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Post by jimmyjames on Oct 21, 2014 23:31:04 GMT -5
I think it's as simple as there's a lot of great television shows on Monday Night now, and people who have to make a choice between them and Raw, are choosing the other shows, like I did. Even recording with my DVR, I picked Gotham, Sleepy Hollow, The Blacklist, The Millers, and American Dad over Raw, and when 2 Broke Girls comes back next week, I'm recording that. While people can and are watching more shows On DEmand and recording them, I think more are picking scripted shows and MNF over Raw, especially with how bad, stale, and predictable it's become.
I only saw the first half hour and the last half hour of Raw, and honestly, when I saw the ring entrances for the main event I thought it was a recap from lat week. Same goes for the opening. If WWE isn't going to put any effort into creating something new, exciting, and entertaining, why should wrestling fans support them.
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Post by Gopher Mod on Oct 21, 2014 23:46:46 GMT -5
I hate to nitpick, but if the ratings are right then this RAW was the third (maybe fourth) lowest viewed episode of the year- May 26th is lowest (2.62), then two weeks ago on October 6th (2.63). It's a tossup between September 22nd's episode and this one for the next lowest (9/22 had a 2.68, this one will be around a 2.68-2.69).
But, I must digress- everything since SummerSlam has been pretty much "must-miss TV" for me. The champion only showing up a handful of times, a heavy air of stagnation in the upper echelons (save The SHIELD), and working a good number of Mondays on a personal level has waned my interest greatly. If it weren't for my father telling me what happened and the internet being about, I'd be completely out of the loop and I wouldn't really care whatsoever until the Rumble.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,351
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Oct 21, 2014 23:47:17 GMT -5
So....what would fix it? I mean, honestly?
Personally, I would love to be in charge to try something completely different, but kind of NWA-styled old school at the same time:
I have stopped watching wrestling altogether in the past year. I will catch the occasional segment online, but for the first time since WM2 I don't watch any wrestling and I don't particularly miss it. I point this out only to preface that my opinions and ideas I am about to post are quite possibly outdated or incomplete, so take it with a grain of salt.
First, one of the real problems that the WWE has is an industry-wide problem, and that is that the WWE has pretty much decimated the indie wrestling market. Sure, there are still quality feds that can be entertaining and even profitable, but the ability for several hundred pro wrestlers to make a decent living has gone to hell. This leaves fewer veterans helping newbies develop. This leaves fewer people able to afford struggling to learn how to do everything involved in the job. This leaves fewer opportunities to work in front of a number of crowds to learn how to adequately work them. The WWE is in a position to change that to a degree, and here's how I would love for them to try:
A) Either identify 4-6 indie promoters that they can trust and can work with (maybe Harley Race?) or, more likely, establish a handful of WWE-affiliated regional promotions led by current (or likely future) WWE employees with experience in running promotions (Lawler, Booker, Flair, Dusty). Place each of them in charge of a small circuit promotion near traditional hot spots for wrestling (Lawler in Memphis, Booker in Texas, Flair in NC, Dusty in Fl).
B) Change the talent structure for the WWE overall into four categories:
1) Full-time touring talents - These are your top stars and ones whose contracts are relatively unchanged.
2) Full-time regional talents - These are midcard talents who will headline the regional promotions. These talents will appear on WWE TV whenever Raw and SD are nearby, but otherwise their touring demands will be much lower. As a result, these talents would be paid less than they might be now, but more of them can be gainfully employed during this time.
3) Developmental talents - These workers will be confined completely to the regional circuit. You would need to pay them enough to live off of, but this does not require too much in comparison to a current full time WWE deal.
4) Per appearance talents - This would be former stars that fill in spots for both the regional promotions and the main roster shows. People looking to earn their way back onto the roster can get a small commitment from the WWE in exchange for someone that has experience, can fill any short term need, and is free when not used. Current WWE agents can also be used in this manner, trying to "make it to the big time one last time".
C) Change the basic format. If Vince is dead serious about giving Kevin Dunn lifetime employment, simply leave him on the Board of Directors. He needs to go as far as the production end goes. Either that, or have him transition away from producing the current wrestling shows and only produce the materials for the WWE Network (I don't have the network, but if it their programming is anything like their DVD collections it probably is fine enough. Dunn produced those too, didn't he?) They could, and maybe even should, do a transition where he stays in charge of Raw while someone else is brought in to start producing SD.
I mean, seriously. It can't be that hard to make matches seem important. Every time I watch UFC they make every match seem important, when in the grand scheme of things I imagine that very few matches actually are. This is also something that pro boxing still does better than pro wrestling as well.
I do think that they should limit each talent to wrestling once a week on TV as well. Why should people get worked up about you getting hit with a finisher if you are only inconvenienced for a few moments? Losing means you got your ass kicked. That should mean something. This would be easier if you have a larger talent pool who don't travel full time and fill in spots every week. More talents mean fewer repeated matchups and fewer spots per show to fill (especially if TV matches between Group 1 talents and the other groups lead to longer matches). An additional bonus is that while you would interact in one way or another with those you are building to a PPV match with, you actually don't have to give a lot of matches against that person away on free TV.
Another thing that I would do is use the national shows as the blow-off shows for the regional promotions. Let's say that your top feud in the NC promotion is R-Truth vs Erick Rowan (I don't know, just go with it). This might not make for an appealing PPV match, but airing a few recap segments from the regional promotion in the weeks before Raw goes to Charlotte as well as backstage interviews can make it seem like you are building up to a relatively important match for these two, and the WWE is going to give away on Raw for free! The WWE loves the WWE Universe! Don't you love them back?
Granted, it isn't perfect. It would need a lot of refinement before implementation. I just think that it could be the shake-up that is needed. Everyone acts as though wrestling got big when McMahon helped kick off Hulkamania. The truth is that it was huge before then, just in a different way. Now, it is not as big as it was before WM 1. Not all old-school ideas could work in the modern times, but I sure would like to explore to determine which ones could!
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Post by Mayonnaise on Oct 21, 2014 23:54:32 GMT -5
I hate to nitpick, but if the ratings are right then this RAW was the third (maybe fourth) lowest viewed episode of the year- May 26th is lowest (2.62), then two weeks ago on October 6th (2.63). It's a tossup between September 22nd's episode and this one for the next lowest (9/22 had a 2.68, this one will be around a 2.68-2.69). But, I must digress- everything since SummerSlam has been pretty much "must-miss TV" for me. The champion only showing up a handful of times, a heavy air of stagnation in the upper echelons (save The SHIELD), and working a good number of Mondays on a personal level has waned my interest greatly. If it weren't for my father telling me what happened and the internet being about, I'd be completely out of the loop and I wouldn't really care whatsoever until the Rumble. The number of viewers is different than the actual rating which will change based on how many people are watching cable, like the Oct. 6 show has a lower rating but actually had more viewers (3.79million v. Monday's 3.69million). So this will be 3rd or 4th lowest rated but second lowest watched.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 23:55:36 GMT -5
I think if nothing else it'd improve a lot if they'd just learn how to tell actual stories and start having some actual variety. Every single week it's...
1. AJ and Paige mess with each other. 2. Rusev taunts America, someone comes out to defend it. 3. Cena says it doesn't matter if you love him or you hate him. 4. Triple H cuts a promo. 5. Rollins cuts a promo. 6. Bad stand-up. 7. Miz against a midcard champion. 8. A six-man tag usually featuring the Usos. 9. Kane interferes in something. 10. $9.99. 11. Endless recaps. 12. A match, usually the main event, ends in a DQ. 13. A midcard champion loses. 14. Bad hijinks while the commentators scream about how much fun we're having while sounding like they wish somebody would put them down. 15. Bella twins melodrama. 16. Vague directionless Wyatt promos. 17. JBL screams about how Swagger and Henry let down America. 18. WWE boasts about how charitable it is. 19. WWE boasts about how successful it is. 20. $9.99 some more.
It's been that exact same checklist for months upon months, and it's just so damn exhausting. I could churn out more interesting, varied shows without blowing anything huge with fifteen minutes of writing.
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Post by Gopher Mod on Oct 22, 2014 0:08:07 GMT -5
I hate to nitpick, but if the ratings are right then this RAW was the third (maybe fourth) lowest viewed episode of the year- May 26th is lowest (2.62), then two weeks ago on October 6th (2.63). It's a tossup between September 22nd's episode and this one for the next lowest (9/22 had a 2.68, this one will be around a 2.68-2.69). But, I must digress- everything since SummerSlam has been pretty much "must-miss TV" for me. The champion only showing up a handful of times, a heavy air of stagnation in the upper echelons (save The SHIELD), and working a good number of Mondays on a personal level has waned my interest greatly. If it weren't for my father telling me what happened and the internet being about, I'd be completely out of the loop and I wouldn't really care whatsoever until the Rumble. The number of viewers is different than the actual rating which will change based on how many people are watching cable, like the Oct. 6 show has a lower rating but actually had more viewers (3.79million v. Monday's 3.69million). So this will be 3rd or 4th lowest rated but second lowest watched. ...dagnabbit. That was something I kinda glossed over, though I'm a fair bit surprised that the Nielsen ratings fluctuated that much in two weeks time. Could it be factoring in the new (Nielsen) numbers to get to a 1.0 rating then?
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Dean-o
Grimlock
Haha we're having fun Maggle!
Posts: 13,865
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Post by Dean-o on Oct 22, 2014 0:35:57 GMT -5
The worst part about all this is, let's say the WWE panics and actually attempts to grow a pair, take a chance, and freshen up their product, the hell with their company image and stockholders. I fear that because they are so out of touch with not only pop culture but also what their paying fans want to see, that the changes made will simply make their product worse then it already is.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 0:36:46 GMT -5
Full-time main eventers:
Cena Orton Kane Rollins Ambrose
2 of these are established stars that have been around FOR.EV.ER and have done everything there is to do (well, almost everything, there's a big one that won't ever happen). 1 has been around even longer than forever, and peaked 10 years ago. 2 of them are up and comers that aren't established yet.
The roster has a lot of talent, but they are f***ed in the main event scene right now. It is riduclously weak, and add that to the total lack of creativity involved with their programs, and...what can they do?
Elevate people, right? But when they get something going, they tend to drop it like a hot potato. They got it right with the Shield guys, so many others have been destroyed by the booking.
Fans barely care about most of these guys. They don't even care that much about the main eventers. Could be a symptom of this concept of super-main eventers that wrestle 3-5 times a year and are treated like they're bigger than the product.
And the boooking. Shitty, shitty, shitty booking.
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Dean-o
Grimlock
Haha we're having fun Maggle!
Posts: 13,865
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Post by Dean-o on Oct 22, 2014 0:59:17 GMT -5
That's the main issue. They have a ton of talent in that locker room, but the majority of those people have been booked to shit. Every time you see them on Raw you just know they are losing. Sure, you can try to elevate them, but that would mean knocking off...sorry, I mean beating their top talent in the ring, and the WWE has been afraid to do that for years. Hell, The Wyatt's had to be re-introduced already because they needed Cena to plow through all 3 of them since they had this insane thought that we wouldn't take the almighty John Cena seriously anymore after his loss to Lesnar. How about the fact that 75% of your roster isn't taken seriously anymore because they swim in circles in the midcard forever?
The belts all mean nothing with the exception of the WWE title. In fact, I wouldn't even want to be champion because it seems like all they do is lose every week until the PPV which only a fraction of your audience watches anyways. How is all this making your titleholders look? Anytime a guy gets hot the WWE will do anything in their way to stop it (Bryan, Ryder, Ziggler for example) How is all this making your talent look? Why should the fans care anymore?
For God's sake, the WWE has NEVER been this heavy on rematches and feuds that never end. PPV's look identical for months at a time now. Don't they realize people have far too many options these days and get bored a lot easier?
The WWE has coasted on the status quo for far too long, and it's coming back to slowly bite them in the ass.
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Batman
Don Corleone
I am Batman.
Posts: 1,628
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Post by Batman on Oct 22, 2014 1:20:28 GMT -5
I wouldn't blame Ambrose. The ratings fall basically every time someone new first starts moving to the main event scene - it happened to Cena, it happened to Punk, it happened to Bryan, and it happened to several others and they've largely moved past it. It's probably more because they only ever elevate people when the roster's completely barren and they have no other choice. Plus, "Cena and Shield Member #__ vs. Kane and Orton" has been going on for months now, it's been the same exact show since like June.It's basically the wrestling version of Malibu Stacy with a New Hat. Malibu Cena with a different color scheme and tag team partner he doesn't get along with.
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Post by Macho Pichu on Oct 22, 2014 1:23:56 GMT -5
I didn't even watch this week myself. Apparently I wasn't the only one skipping out for a little while.
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Post by benstudd on Oct 22, 2014 1:57:43 GMT -5
If you had said this to me years ago, I would never have believed it, but I wouldn't be surprised if in a year they go below 2.0 in ratings. To think they got 8.0 in 2000.
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nate5054
Hank Scorpio
Lucky to be alive in the Chris Jericho Era
Posts: 7,009
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Post by nate5054 on Oct 22, 2014 2:07:15 GMT -5
Good, it was deserved.
My DVR screwed up right after the stupid solider rushing the ring stunt, wouldn't play past that part, and I didn't even care.
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The Sam
El Dandy
The Brainiest Sam of all
Posts: 8,423
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Post by The Sam on Oct 22, 2014 4:55:37 GMT -5
How much further will they sink before bringing Vince back to TV for no particular raisin?
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Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
Thank you, Ishmeal Loves Bayley!
Posts: 6,419
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Post by Abdullah on Oct 22, 2014 5:25:12 GMT -5
WWE has literally three booking strategies, it seems.
1) For the midcard guys, it's needlessly long or otherwise pointless repeat matches that actually lessens their popularity because fans get tired of the same combinations with no sense of story.
2) The divas, like AJ/Paige, might get to interact a bit outside of the ring with quick post-match antics but the story sucks and doesn't actually mean anything; only with the intention of filling more air time. Before AJ returned, Alicia filled this spot with her tantrums.
3) If you're really lucky, like a Rusev or a main-eventer, you get to cut roughly the same spot every week and wrestle the exact same main event. See: Cena, Rollins, Orton/Kane.
It's a wonder the rating is even that high.
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Post by Nickybojelais on Oct 22, 2014 5:30:03 GMT -5
WWE gives you the mouthwatering prospect of Orton and Cena finally getting their hands on each other in one of the most highly anticipated matchups in history and you don't bother to tune in. What is wrong with you people?
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Post by Ryushinku on Oct 22, 2014 6:27:50 GMT -5
On a creative level at least, that post-Summerslam pre-Rumble winter is always a harsh cold one. The most aimless time of the year, particularly since Survivor Series slipped hard from its "big 4" status.
It's only gonna get worse, folks.
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Post by Gremlin on Oct 22, 2014 6:31:04 GMT -5
2 of these are established stars that have been around FOR.EV.ER and have done everything there is to do (well, almost everything, there's a big one that won't ever happen) Orton and Cena Live Sex Celebration?
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Post by audiencewatching on Oct 22, 2014 6:57:26 GMT -5
Raw is Bore.
Same old crap every week.
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Post by Adam Black on Oct 22, 2014 7:12:52 GMT -5
in my country they show the replays the day before they play the new Raw episode......it's hard to tell the difference.
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