorry for the rambling and the gushing over these five matches, but I'd like to get a discussion going and I'm interested to read your opinions not only on my choices, but I want to read the reasoning behind your choices too!
So to make it interesting, I'm not necessarily talking about matches that are considered these legendary affairs. You don't have to say Savage/Steamboat or Bret/Shawn or Flair/Steamboat or Flair/Sting just because they're (considered by some) to be some of the greatest contests ever.
What are YOUR personal just absolute favorite matches, and why? Be descriptive, be honest. Share five of them and let's get a discussion going, as I really enjoy this section of the board.
And yes, the percocets are running wild right now, so I apologize in advance for rambling.
In no real order...
1. The Rock [c] vs. Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker, WWE Undisputed Championship, Vengeance 2002 - I've been watching wrestling since, as far as my father's told me, the day I was born. And although my earliest cognitive memories are around the 1990 Royal Rumble, I have to say that this was the first time as a fan, at the age of 15, that I was completely and utterly enthralled with everything going on in the ring between these three men. They all had separate stories going into the event, it was a nice mini feud between Rock/Angle who had history as well as Rock/Taker that had been kind of feuding since January (when Rock would be around that is), and I just felt everything was masterful. I was always an Undertaker fan, but I felt like 2002 was his breakout year as an actual WRESTLER instead of just a brawling big guy. Angle was in his absolute prime, and Rock could absolutely still go, and it was a great way to continue Angle's epic run into the Fall, turn the Undertaker babyface, and continue the Rock's push into his big match with Brock at Summerslam 2002. Also, looking back, while I remembered alot of bad stuff from 2002, in retrospective, how great was WWE for the MOST PART in 2002?
2. Hulk Hogan [c] vs. Big Van Vader, WCW World Heavyweight Championship, Steel Cage Match, Bash at the Beach 1995 - I saw this Pay-Per-View when I was younger and short of a few moments (i.e. - The Giant's debut on the pre-show) I really did remember much about it. But a couple of weeks ago, I was hammering my way through WCW 1995 for an on-going review project on another board. It was the first time I had seen this Hogan/Vader match. And after Vader's HORRIBLE misuse since the beginning of the Hogan feud, a misuse that practically killed the character -- it was like suddenly, when Sullivan got the book at some point in Spring of '95, he came in with one last fell swoop and briefly saved the Hogan/Vader character, complete with the Road Kill tour (which was SO entertaining and highly original for the time). And the match itself...I mean look, Hogan has this on/off switch and when he wanted to, he could really deliver a great match with the right opponent, even in 1995. And Vader is one of my all time favorites, I think is the perfect epitome of a big man wrestler and perhaps the greatest big man of all-time. And this match, inside the big steel cage, was just a masterpiece as far as these two were concerned. Hogan sold injuries which is a rarity for him, Vader was extra brutal and worked with a desperate flair since this would be his "final shot". Hogan's defensive measures were fantastic. Vader attempted a Shooting Star Press for crying out loud and even though he botched it, I felt that added to the story more! He was so desperate to win the title back in this last shot, he was going to attempt a move he had never done publically to try and squash Hulkamania, and it didn't work. And as Hogan went to escape the cage, Vader made a last ditch effot and then, these two monsters were able to somehow WALK ACROSS THE ENTIRE TOP ROPE and get in this AWESOME fist fight that saw Vader fall like a mighty oak tree, allowing Hogan to escape. It was just...absolutely beautifully done by both men. It's probably at this point, the best Hulk Hogan match I have ever seen in his WCW era, and after reviewing most of WCW between 1985-2001 (only missing 86-87, 91 and I'm redoing 96-97) I HAVE seen every Hogan WCW match. This was fantastic and if you are into this style of wrestling, my god, use the Network to your disposal, Fast Forward through an otherwise forgettable PPV, and watch this match!
3. Kurt Angle [c] vs. Brock Lesnar, WWE Championship, Iron Man Match, Smackdown Season Premiere, September 2003 - I know that Bret vs. Shawn is always going to have it's fans. And while I don't hate it, I find it vastly overrated. There are other Iron Man matches that stick out in my head as legitimately great contests (Rock/HHH; Rude/Steamboat), this will always be my favorite. This was during a period where it felt like (and has later been confirmed to be true) that Raw and Smackdown legitimately were competing with each other in a behind the scenes sense. That company rivalry that Vince had wanted to created on-screen was suddenly taking off better behind the scenes, and it made for alot of memorable things that I feel get taken for granted a decade later. But I digress. THIS MATCH. I feel that it was just the most beautifully booked Iron Man match ever. Brock's slow turn back into a heel monster over the previous weeks, and Angle moving back towards being full fledged babyface after Brock and Angle's friendship in the Summer, all of it came to a head here. And within those first few minutes, when Brock BLATANTLY got a DQ "pinfall" by decimating Angle with a steel chair (letting Angle go up 1-0) and then was able to have a distinctive advantage over the next hour was great. Brock dominated and Angle's comebacks were so amazingly out of this world, the drama when he had the grapevine Ankle Lock on just as time expires...Jesus. Brock goes into his most memorable period from this match and it started with him winning the WWE Title again on his stomach being JUST THAT EXTRA BIT OF TOUGH ENOUGH to sustain that extra long Ankle Lock at the end of that match. And the despair Angle had when he was that close to retaining after that entire match was fantastic, I can't say enough about this match.
4. Ric Flair vs. Arn Anderson, Fall Brawl 1995 - I feel like we've all seen this match, so I don't want to get as descript (plus the meds are starting to make me a bit tired now). But this feud (ironically beginning at the very end of the Hogan/Vader match mentioned above) was part of a year long storyline that was actually really well done for the time, as alot of it was underlying storytelling and things you wouldn't pick up on until months later. Some people don't like stories like that, and I'll admit, when they're not done right and make you think too much, yeah, they can be annoying. But building up to an otherwise unheard of notion, that the Enforcer would dare step up to the Nature Boy after growing frustrated with Flair's insanity over Hogan, and feeling that Flair was no longer the man he was once proud to call his brother...the fact that Flair took his eyes off of the prize that the Symbol of Excellence represented and Arn needed to prove it to Flair, and prove it to himself, that he could do this, and that Ric Flair could still be Ric Flair. And after almost 25 minutes of an amazing match, the big twist comes -- Arn's reforming the Horsemen without Flair! And for the next couple of weeks, a desparate Ric Flair reached everywhere for help, including to Randy Savage and Sting, as Arn taught Pillman the ways of the Horsemen and began scouting for a third. And once Arn saw the old Ric Flair inside of their Steel Cage Match on Nitro in October, TO ME, that's when the in-character thought happens of Arn going "Okay, he's back" and now, the Horsemen can reform and Sting is the catalyst for the turn and it was just great. And that storyline that I love so was spawned because of this match, and it hurts me that this match isn't up there on alot of other people's lists as their favorites or as matches people consider to be one of the greatest.
5. Ricky Steamboat vs. Lex Luger, #1 Contender's Match, The Great American Bash 1989 - This may seem like an odd choice. But Lex Luger had a career year in 1989, and even into the very early 90's, was a legitimately great competitor. While he's more known for his embarrassing WWF run and for his second WCW run being largely lazy and uneventful (although I debate some of that as well), Luger seriously had such a great year in 1989, but it gets overshadowed because of the Flair/Steamboat matches, and the Flair/Funk matches. This was another one that the storyline carried it to a unique spot for me, as it was Luger becoming an angry heel that he had all of these chances and he couldn't get the job done against Flair. But in comes Steamboat, and he was able to do it. And Steamboat recieved this praise, even from Flair himself, but meanwhile, Luger felt like he was on the backburner. And their styles in the match just meshed so well. An angry heel Luger against a desperate and worn-out Ricky Steamboat after 6 of the toughest months of his career. And as months of exhausation and now what Luger had been doing to him at every turn for the past two months, for Ricky Steamboat to finally snap and lose it all by destroying Lex with a steel chair and getting DQ'd, it was just brilliant booking. I only wish Steamboat had stuck around after this for more than just a singles match against Terry Funk, but alas, actual exhausation and time away from his family had yet again made him step away. But seriously, to me, this is another major must watch for any fan of this time period.
Okay, again, sorry for the rambling and the gushing over these five matches, but I'd like to get a discussion going and I'm interested to read your opinions not only on my choices, but I want to read the reasoning behind your choices too!