chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Oct 21, 2014 17:56:09 GMT -5
Filming it IS the threat of piracy. Making a duplicate of someone's work without their permission is the very definition of piracy. Should Rock have just stopped the show entirely at the detriment of the other comedians who were to go on stage after him or hold the audience hostage until the entitled prick in question decided to be a decent human being? Rock handled the situation the absolute best, and most unfortunate, way he possibly could. Again with the piracy. Maybe you guys can please stop dog-piling on me and explain how this can possibly constitute a piracy issue? For your own words, this is some free show, a gift for people, which is why Rock was right for leaving, supposedly. Meaning he's not making any money on this and is not devaluing either his stand up or the value of the club itself. Also, as stand up goes, it really has less to do with jokes with Rock, and more with the rhythm of the stand up and going from point to point to point. Okay, new material, but are you trying to tell me that, when it comes to a stand up routine, what Chris rock was going to do in that club would be, point for point, the same exact performance from an HBO special or a new CD? No, it wouldn't. I wouldn't even doubt half of the jokes would have been replaced with better material, or something more topical by then. Or pretty much all of them. If the entire premise of this was training/getting back in the grove for him, this should affect jack and shit on him and his brand/product/etc. And you wanna compare that to piracy? Please! Read this slowly. We'll do this step by step. The show was a $5.00 show that Rock was making a surprise appearance at. As a comedian, his performing comedy is his trade and how he makes his money. He releases comedy albums and stand-up specials, as well as tours with new material. Rock was performing in a venue at a show with a strict "no filming" policy. Rock was doing this so he could test out new material on essentially a perfect focus group before he knew it was proper to ask money for it. Rock has the right to his writing, performance and intellectual property. A person was filming his performance, in a location and environment where filming is forbidden, is making an illegal copy of Rock's performance/writing/intellectual property. This illegal copy is, by the very definition of the word, a pirated copy. Thus, it's piracy. The distribution of that WOULD devalue his new material because, once it's seen online (and it would be picked up and shared all over because it's Chris f***ing Rock making a surprise appearance at a comedy club and doing new material for the first time in years) he can no longer sell the opportunity to witness it as "new material." Rock had already asked another person to stop filming, who obliged. Another person continuing to film in spite of that, and another warning from Rock, shows this was a problem and Rock handled it in the best way possible for himself and his art. I don't think you know very much about comedy, the entertainment industry or respect for intellectual property, so you might want to read a little more on the subject before continuing this.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Oct 21, 2014 17:57:19 GMT -5
Are you saying he had every right to film anyway just because The Shield didn't come out to drag him into the parking lot and powerbomb him into a dumpster...? I don't understand how that makes what he's doing acceptable. Again, was what that person did against the rules of the club or not? Was he expressly forbidden to do that when he got his ticket, or when he got to the building, for that show? Not even just for Chris Rock, but for the entire segment, was it something the MC warned the crowd about before it started. To borrow from a previous post, context is important. So, you DIDN'T read the thread as this has all been answered.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 17:58:18 GMT -5
Are you saying he had every right to film anyway just because The Shield didn't come out to drag him into the parking lot and powerbomb him into a dumpster...? I don't understand how that makes what he's doing acceptable. Again, was what that person did against the rules of the club or not? Was he expressly forbidden to do that when he got his ticket, or when he got to the building, for that show? Not even just for Chris Rock, but for the entire segment, was it something the MC warned the crowd about before it started. To borrow from a previous post, context is important. ...as previous posts have also said, the context is you aren't allowed to record anything during live performances like that. If you didn't know, Chris Rock told them not to. A few people did anyway. Chris Rock (rightfully) left. One of the guys who did left anyway because the crowd (also rightfully) got pissed at the guy for being the main reason why Chris Rock didn't perform. Really, if you think this is an affront or something, maybe you should go to a few comedy clubs and live performances and whip out a big-ass iPad or something if and when this happens. You don't like it, but that's the way it is.
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Post by Michael Coello on Oct 21, 2014 18:02:10 GMT -5
Again, was what that person did against the rules of the club or not? Was he expressly forbidden to do that when he got his ticket, or when he got to the building, for that show? Not even just for Chris Rock, but for the entire segment, was it something the MC warned the crowd about before it started. To borrow from a previous post, context is important. So, you DIDN'T read the thread as this has all been answered. Get off the high horse. I read the OP, and you got some stuff about the technology age, and what comedy is as an art form, but not one sentance that says "Well, UCB Ny expressly forbids the use of cell phones during a performance" in black and white. I even asked later on the first page if the person was under some obligation to stop filming. I got told they weren't sure, since they did it somewhere else, but not sure about NY. After a bunch of character assassination followed, I asked AGAIN, and ONLY THEN did I get told it was. If anyone didn't read, it was you.
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lionheart21
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Post by lionheart21 on Oct 21, 2014 18:02:58 GMT -5
It was absolutely the correct way to handle things. Guy was there to work on some unreleased bits. Douchebag wanted to film. Asked the guy not to. Entitled prick wouldn't stop so he bailed. No violence, no scene. Said f this and left. What you think Mr. Bigger and Blacker HBO Special guy is him 24/7? Come on! Well, then I hope no one takes his picture or films when he's ready, or else he'll bail on his next TV special. Or cough, he might call security! I can't believe people defending him. This is some old Axl Rose type ego shit, man! No, pulling some Axl Rose ego shit would be if Rock bailed the moment he saw a camera filming him. Fact of the matter is, Rock tried to handle the situation by asking the fan to please not film his work, and when the fan refused to comply, he left.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
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Post by chazraps on Oct 21, 2014 18:04:32 GMT -5
So, you DIDN'T read the thread as this has all been answered. Get off the high horse. I read the OP, and you got some stuff about the technology age, and what comedy is as an art form, but not one sentance that says "Well, UCB Ny expressly forbids the use of cell phones during a performance" in black and white. I even asked later on the first page if the person was under some obligation to stop filming. I got told they weren't sure, since they did it somewhere else, but not sure about NY. After a bunch of character assassination followed, I asked AGAIN, and ONLY THEN did I get told it was. If anyone didn't read, it was you. Cut the holes in your white hood a little bit bigger and re-read this thread. When asked, it was confirmed that before each and every show, UCB NY announces to the audience that recording of any kind is expressly forbidden. If you're going to be a part of a discussion, you're going to have to read more than your own posts.
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lionheart21
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Post by lionheart21 on Oct 21, 2014 18:05:38 GMT -5
Yeah, this thread ain't lasting much longer.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Oct 21, 2014 18:06:50 GMT -5
Get off the high horse. I read the OP, and you got some stuff about the technology age, and what comedy is as an art form, but not one sentance that says "Well, UCB Ny expressly forbids the use of cell phones during a performance" in black and white. I even asked later on the first page if the person was under some obligation to stop filming. I got told they weren't sure, since they did it somewhere else, but not sure about NY. After a bunch of character assassination followed, I asked AGAIN, and ONLY THEN did I get told it was. If anyone didn't read, it was you. Cut the holes in your white hood a little bit bigger and re-read this thread. When asked, it was confirmed that before each and every show, UCB NY announces to the audience that recording of any kind is expressly forbidden. If you're going to be a part of a discussion, you're going to have to read more than your own posts. I am going to make this clear, because while you are attacking someone for not reading the thread, you were seemingly guilty of the same thing. When people were asked to stop flaming, this applied to you, and continues to. At no point in making your point is calling someone a Klansman called for or necessary.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 18:09:51 GMT -5
Jeez, this escalated into some pretty harsh insults.
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Post by bluemeii on Oct 21, 2014 18:09:53 GMT -5
Seriously though it was spelled out why this is piracy. The sign on the door about filming is a moot point. I would imagine if a company owns a series of clubs and it is expressly forbidden in one it would be in all.
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Post by Kash Flagg on Oct 21, 2014 18:11:24 GMT -5
Chazraps got a week off. I wasn't kidding about cutting out the flaming.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 18:12:43 GMT -5
Seriously though it was spelled out why this is piracy. The sign on the door about filming is a moot point. I would imagine if a company owns a series of clubs and it is expressly forbidden in one it would be in all. Pretty much this. If they don't want stuff there to be filmed, then it shouldn't be.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 18:12:52 GMT -5
I mean...do we really have to be TOLD to not record theatrical performances? Is that really the crux of the arguement? I don't really think it is.
Its fairly common knowledge that recording devices are to be used for live performances.
Every show I've been to ever has made the announcement. Even if it weren't simple common sense or common amongst most any performances the point is moot because....
Rock told the guy he'd prefer not to be recorded! There's your "official announcement." Then someone kept doing it anyway.
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Post by tigermaskxxxvii on Oct 21, 2014 18:14:15 GMT -5
People tend to forget that comedy shows like the one at UCB tend to be just as much of a rehearsal/workshop as it is a performance. It's not like with music where your band gets to work out shit in the garage and then perform it at the gig (it's not all Rupert Pupkin recording his act in the basement a la The King of Comedy). This clip of Sarah Silverman from the documentary I Am Comic (taken from the film's youtube page, so it's all kosher!) basically sums up the whole problem with comics' sets being bootlegged, especially when it's shit their working out for their act/an album/a TV special. (1:20 in. Some language) It was absolutely the correct way to handle things. Guy was there to work on some unreleased bits. Douchebag wanted to film. Asked the guy not to. Entitled prick wouldn't stop so he bailed. No violence, no scene. Said f this and left. What you think Mr. Bigger and Blacker HBO Special guy is him 24/7? Come on! Well, then I hope no one takes his picture or films when he's ready, or else he'll bail on his next TV special. Or cough, he might call security! I can't believe people defending him. This is some old Axl Rose type ego shit, man! "Axl Rose type ego shit"? Axl Rose responded to someone bootlegging concert footage by dropkicking both the camera man and an innocent bystander in the head, then walked out of the concert venue thus ending a Guns 'n' Roses concert that people paid good money to see much earlier than expected. Chris Rock showed up as an unadvertised comedian on a show to try out some new material (unlike the GnR show where they were most likely playing already released material, still doesn't give the bootlegger the right to pirate the show or Axl to attack him though), asked the guy to stop, he didn't, Chris decided it wasn't worth the grief the guy gave him, and left the stage without dropkicking anyone in the head. Kind of an off base comparison.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Oct 21, 2014 18:14:33 GMT -5
I mean...do we really have to be TOLD to not record theatrical performances? Is that really the crux of the arguement? I don't really think it is. Its fairly common knowledge that recording devices are to be used for live performances. Every show I've been to ever has made the announcement. Even if it weren't simple common sense or common amongst most any performances the point is moot because.... Rock told the guy he'd prefer not to be recorded! There's your "official announcement." Then someone kept doing it anyway. Agreed, and really, I am sure there was a sign or otherwise forewarning.
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Post by Michael Coello on Oct 21, 2014 18:27:06 GMT -5
I mean...do we really have to be TOLD to not record theatrical performances? YES! It needs to be spelled out! It's why all those commercials for cars need notices that the car that jumped through a ring of fire, and dives under flaming sharks was not real, the driver is a trainer one, and the car is not actually able to go underwater and DO NOT ATTEMPT! Cause, as mentioned and proved, someone is going to attempt this unless expressly told this is against the rules. Is it? I mean, I've been to a few concerts and plays and performances, and people have had phones out, recording, and it was not an issue. And I did have to ask a few times what the big issue was. I remember Nikki Six from Motley Crue talking about this the other day, and how this is a sign of the change of concerts, and people using that phone to do this new experience, and how he was initially upset that it seemed like they weren't paying attention, but conclusion this was the new way it has turned into. Yeah, okay, and unless it's expressly stated, he could have responded back with this. I'm not even trying to be an ass, I honestly had no idea this was such a taboo at these.
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Brood Lone Wolf Funker
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Post by Brood Lone Wolf Funker on Oct 21, 2014 18:27:16 GMT -5
I mean...do we really have to be TOLD to not record theatrical performances? Is that really the crux of the arguement? I don't really think it is. Its fairly common knowledge that recording devices are to be used for live performances. Every show I've been to ever has made the announcement. Even if it weren't simple common sense or common amongst most any performances the point is moot because.... Rock told the guy he'd prefer not to be recorded! There's your "official announcement." Then someone kept doing it anyway. Heck even certain indies have a no recording policy to stop bootlegs from being put out. This has been an issue for a long time now hell What's Happening even had an episode dedicated to Rerun getting busted for taping a Doobie brothers concert. I think what Chris Rock did was highly justifiable and no it wasn't Axel Rose ego shit it was a justifiable response to someone not obeying the rules plain and simple
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Post by weaselboy on Oct 21, 2014 18:33:43 GMT -5
I will never understand this obsession with recording and taking photos of every single thing. I've been to concerts and live events where people film the entire thing through a phone. I may take a couple of photos but I'd always rather watch the thing than relive it through a video Totally agree, whatever happened to remembering things? You know with your memory and a sprinkle of your imagination? The best gig I ever saw is still etched in my memory and tinted with a warm nostalgic glow. Everyone looks better and everything sounds clearer and there's something poetic in how I can't quite fully remember every detail leaving some parts to eternal mystery and other parts to be filled in by fantasy. Whereas I can imagine had I filmed it all on a tiny camera phone screen, the crushing mundanity of reality would have spoiled it. Stop filming the moment and start living in it.
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Post by bluemeii on Oct 21, 2014 18:34:33 GMT -5
Why are the goalposts moving. Why is this piracy? Then explained.
Now it's about a f***ing sign?
Or is this just argument for arguments sake now?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 18:38:20 GMT -5
I mean...do we really have to be TOLD to not record theatrical performances? YES! It needs to be spelled out! It's why all those commercials for cars need notices that the car that jumped through a ring of fire, and dives under flaming sharks was not real, the driver is a trainer one, and the car is not actually able to go underwater and DO NOT ATTEMPT! Cause, as mentioned and proved, someone is going to attempt this unless expressly told this is against the rules. Is it? I mean, I've been to a few concerts and plays and performances, and people have had phones out, recording, and it was not an issue. And I did have to ask a few times what the big issue was. I remember Nikki Six from Motley Crue talking about this the other day, and how this is a sign of the change of concerts, and people using that phone to do this new experience, and how he was initially upset that it seemed like they weren't paying attention, but conclusion this was the new way it has turned into. Yeah, okay, and unless it's expressly stated, he could have responded back with this. I'm not even trying to be an ass, I honestly had no idea this was such a taboo at these. Yeah, but Chris Rock did tell people and they still didn't listen. So they could have had flashing neon lights and made people sign a death-pact stating they won't record it and they still would have tried. Like people with user agreements on iTunes. But yeah - it is a pretty big taboo in most artistic circles, but especially live theater/performance. I think with musical concerts the crowd is usually too big and rawkus to even try to get to the person recording with their phone, but when its a fairly small, intimate setting like a small theater its much more distracting. I've been to at least 2-3 plays a year for the better part of a decade and I've NEVER seen anyone recording with their phones. Big, music festivals - of course yes. I mean, I know you're not trying to be contrarian for the sake of being contrarian, but you're basically arguing on behalf of the people in the crowd who were being A)Rude B)Ignoring commonly known theater mores C) Ignoring what is now known to be an explictly stated rule for THIS theater and D) Blantantly ignoring a fellow human being who asked not to be recorded. The people in the crowd who were recording seemed to be clearly in the wrong and its not up to the performer to educate adults about how to be an audience member. They're there to perform, not to discipline (probably unintentionally) disrespectful people.
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