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Post by Andrew is Good on Oct 28, 2014 19:33:29 GMT -5
But if it's the case the majority of the time, then wouldn't you assume it will be the case in those little times as well. See, a number of things have come up and the one common thread is Wobbuffet logic. The pokemon Wobbuffet is based on a Japanese comedian Sanpei Hayashiya, whose catchphrase in english translates to, "that's the way it is ma'am". We just want to be cool with the status quo, that this is acceptable, because some of the time, I just want to randomly talk to some lady walking down the street. This video is challenging the status quo, and just like Wobbuffet, we need to counter against the status quo and actually try to change things so that half the population doesn't get harassed while walking the streets (that last past just came to me, I'm quite proud of that). There does need to be a cultural change in this attitude of people not giving a f***. Thank you for that interesting history of a Pokemon that nobody asked about. There is never a conversation where pokemon isn't relevant.
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WWEedy
Don Corleone
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Post by WWEedy on Oct 28, 2014 19:38:27 GMT -5
Though is it the majority of the time? It is in this video and it very well may be in life but from personal experience and from the experience of those around me it isn't. The media and the internet is more prevalent than ever these days and it's easier for those being wronged, and it is wrong and I am in no way excusing actual harassment here, to have their voices heard. It doesn't mean they're in the majority, it just means that they are the loud minority. I think things need to change too, actual cases of harassment should definitely be put an end to but why should the people who want to be kind, share their happiness, say hello have to be silence just because you don't like it? Isn't that harassing them? From the women I've talked to, harassment like that is pretty normal. And like, if those people do want to share their happiness, that's fine, but they should also understand that a lot of people are harassing them, and even if they have the best of intentions, it might not be welcome because the person they maybe saying "hello" to has had a lot of bad experience with people like that. So why not just let them be alone? I get that but that's their problem. The world shouldn't be jaded because you (the general you, not you) are. And the countless suicides stopped by kind strangers, the every man on the street? I'd rather say hello, or good morning or have a good one. Be kind and try and put a smile on every face I see.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Oct 28, 2014 19:39:29 GMT -5
From the women I've talked to, harassment like that is pretty normal. And like, if those people do want to share their happiness, that's fine, but they should also understand that a lot of people are harassing them, and even if they have the best of intentions, it might not be welcome because the person they maybe saying "hello" to has had a lot of bad experience with people like that. So why not just let them be alone? I get that but that's their problem. The world shouldn't be jaded because you (the general you, not you) are. And the countless suicides stopped by kind strangers, the every man on the street? I'd rather say hello, or good morning or have a good one. Be kind and try and put a smile on every face I see. But it shouldn't be there problem. They shouldn't have to live in a world where they always feel harassed. And people shouldn't have to add to that, even if there intentions are good.
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WWEedy
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,320
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Post by WWEedy on Oct 28, 2014 19:45:47 GMT -5
I get that but that's their problem. The world shouldn't be jaded because you (the general you, not you) are. And the countless suicides stopped by kind strangers, the every man on the street? I'd rather say hello, or good morning or have a good one. Be kind and try and put a smile on every face I see. But it shouldn't be there problem. They shouldn't have to live in a world where they always feel harassed. And people shouldn't have to add to that, even if there intentions are good. And people shouldn't have to walk on eggshells and bite their tongue in case they hurt someones feelings in a situation where they are being nice. Feelings get hurt, that's life. There's no real compromise to this, I don't agree that people should have to be harassed but there is a huge difference between being harassed and feeling that way and I will never agree that in the situation of greeting someone kindly, whether they feel so or not, that it is harassment or wrong. Also thank you for the Pokemon fact, I didn't know that before and it's actually really cool. Wobbuffet is one of my favorites.
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Post by Widow's Peak on Oct 28, 2014 20:00:01 GMT -5
Taking harassment out of the equation, it basically boils down to people not wanting attention they didn't ask for. Most women aren't going to scream "harassment" if they are merely said hello to, but many will feel uncomfortable by unsolicited attention even if your intentions are good.
By all means be friendly, smile and be polite and all that jazz, but realize that some people just want to be left alone to go about their business and are under no obligation to return your compliments.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Oct 28, 2014 20:03:14 GMT -5
But it shouldn't be there problem. They shouldn't have to live in a world where they always feel harassed. And people shouldn't have to add to that, even if there intentions are good. And people shouldn't have to walk on eggshells and bite their tongue in case they hurt someones feelings in a situation where they are being nice. Feelings get hurt, that's life. There's no real compromise to this, I don't agree that people should have to be harassed but there is a huge difference between being harassed and feeling that way and I will never agree that in the situation of greeting someone kindly, whether they feel so or not, that it is harassment or wrong. Also thank you for the Pokemon fact, I didn't know that before and it's actually really cool. Wobbuffet is one of my favorites. But wouldn't it be nicer, and wouldn't they feel better if a person just left them alone? I think to some people that would be much more appreciated.
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J is Justice
Wade Wilson
Will now be grateful.
Hi.
Posts: 27,931
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Post by J is Justice on Oct 28, 2014 20:04:15 GMT -5
Why would you just randomly say 'God Bless' to someone? And was one of those guys a priest!?
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Oct 28, 2014 20:14:46 GMT -5
Why would you just randomly say 'God Bless' to someone? And was one of those guys a priest!? In New York ... possibly one of the people that preach on the sidewalks... or a crazy hobo that thinks he's one
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 10,989
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Post by Sparkybob on Oct 28, 2014 20:15:58 GMT -5
Why would you just randomly say 'God Bless' to someone? And was one of those guys a priest!? Elderly gentlemans say that a lot on the sidewalk.
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Post by PsychoGoatee on Oct 28, 2014 20:20:08 GMT -5
The world is a messy place, nobody is psychic, everybody has different lines, it's all wacky, there's no solution. Some people do want attention and don't mind talking to strangers, yes even sexual attention, maybe that's an outlier, but those are people that exist.
Some people get tons of attention and are found attractive and they are tired of it. Some people get literally zero of that ever in their entire life, and would love some of it. There's no magic formula for everybody being happy with it. At the end of the day, really harrassing and pressing to disrespect personal space aside, I think "cat calls" and whatnot are very very low on the list of the world's problems.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2014 20:22:13 GMT -5
All those guys are offering her dick she doesn't want. "Oh just saying 'hey beautiful' or 'have a great day' isn't harassment!"
f*** that. Of course its harassment. Those guys don't give a shit about her day beyond whether or not her day ends with their penis in or near her.
What's even more disturbing is she clearly had a "f*** off" face on her. Imagine if she smiled in the least.
"Well there are bigger problems out there."
Not if your whole day, all day, everyday is like that. Sure there are more severe problems but NOT addressing problems like these can lead to something like this becoming a more severe problem down the line.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,936
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Post by chazraps on Oct 28, 2014 20:29:42 GMT -5
...I'm sorry, when was this? At the point where a video was made title "10 hours walking in NYC as a woman" which then featured men talking to her, with many different reasons for doing so, some creepy some not, and slapping it with the harassment label. Round about then. Really makes you hope that someday men will finally have a fair representation in the media and a say in world affairs.
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 28, 2014 20:29:44 GMT -5
"Oh, my greeting you clearly because you're an attractive woman, and you being annoyed at the invasion of your privacy and the fact that you've been catcalled a million times this week already, is something that bothers you? NO IT SHOULDN'T BE." Except that's not always the case at all, in fact that wasn't the case on at least four occasions where the video was all about that being the case. Imagine all the other times that they've listed it happening where it wasn't the case either. It's also not the case when a lot of people in this thread have expressed it happening to them from people, old and young, male and female simply sharing their joy in life and being polite. Which is their right as well, no? I find it strange that so many people are willing to jump on "the cause" when the cause is simply a non-charity trying to drum up money off of the outrage of Social Justice Warriors everywhere. Your ability to speak for the experiences of women everywhere is truly breathtaking. THAT'S my point. I have seen tons of women posting this video on Facebook talking about how it spoke to them, each of them talking about the endless harassment, catcalls, unwanted greetings, and every other type of unsolicited comment they've received on a daily basis.Given the fact that they actually live that experience, I am infinitely more inclined to listen to them and their feelings on the matter than I am to listen to a bunch of us guys twisting into pretzels to justify giving people unwarranted attention when they're just walking around minding their own business. And "sharing their joy in life"? Then why aren't they greeting strange men like that, too? Why only women they don't know? I'm seriously asking this, on what planet is it ok to walk up to a stranger, totally unsolicited, and say "hey beautiful"? The notion that's remotely acceptable is downright ghoulish.
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Post by PsychoGoatee on Oct 28, 2014 20:31:18 GMT -5
All those guys are offering her dick she doesn't want. "Oh just saying 'hey beautiful' or 'have a great day' isn't harassment!" f*** that. Of course its harassment. Those guys don't give a shit about her day beyond whether or not her day ends with their penis in or near her. What's even more disturbing is she clearly had a "f*** off" face on her. Imagine if she smiled in the least. On the other hand, she probably will have the pick of the litter when it comes to relationships and people lining up to date her. There are many many pros to her being considered attractive that will make her life easier. She will also get unwanted attention sure, and some people I'd definitely agree would be in the wrong and are being rude. And of course there are also genuine scumbags out there who are worse than rude. But in general, I don't think compliments because you find somebody hot are automatically evil. You know what's really disturbing? Some people never get any attention from the opposite sex, and are alone forever! They never get the opportunity to complain about their spoil or riches. Of course there's good and bad, but they really downplay the good to complain about the bad. If you have countless suitors, my opinion is you have less to complain about that you think. Naturally some strongly disagree with me, but me I'm very much about equality, so I don't think we need to treat one gender as protected snowflakes when it comes to attention and compliments. I acknowledge that making people uncomfortable isn't cool, although those lines are different for everyone. We're already practically in a culture where no eye contact and no connecting in public is almsot the norm, everybody will just stare at their phones and ignore eachother because that's socially acceptable. I say somebody says "Hi beautiful" and keeps on walking, there is no harm done. I'd love it if somebody said that to me, even a guy, I'd take the compliment.
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Renslayer
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
every time i come around your city...
Posts: 16,507
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Post by Renslayer on Oct 28, 2014 20:31:46 GMT -5
There were a couple of interesting responses in the thread. The first is that these people don't say "hello" or "good morning" to every person they encounter. They only say it to women they wanna f*** and they aren't really trying to know them (see how they answer once the women they're catcalling declines their advances). A lot of times women will either have their headphones on, engaging in conversation on their phone, etc and dudes will invade their space and physically grab them to gain their attention. None of us here would tolerate that if some stranger came up to us and did any of that. No one is gonna call you a slut, bitch, c*** etc as a man if you ignore someone talking to you. You're not gonna get called out your name, you're not gonna get followed to where you live, and no one is gonna say they want to f*** you (even as you're standing with your child) as a man. And if we zoom out and take it to online venues, the majority of men aren't gonna get death threats, rape threats, doxxing, and being forced to leave your online platform.
This "oh there are worse social injustices out there" is true, but to use that and say street harassment is "less serious" is funny when women have been killed, assaulted for declining the advances of a man is curious. These things are interconnected and just trying to put them in neat individual boxes is kinda iffy imo. We can call out street harassment and tell these dudes to stop it while discussing other critical issues at the same time
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Post by bluemeii on Oct 28, 2014 20:32:25 GMT -5
All those guys are offering her dick she doesn't want. "Oh just saying 'hey beautiful' or 'have a great day' isn't harassment!" f*** that. Of course its harassment. Those guys don't give a shit about her day beyond whether or not her day ends with their penis in or near her. What's even more disturbing is she clearly had a "f*** off" face on her. Imagine if she smiled in the least. "Well there are bigger problems out there." Not if your whole day, all day, everyday is like that. Sure there are more severe problems but NOT addressing problems like these can lead to something like this becoming a more severe problem down the line. That's pretty much simplifying or generalizing every single comment that was made her way. Fine we can simplify further....Harrasment - aggressive pressure or intimidation. Sorry other than 1 or 2 instances where the men followed her or followed up with comments I don't see that happening. As has been discussed throughout this thread, not one person is condoning that. The simple act of a friendly greeting. No sorry that's just getting to generalizing that all men act and think the way you described and that's a load of shit.
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 28, 2014 20:32:48 GMT -5
All those guys are offering her dick she doesn't want. "Oh just saying 'hey beautiful' or 'have a great day' isn't harassment!" f*** that. Of course its harassment. Those guys don't give a shit about her day beyond whether or not her day ends with their penis in or near her. What's even more disturbing is she clearly had a "f*** off" face on her. Imagine if she smiled in the least. On the other hand, she probably will have the pick of the litter when it comes to relationships and people lining up to date her. There are many many pros to her being considered attractive that will make her life easier. She will also get unwanted attention sure, and some people I'd definitely agree would be in the wrong and are being rude. And of course there are also genuine scumbags out there who are worse than rude. But in general, I don't think compliments because you find somebody hot are automatically evil. You know what's really disturbing? Some people never get any attention from the opposite sex, and are alone forever! They never get the opportunity to complain about their spoil or riches. Of course there's good and bad, but they really downplay the good to complain about the bad. If you have countless suitors, my opinion is you have less to complain about that you think. Naturally some strongly disagree with me, but me I'm very much about equality, so I don't think we need to treat one gender as protected snowflakes when it comes to attention and compliments. I acknowledge that making people uncomfortable isn't cool, although those lines are different for everyone. We're already practically in a culture where no eye contact and no connecting in public is almsot the norm, everybody will just stare at their phones and ignore eachother because that's socially acceptable. I say somebody says "Hi beautiful" and keeps on walking, there is no harm done. I'd love it if somebody said that to me, even a guy, I'd take the compliment. ... You realize you're negating the feelings of half the population, right? "No harm done". Who are you to say that?
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Post by Gravedigger's Biscuits on Oct 28, 2014 20:36:49 GMT -5
All those guys are offering her dick she doesn't want. "Oh just saying 'hey beautiful' or 'have a great day' isn't harassment!"
f*** that. Of course its harassment. Those guys don't give a shit about her day beyond whether or not her day ends with their penis in or near her. What's even more disturbing is she clearly had a "f*** off" face on her. Imagine if she smiled in the least. "Well there are bigger problems out there." Not if your whole day, all day, everyday is like that. Sure there are more severe problems but NOT addressing problems like these can lead to something like this becoming a more severe problem down the line. Oh I didn't know mind readers were a real thing....
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Post by PsychoGoatee on Oct 28, 2014 20:37:37 GMT -5
On the other hand, she probably will have the pick of the litter when it comes to relationships and people lining up to date her. There are many many pros to her being considered attractive that will make her life easier. She will also get unwanted attention sure, and some people I'd definitely agree would be in the wrong and are being rude. And of course there are also genuine scumbags out there who are worse than rude. But in general, I don't think compliments because you find somebody hot are automatically evil. You know what's really disturbing? Some people never get any attention from the opposite sex, and are alone forever! They never get the opportunity to complain about their spoil or riches. Of course there's good and bad, but they really downplay the good to complain about the bad. If you have countless suitors, my opinion is you have less to complain about that you think. Naturally some strongly disagree with me, but me I'm very much about equality, so I don't think we need to treat one gender as protected snowflakes when it comes to attention and compliments. I acknowledge that making people uncomfortable isn't cool, although those lines are different for everyone. We're already practically in a culture where no eye contact and no connecting in public is almsot the norm, everybody will just stare at their phones and ignore eachother because that's socially acceptable. I say somebody says "Hi beautiful" and keeps on walking, there is no harm done. I'd love it if somebody said that to me, even a guy, I'd take the compliment. ... You realize you're negating the feelings of half the population, right? "No harm done". Who are you to say that? Who are you to boil down what I'm assuming you're referring to as genders as two viewpoints? Not every woman is complaining about compliments, for one thing. This is an issue that is not boiled down to the gender of the poster posting it, which I'm also assuming we're the same one? And I'm about equality and am about as progressive as is possible, I guess I just have a different opinion than you on a topic of social etiquette and what it means etc.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,936
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Post by chazraps on Oct 28, 2014 20:38:12 GMT -5
I honestly don't care about the asking for donations at the end. The most important thing about this video is the perspective it's giving people and the conversation we are having in its wake, which for many people is the first time they're confronted with it. I've lived in New York for a decade. I've lived in every borough, and it's the same everywhere, with Manhattan and Brooklyn being by fan the worst. As a guy, I get approached at least once a day by someone asking for money or trying to get me to sign up for something. I don't think that's that uncommon for most major cities. But that is nothing, nothing like what every woman in New York has to go through on a daily basis. No matter which block you're on, because of how densely populated this city is, there's going to be someone posted up on the corner saying things. As a man, I don't hear them directed at me and I could have the privilege to just ignore it without thinking. But for women, you have men loudly degrading you and objectifying you just for living, or posing an immediate threat of violence or swindle. It's awful. I have friends who can't walk their dogs without hearing comments about their body when they reach over to pick up their dog's droppings. I think what a lot of people in this thread are misreading the intent as is "It's not OK to say hi to women." That's not what's happening in the video, even when it's men saying "Hi" to women. It's guys making a brief but entitled public spectacle at someone just because they're a female, regardless of their intent. It's also important to remember that this is happening IN PUBLIC ON THE STREETS. Not someone approaching her in the club or at a bar or somewhere that a person would be looking to meet and have a conversation with another person. She's going for a walk. And this was just in one day. Public education and awareness about the truly awful problem street harassing is needs to happen. I'm well aware you can't start jailing people for yelling, but it's not something we as a civilized society should just shrug our shoulders and say "boys will be boys" on. I'm not advocating for the whole boys will be boys mentality. It's simply a case of sometimes there really isn't anything you can do about it. By that I mean the catcalls or whistles and the like. People can try to education or shame individuals into stopping...but if they have their mind set that this is appropriate behavior do you think they would react to that? This is something that's going to take a cultural change, and that kind of change unfortunately cannot happen over night. Gonna be some growing pains with it. I'm really not trying to call you out and I don't mean this as a personal attack or insult but, regarded the words I've bolded, there's the problem with a lot of reactions to this video. There is something people can do about it, to draw attention and discuss and raise awareness like this video has done. I'm sure there's plenty of people who catcall because they don't realize how intrusive, invasive and demeaning it is. The more resources that are out there, the more potential for critical thinking exists. If it weren't for this video, this thread wouldn't exist. While nobody here's probably going to post "I can't believe I've done this to a woman, wow, I'm going to stop," I wouldn't call it entirely a longshot to suggest that it's happening. These discussions are necessary, and there's nothing in the video to suggest this is an overnight solution. Think about how far less you hear "faggot" in public today than, say, ten years ago. Like you said, cultural change needs to happen, and these discussions are precisely the catalyst for that.
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