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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 15:17:21 GMT -5
I'm just wrapping up watching all PPV's and CATC from WCW 1993 for just $9.99 (thank you WWE Network). Funny thing is, I remembered thinking more highly of this year than I did this rewatching. A few observations:
1. Schiavone and Ventura. Awful. Painful to watch. Normally I defend Tony, but in '93 he didn't seem to have any passion or interest in putting over the product. His pairing with Ventura was a total mismatch. Ventura tries to be his outrageous self, but Tony flat out ignores him, resulting in awkward silence. Sometimes Tony is calling the action and he just stops talking, leading to another prolonged silence, when Jesse just starts doing the play-by-play while Tony says nothing. Then, Tony seems to wake up and start calling the match again in a broken, disinterested fashion. Sometimes it's like they are calling the match from separate rooms and not even reacting to one another. The painful awkwardness of the commentary really drug some of the shows down for me.
2. The crowds are awful, sometimes infuriatingly. WCW had a lot of great workers in '93, but some matches felt slow and boring because the crowd just sat on their hands. One match in particular had Steamboat and Orndorff facing off for the TV belt. I thought it was a great match, but I heard people in the crowd chanting "boring". I'm thinking... why do you come to a wrestling show and chant "boring" when you've got two guys the caliber of Steamboat and Orndorff working hard to put on a good match?
3. The 3 Horsemen. What was the point of bringing back the babyface 3 Horsemen? They didn't really do anything. It's not hard for me to understand why Roma didn't work out as a Horseman, because the creative behind the stable in '93 just sucked. You had Flair inexplicably running as the babyface and Anderson/Roma illogically thrust into the role of crowd favorites just because that's what Flair was doing. You could tell that the fans were confused during those tag matches where it was Anderson/Roma against a heel team.
4. BattleBowl. I love the concept for this show and enjoyed it in spite of itself, but could the execution have been worse? Showing a split screen of the Good Guy Locker Room and Bad Guy Locker Room waiting to see if their names will be picked? Then, in more than one match you have the babyface selling out his heel partner and helping the babyface on the other team get the win, then celebrating even though their stupidity led to their own elimination from BattleBowl? Then in one match you have Flair getting onto his partner Steve Austin for cheating. Lame.
5. War Games. Maybe the biggest match of the year for WCW and it looked like they put about 5 minutes thought into it. I don't think the cage was even used as a weapon for the whole match. Just boring brawling, brawling and more brawling, then a horrible finish where Shockmaster of all people makes Booker T submit to a bearhug. Then after the match ends, Booker T doesn't even look hurt and denies that he gave up. Meanwhile, Jesse and Tony marvel at how Shockmaster, who can't even walk to the ring without falling down, actually was the one that got the finish.
There were good things about WCW in '93 too, but the good things seemed to be sandwiched between a lot of bad. '93 was a rough year for WWE too, and overall just kind of a bad year in wrestling.
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Madagascar Fred
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Post by Madagascar Fred on Oct 17, 2014 15:51:08 GMT -5
didnt watch too much 93 WCW (not the best reputation), but I always thought that the wrong guys got undeserved pushes, also way too many WWF "rejects" (Bulldog, Typhoon, Sid, Roma) getting bigger spots than more deserving homegrown guys (Blondes, Shane, Cactus)
at least there were Sting, Vader, Blondes, Cactus & Steamboat who still ruled & gave their best most of the time
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Post by cabbageboy on Oct 17, 2014 17:55:50 GMT -5
This is an interesting phenomenon because I felt much the same at the time and was shocked at how badly received that era was. It's the difference between watching the PPVs and watching the week to week TV. Week to week was actually quite good and most of the Clashes are good shows during that time period. But the PPVs are just...bleh. Some are just forgettable and a few are outright clunkers.
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Chuck Conry
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Post by Chuck Conry on Oct 17, 2014 18:53:55 GMT -5
didnt watch too much 93 WCW (not the best reputation), but I always thought that the wrong guys got undeserved pushes, also way too many WWF "rejects" (Bulldog, Typhoon, Sid, Roma) getting bigger spots than more deserving homegrown guys (Blondes, Shane, Cactus) at least there were Sting, Vader, Blondes, Cactus & Steamboat who still ruled & gave their best most of the time I'll give you the rest, but having first seen Sid as a Skyscraper and then with the Horsemen before he left for WWF the first time, Sid always seemed like a WCW guy to me up until his second run with WWF. |
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Post by jason1980s on Oct 17, 2014 19:23:30 GMT -5
I see 1993 and 1991 in a similar way in how it seemed like so many lower card guys, who didn't last long, were being brought in.
I was always a WWF guy but was brought to WCW during both years. I watched around late 1991 and into early 1992 and came back in late 1993 and into early 1994.
1991 saw the loss of Flair as probably the biggest issue while 1993 saw the split of the Blondes and the Roma version of the Horsemen as the two biggest issues that could've been controlled.
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Post by Digital Witness on Oct 17, 2014 19:37:07 GMT -5
didnt watch too much 93 WCW (not the best reputation), but I always thought that the wrong guys got undeserved pushes, also way too many WWF "rejects" (Bulldog, Typhoon, Sid, Roma) getting bigger spots than more deserving homegrown guys (Blondes, Shane, Cactus) at least there were Sting, Vader, Blondes, Cactus & Steamboat who still ruled & gave their best most of the time I'll give you the rest, but having first seen Sid as a Skyscraper and then with the Horsemen before he left for WWF the first time, Sid always seemed like a WCW guy to me up until his second run with WWF. This. I always associate Sid with NWA/WCW. Also, he was the god damn master and ruler of the world. Its hard to hate Sid regardless of where he was, and regardless of where he lacked in his pro wrestling game. The guy was all aura. Awesome, bad ass aura. I also don't really see Davey Boy as a "WWF reject". I think he benefited from a change of scenery. I think they could have done better in booking Bulldog vs Vader to be honest. They made Bulldog look like a legit threat only to stomp that out immediately. I remember Vader going for one of his running splashes in the corner and Bulldog caught him in mid air, spun him around, and hit his powerslam. Davey looked like an absolute world class boss when he did that. There was also Rick Rude who was putting in some killer heel work during that time. Austin and Pillman were also solid gold at the time and deserved more. The one thing I wish we got more of in WCW at that time was Muta. I'd have put the big gold on him at the time if he could have shown up more often. Face Flair and the face Horsemen of the time were hot garbage though, as was Fifi. I can't even comprehend why they tried to push that mess. I wouldn't have bothered with a Horsemen group in 93. I can't really see a Horsemen group where someone well skilled and deserving of a top spot doesn't get held back by being in Flair's shadow. I think I would have actually gone full blood feud between Arn and Flair at the time rather than having the one match in 94. Maybe have a big non-title feud between Arn/Larry and Flair/Steamboat. Overall what I'd have done. Vader as the untouchable bad ass world champion monster. Finally falls to Sting halfway through 93, transition to either Sting vs Rude or Sting vs Muta as the main title feud while Vader turns his attention to someone else for a non-title feud.. Perhaps Double A recruits him to help him take out Flair. The Hollywood Blondes are your tag champs. Not sure who you'd put them against. Try to bring back the Steiners from their cup of coffee up north asap? Have the Nastys job to them? I'd go with Dustin Rhodes vs Lord Steven Regal as your US title feud for much of the year. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2014 10:11:54 GMT -5
Don't forget Orndorff, who was doing some solid work in '93 as well, and was one of the guys who was actually dependable to get a response from the crowd with the "Paula" chants. Then again, maybe they should have just matched him up with Roma earlier for the Pretty Wonderful team. They might not have had a ton of chemistry but they were a lot better than Arn/Roma.
Another booking fantasy for Orndorff I always had:
When Flair comes back in 1993, restart the Horsemen with Flair, Arn, Ole... and bring in Orndorff as the 4th member. With Flair kinda going babyface and Orndorff full on heel, this would produce some interesting clashes of ego. Over the weeks, Arn starts siding with Orndorff, feeling like Flair is becoming a goody-two-shoes. Finally this results in Orndorff attacking Flair and Arn coming to his best friends' rescue. This sets up a big 6-man match at the next CATC with Flair/Arn/Ole vs. Orndorff/Austin/Pillman. During the match, Arn and Ole double cross Flair and join with Orndorff and the Blondes. Now, you have a full on babyface Flair vs. 4 Horsemen 1993: Paul Orndorff, Arn Anderson, Steve Austin, Brian Pillman.
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Post by James Fabiano on Oct 18, 2014 13:35:03 GMT -5
2. The crowds are awful, sometimes infuriatingly. WCW had a lot of great workers in '93, but some matches felt slow and boring because the crowd just sat on their hands. One match in particular had Steamboat and Orndorff facing off for the TV belt. I thought it was a great match, but I heard people in the crowd chanting "boring". I'm thinking... why do you come to a wrestling show and chant "boring" when you've got two guys the caliber of Steamboat and Orndorff working hard to put on a good match? They were waiting for Scorpio or Simmons to come out so they could chant "Whoomp there it is" (seriously, this really happened). This is another area where the Center Stage tapings were an improvement over the PPVs, because you could count on things like that and Scott Hudson and his crew doing their sarcastic Tex Slazenger Fan Club routine. |
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Post by Clawley Race on Oct 18, 2014 14:44:41 GMT -5
I disliked Jesse and JR even more. When Jesse would joke or anything Ross just looked/sounded upset & frustrated with Jesse not putting over the sport.
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Post by JTG Fan on Oct 18, 2014 14:50:50 GMT -5
I feel like the BattleBowl show sums up WCW 1993 as a whole. Disjointed, horrendously boring, and filled with dudes who had no business being featured prominently. Charlie Norris, Erik Watts, The Shockmaster, The Kongs, The Coles, The Equalizer, etc.
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Oct 19, 2014 4:22:24 GMT -5
I loved the Battle Bowl, even if it looked awkward. I liked the idea of random teams and I'd wish that the WWE would do some kind of random tournament for the tag belts, just to shake things up.
The Horseman thing always bugged me, because it could have been so much better than it was. Roma was talented and a tag team specialist, but he didn't get a proper buildup to build his credibility. Almost every other Horseman in history started to build up a reputation in WCW before they were selected, but I think Roma was the only one who joined out of the blue, which didn't do him any favors.
I remember the thing with the Shockmaster. They were booked into a corner after his debut and decided to go through with it, even doing vignettes of him being a clumsy oaf at a dinner table. Once that match was over, he was pretty much done.
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Post by 2CSultan on Oct 19, 2014 21:53:52 GMT -5
You didn't even mention the extremely elaborate/crappy PPV video promos for Super Brawl and Beach Blast.
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Post by cabbageboy on Oct 19, 2014 22:13:36 GMT -5
The irony of that SuperBrawl having the White Castle of Fear is that everyone know thinks of that PPV due to that cheesy video, but the PPV itself was brilliant (Vader/Sting, Benoit/Scorpio, RnRs vs. Bodies SMW tag action, Cactus/Orndorff).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 11:10:59 GMT -5
The irony of that SuperBrawl having the White Castle of Fear is that everyone know thinks of that PPV due to that cheesy video, but the PPV itself was brilliant (Vader/Sting, Benoit/Scorpio, RnRs vs. Bodies SMW tag action, Cactus/Orndorff). You're right. SuperBrawl III was probably the best show of the year, although StarrCade '93 has always been a favorite of mine too, and I felt it ended really strong with the Flair/Vader match. |
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DjZonk
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Post by DjZonk on Oct 20, 2014 12:06:09 GMT -5
I disliked Jesse and JR even more. When Jesse would joke or anything Ross just looked/sounded upset & frustrated with Jesse not putting over the sport. Jesse spoke about this in his RF shoot. JR was pissed that Jesse was earning much more money than him. |
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Post by somsta on Oct 20, 2014 12:13:41 GMT -5
I disliked Jesse and JR even more. When Jesse would joke or anything Ross just looked/sounded upset & frustrated with Jesse not putting over the sport. Jesse spoke about this in his RF shoot. JR was pissed that Jesse was earning much more money than him. JR has discussed it to and taken the blame for their problems. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 12:25:37 GMT -5
The irony of that SuperBrawl having the White Castle of Fear is that everyone know thinks of that PPV due to that cheesy video, but the PPV itself was brilliant (Vader/Sting, Benoit/Scorpio, RnRs vs. Bodies SMW tag action, Cactus/Orndorff). As much as I love the PPV, I remember it as the show where the crowd shit on Erik Watts and cheer the Blondes (Austin in particular) in the opening match. And then Watts tags in Marcus/Buff Bagwell and the fans begin cheering Baggers. Something about it is hilarious, 'we like everyone except you, loser!' It's also the PPV with Johnny B. Badd doing hype talk inbetween matches isn't it... What a show! |
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Post by ronnie2hotty on Oct 22, 2014 8:00:37 GMT -5
Even with all the complaints stated in the original post, the PPV's and Clashes of 1993 make that year seem way better than it really was. Many of the times the PPV's were just so much better than what the TV product was of the time.
I don't really think the problem was something that could be pinpointed by one certain issue. There was just a lot of really bad things happening:
- the commentary team wasn't good,
- Erik Watts was getting pushed,
- those really dumb video packages (White Castle of Fear, Beach Blast, Lost in Cleveland, etc.),
- The Shockmaster,
- the NWA title randomly referred to as the WCW International Heavyweight title without any explanation,
- pushes of several really green lower card guys: Ice Train, the Cole Twins, Yoshi Kwan, Charlie Norris, Thunder and Lightning, Maxx Payne, Van Hammer, Johnny Gunn
- there were a bunch of guys who would go on to do good-to-great things in wrestling but were all too inexperienced to positively contribute a whole lot: Diamond Dallas Page, Harlem Heat, Tez Slazenger and Shangai Pierce, Johnny B. Badd, Marcus Alexander Bagwell
- the failed Horseman experiment
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 9:12:00 GMT -5
Even with all the complaints stated in the original post, the PPV's and Clashes of 1993 make that year seem way better than it really was. Many of the times the PPV's were just so much better than what the TV product was of the time. I don't really think the problem was something that could be pinpointed by one certain issue. There was just a lot of really bad things happening: - the commentary team wasn't good, - Erik Watts was getting pushed, - those really dumb video packages (White Castle of Fear, Beach Blast, Lost in Cleveland, etc.), - The Shockmaster, - the NWA title randomly referred to as the WCW International Heavyweight title without any explanation, - pushes of several really green lower card guys: Ice Train, the Cole Twins, Yoshi Kwan, Charlie Norris, Thunder and Lightning, Maxx Payne, Van Hammer, Johnny Gunn - there were a bunch of guys who would go on to do good-to-great things in wrestling but were all too inexperienced to positively contribute a whole lot: Diamond Dallas Page, Harlem Heat, Tez Slazenger and Shangai Pierce, Johnny B. Badd, Marcus Alexander Bagwell - the failed Horseman experiment Don't forget the Colossal Kongs, King Kong and Awesome Kong, who were by the way no relation to King Dong and Awesome Dong, the Ding Dongs. |
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Boo!
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Post by Boo! on Oct 22, 2014 11:26:13 GMT -5
Don't forget the Colossal Kongs, King Kong and Awesome Kong, who were by the way no relation to King Dong and Awesome Dong, the Ding Dongs.  |
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