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Post by Surfer Sandman on Oct 30, 2014 11:26:28 GMT -5
I think money is the primary reason as to why we'll see CM Punk come back to WWE sometime in the future. It won't happen this month, it probably won't happen within a year, but at some point he'll realize that life as Phil Brooks isn't nearly as lucrative as life as CM Punk, and he'll come back. I'd respect him more if he didn't come back. And he won't.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Oct 30, 2014 11:44:16 GMT -5
I think people just want Punk to be held to the same standards as the rest of the wrestling world, and often he is white knighted for the thoughts and ideas of a frustrated community. I don't begrudge him for leaving, or his fans for missing him, but I do get a little perturbed by the double standard that shows up when discussing him. I also think much of the backlash against him isn't so much against him, but against this vocal group that will absolve him of things that many others would be roasted for(money, fan interaction). And it's not like people are wrong for saying he is private or he wants what is fair, it's just not often that a wrestler is held to these standards.
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saintpat
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Post by saintpat on Oct 30, 2014 11:51:02 GMT -5
How dare Punk want to avoid horrible booking after several years of giving WWE 100% at the tail end of his 10+ year career while managing to give management a heads up that he was leaving and why. And what kind of asshole expects the money he's owed that wasn't tied directly to performing?! What people that aren't Punk fans seem to ignore is the reports that he, Vince, and Triple H had a talk before the "walk out" where he informed them of his intent and reasoning. If it was a real breach of contract situation, WWE would have immediately sicked McDevitt on Punk, they wouldn't be talking royalty fees. Actually, at least from the reports we've seen WWE's position was that since CM Punk ran out on his contract and didn't fulfill his obligations they were withholding his cut of merch money since he wasn't living up to his end of the deal. We don't know what agreement has now been reached -- WWE may be paying him at a lower rate or agreeing only to pay going forward with no back pay on merch because they feel they are "even" now by keeping whatever sums he would have been owed. If Lebron James signs a contract to play for Cleveland for the coming season, him telling management that he doesn't intend to play out the last three months of the season does not negate the contract. Just because Punk had a talk with WWE upper management (and we have little or no idea of the substance of that talk) doesn't mean his contract is null and void.
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Post by rowdy426 on Oct 30, 2014 12:00:49 GMT -5
How dare Punk want to avoid horrible booking after several years of giving WWE 100% at the tail end of his 10+ year career while managing to give management a heads up that he was leaving and why. And what kind of asshole expects the money he's owed that wasn't tied directly to performing?! What people that aren't Punk fans seem to ignore is the reports that he, Vince, and Triple H had a talk before the "walk out" where he informed them of his intent and reasoning. If it was a real breach of contract situation, WWE would have immediately sicked McDevitt on Punk, they wouldn't be talking royalty fees. Actually, at least from the reports we've seen WWE's position was that since CM Punk ran out on his contract and didn't fulfill his obligations they were withholding his cut of merch money since he wasn't living up to his end of the deal. We don't know what agreement has now been reached -- WWE may be paying him at a lower rate or agreeing only to pay going forward with no back pay on merch because they feel they are "even" now by keeping whatever sums he would have been owed. If Lebron James signs a contract to play for Cleveland for the coming season, him telling management that he doesn't intend to play out the last three months of the season does not negate the contract. Just because Punk had a talk with WWE upper management (and we have little or no idea of the substance of that talk) doesn't mean his contract is null and void. To my knowledge, WWE contracts have agreed-upon dates over a certain amount of time ie 275 days/year for 3 years.... it's possible, with all the extra work he'd put in while champion, that maybe he exceeded those dates, to where he had zero obligation to stick out those last 6 months.
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Hawk Hart
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Post by Hawk Hart on Oct 30, 2014 12:10:09 GMT -5
Actually, at least from the reports we've seen WWE's position was that since CM Punk ran out on his contract and didn't fulfill his obligations they were withholding his cut of merch money since he wasn't living up to his end of the deal. We don't know what agreement has now been reached -- WWE may be paying him at a lower rate or agreeing only to pay going forward with no back pay on merch because they feel they are "even" now by keeping whatever sums he would have been owed. If Lebron James signs a contract to play for Cleveland for the coming season, him telling management that he doesn't intend to play out the last three months of the season does not negate the contract. Just because Punk had a talk with WWE upper management (and we have little or no idea of the substance of that talk) doesn't mean his contract is null and void. To my knowledge, WWE contracts have agreed-upon dates over a certain amount of time ie 275 days/year for 3 years.... it's possible, with all the extra work he'd put in while champion, that maybe he exceeded those dates, to where he had zero obligation to stick out those last 6 months. Exactly. WWE has a time-frame/dates worked structure they seem to follow pretty rigidly where you could be signed for 3 years with the obligation of working say 300 events with the option of extending the amount of dates if that obligation is met before the end of the 3 years. It's entirely possible that Punk hit that ceiling and said "f*** this noise, I'm gonna get some rest." Pat brings up a valid point, this is all conjecture based on wild speculation. Ergo, we really have no place discussing it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2014 12:13:14 GMT -5
To my knowledge, WWE contracts have agreed-upon dates over a certain amount of time ie 275 days/year for 3 years.... it's possible, with all the extra work he'd put in while champion, that maybe he exceeded those dates, to where he had zero obligation to stick out those last 6 months. Exactly. WWE has a time-frame/dates worked structure they seem to follow pretty rigidly where you could be signed for 3 years with the obligation of working say 300 events with the option of extending the amount of dates if that obligation is met before the end of the 3 years. It's entirely possible that Punk hit that ceiling and said "f*** this noise, I'm gonna get some rest." Pat brings up a valid point, this is all conjecture based on wild speculation. Ergo, we really have no place discussing it. This gives me an idea for a thread...contractual reasons CM Punk left the WWE. Did Vince not share one of his steak sandwiches with a hungry Punk one Sunday evening? His contract states that he could take one sandwich a week from Vince.
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saintpat
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Post by saintpat on Oct 30, 2014 12:16:33 GMT -5
However one feels about the contractual situation, is there general agreement that the RIGHT thing to do would have been for Punk to give them a couple weeks notice to write him out of everything?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2014 12:20:51 GMT -5
However one feels about the contractual situation, is there general agreement that the RIGHT thing to do would have been for Punk to give them a couple weeks notice to write him out of everything? Pretty much, the issue is as troublesome as some people (Foley is coming to mind) have suggested he may have tried to speak to Vince/Triple H together for a few weeks but they never had time for him at the shows. I suppose with so little free/shared time between everyone involved in the situation means it'd have gone the same way whether Punk left in December, January, or March.
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Hawk Hart
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Post by Hawk Hart on Oct 30, 2014 12:40:01 GMT -5
Exactly. WWE has a time-frame/dates worked structure they seem to follow pretty rigidly where you could be signed for 3 years with the obligation of working say 300 events with the option of extending the amount of dates if that obligation is met before the end of the 3 years. It's entirely possible that Punk hit that ceiling and said "f*** this noise, I'm gonna get some rest." Pat brings up a valid point, this is all conjecture based on wild speculation. Ergo, we really have no place discussing it. This gives me an idea for a thread...contractual reasons CM Punk left the WWE. Did Vince not share one of his steak sandwiches with a hungry Punk one Sunday evening? His contract states that he could take one sandwich a week from Vince. His contract stated that he was supposed to get five items of his choosing from the WWE Warehouse but Vince wanted to count the Smackdown Fist as two items and Punk felt ripped off.
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saintpat
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Post by saintpat on Oct 30, 2014 13:13:43 GMT -5
However one feels about the contractual situation, is there general agreement that the RIGHT thing to do would have been for Punk to give them a couple weeks notice to write him out of everything? Pretty much, the issue is as troublesome as some people (Foley is coming to mind) have suggested he may have tried to speak to Vince/Triple H together for a few weeks but they never had time for him at the shows. I suppose with so little free/shared time between everyone involved in the situation means it'd have gone the same way whether Punk left in December, January, or March. Bottom line is however long it took, he did get that meeting. Proper thing to do would have been say, "I'm out, I feel I've fulfilled my contractual obligations. I'm giving you two weeks notice -- tonight's Raw and next week's -- to write me out." Even if he told them he didn't want to wrestle on those shows, it at least would have been the right way to do it -- they could have had him cut a promo, have someone attack him offstage (and they do this all the time with the actual attack being one bump and the rest off camera, so it's not like working a match) or whatever. Doesn't matter much now, but I just don't think he did it the right way.
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Post by benstudd on Oct 31, 2014 2:36:08 GMT -5
There was also the burnout, injuries and unhappiness with his booking but yeah that was a part of it. Never really ignored or worth taking a shot at a fandom IMO but what do I know? I've seen hundreds of "Punk quit over booking" posts (along with countless "Punk was right to quit over booking" posts) and precious few, if any, recognizing that money was a major part of it. Burnout/injuries, I'll grant you that many Punk marks have acknowledged that, but most of the "unhappiness" posts have been in relation to booking ... when in reality it's clear a major part of his unhappiness had to do with money. And I did make it clear that I think there's nothing wrong with a guy trying to make a buck. Just don't build statues to him because of it. I gather he cares less than two sh!ts about how others (Bryan in particular) were booked and that his own issues with booking came back to his place on the card, main eventing WM, etc., and that those issues related directly to his paycheck. He didn't quit over money though.
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saintpat
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Post by saintpat on Oct 31, 2014 2:51:25 GMT -5
I've seen hundreds of "Punk quit over booking" posts (along with countless "Punk was right to quit over booking" posts) and precious few, if any, recognizing that money was a major part of it. Burnout/injuries, I'll grant you that many Punk marks have acknowledged that, but most of the "unhappiness" posts have been in relation to booking ... when in reality it's clear a major part of his unhappiness had to do with money. And I did make it clear that I think there's nothing wrong with a guy trying to make a buck. Just don't build statues to him because of it. I gather he cares less than two sh!ts about how others (Bryan in particular) were booked and that his own issues with booking came back to his place on the card, main eventing WM, etc., and that those issues related directly to his paycheck. He didn't quit over money though. When did he tell you this?
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Post by benstudd on Oct 31, 2014 3:07:50 GMT -5
He didn't quit over money though. When did he tell you this? Well the general feeling over the majority of people is that he was burned out and he was talking about leaving for quite some time. Maybe you discovered something else, Columbo?
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saintpat
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Post by saintpat on Oct 31, 2014 10:45:39 GMT -5
When did he tell you this? Well the general feeling over the majority of people is that he was burned out and he was talking about leaving for quite some time. Maybe you discovered something else, Columbo? All I know is what was reported. My earlier posts addressed that. You're welcome.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Oct 31, 2014 11:09:52 GMT -5
What bothers me is that in the list of people who could complain about their booking by WWE since 2011, Punk has to be pretty damn near the bottom.
It can't simply be booking. It's probably a combination of things that we'll never really know the answer to
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Bad Moon
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Post by Bad Moon on Oct 31, 2014 11:40:09 GMT -5
Isn't Punk's hoodie blank because much like Batista, it was covered in Gracie logos? Does that mean the 2k15 game will have naked Batista?
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JCBaggee
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Post by JCBaggee on Oct 31, 2014 12:07:18 GMT -5
Isn't Punk's hoodie blank because much like Batista, it was covered in Gracie logos? Yeah it's more dirtsheets not knowing much and creating facts based on poorly researched speculation. They say his merchandise is "censored" yet ignore all of his t-shirts in the game. Punk was wearing his WWE Shop hoody with his Aftershock logo to the ring near the end, actually.
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Post by benstudd on Oct 31, 2014 22:45:50 GMT -5
What bothers me is that in the list of people who could complain about their booking by WWE since 2011, Punk has to be pretty damn near the bottom. It can't simply be booking. It's probably a combination of things that we'll never really know the answer to He was burned out and was in pain. Heyman said Punk talked about leaving maybe two years before he did.
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