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Post by Hobby Drifter on Oct 30, 2014 20:29:22 GMT -5
I make 500 every week and a half. one night of wrestling shit that totals to probably less than an hour not bad imo It's not just "one night of wrestling". There's the several hour drive to from the previous city (or the hassles of commercial flights), the hotel check-in, finding a gym (and enough time to work out to such an extent that your physique is TV-ready). Plus, that one match takes the same toll on the human body as something like a half dozen (or more) low speed car crashes. Even though WWE likes to make it appear that talent arrive at the building like five minutes before their match, they're actually there from the morning/afternoon. The compensation for WWE guys, unless they're REALLY high up on the card, is pretty low for all the effort and *time* put into it. To say nothing of the physicality of it.
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Juice
El Dandy
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Post by Juice on Oct 30, 2014 21:13:27 GMT -5
500 a day is quite better than most people in this country. Hell the developmental nobody's make more than I do.
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Post by Hobby Drifter on Oct 30, 2014 21:27:05 GMT -5
Look at some of the *costs* that go into being a pro-wrestler. Think health insurance is expensive for people with typical jobs? Imagine how pricey it gets when your job is "getting your ass kicked several nights a week". That'll eat up those 500 bills pretty quick. You can't maintain the kind of body that WWE allows on TV by eating leftover cold cuts whatever Sam's Club had on sale. That kind of physique requires a very strict diet...which becomes even MORE expensive for guys who aren't often in their own kitchens.
Athletes in other sports can pick up things like endorsement deals, but that's not really an option when WWE owns the guys' likeness, gimmick, and *name*.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Oct 30, 2014 21:36:54 GMT -5
I wish Del Rio would have come out about the apparently common place racism while he still worked there. That's the only way things will change is by bringing the public's attention to it. And since he was a relatively high up while he was there I would think others, lower and higher on the totem pole might have come out as well. I absolutely hate the go along to get along mentality. And that seems to be the modus operandi of the WWE. Ugh, it's completely toxic. I can't imagine working in such an environment. I think doing that would just hurt the Latino and Latina employees who are already there. People have a tendency to take things out on whoever they can.
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barelybeastmode
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Post by barelybeastmode on Oct 30, 2014 22:23:23 GMT -5
I wish Del Rio would have come out about the apparently common place racism while he still worked there. That's the only way things will change is by bringing the public's attention to it. And since he was a relatively high up while he was there I would think others, lower and higher on the totem pole might have come out as well. I absolutely hate the go along to get along mentality. And that seems to be the modus operandi of the WWE. Ugh, it's completely toxic. I can't imagine working in such an environment. I think doing that would just hurt the Latino and Latina employees who are already there. People have a tendency to take things out on whoever they can. I wasn't just talking about the Latino employees though. I meant all the people of color they employ. I remember reading somewhere they Mark Henry was told they wanted to give him the nickname of Silverback... He rejected it, obviously, but the fact that someone thought it was even okay to suggest? *shakes head* And I shudder to think of all the bull the P.O.C.'s have to put up with just to work there, especially in light of the hazing and weirdo backstage/locker room etiquette rumors and stories. No sir, couldn't be me. But anyway, I imagine if it's all the P.O.C.'s with a few upper echelon Caucasians thrown in, that'd be enough to get some real change made.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2014 22:46:02 GMT -5
Del Rio did not name who made the phone call to him but said it was someone higher-up who always made racial jokes. Del Rio said because this person does it, others think it’s okay to do.
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Crimson
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Post by Crimson on Oct 30, 2014 23:12:31 GMT -5
Look at some of the *costs* that go into being a pro-wrestler. Think health insurance is expensive for people with typical jobs? Imagine how pricey it gets when your job is "getting your ass kicked several nights a week". That'll eat up those 500 bills pretty quick. You can't maintain the kind of body that WWE allows on TV by eating leftover cold cuts whatever Sam's Club had on sale. That kind of physique requires a very strict diet...which becomes even MORE expensive for guys who aren't often in their own kitchens. Athletes in other sports can pick up things like endorsement deals, but that's not really an option when WWE owns the guys' likeness, gimmick, and *name*. Not to mention that all those travel expenses comes out the wrestlers' pockets.
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Post by Hobby Drifter on Oct 30, 2014 23:47:12 GMT -5
The off-screen life of a WWE wrestler would be immediately intolerable to damn near anybody. It has ALL of the worst bits of being a professional athlete, actor, carnival worker, reality TV star, and a stuntperson...with VERY few of the benefits.
Unlike other professional sports, WWE guys don't have an off season. There's no players union to keep the bosses from pushing them well past their breaking point. Outside endorsements are almost non-existent. The travel is never-ending and costs come largely out of talents' own pockets, which encourages them to go for "cheap" rather than "fast" which costs them even MORE of their time. They only play ONE character, and are supposed to (within reason) keep in-character publicly. The physical toll on their bodies (while not as extreme as it once was) is both *brutal* and *constant* and it's made worse when you consider they have to remain in "TV shape" while suffering the effects of constant aches and pains. No taking it easy on the weights for a few weeks while you nurse a sore body part.
Add to that all of the 70's frat-house bull****, the ridiculous "traditions" that must be rigorously upheld, management that has insolated themselves in their little bubble for so long, that they no longer qualify for residency on planet Earth, and a heaping-pile of outright, institutionalized racism...and I can't fathom how ANYONE can put up with it for any great length of time.
Modern wrestlers are some of the most talented people wandering the planet. Just getting to the dance proves that, and being able to perform for so long solidifies it. These are guys who absolutely COULD be a success in other fields. The guys who choose to leave completely have a pretty solid track record. Rock's the biggest action star in Hollywood. Lesnar became the biggest draw in MMA history. Batista shut us up right quick with Guardians of the Galaxy (and soon freakin' Bond!). Guys who just took up their hobbies as careers did pretty well for themselves, Austin, Jericho, Foley, etc. Even guys who took jobs outside of the spotlight like Chris Nowinski, Abby the Butcher, George Steel, Warrior, and a host of other guys do/did better than just alright.
In fact, if you want to find examples of sad, washed-up, fallen-on-hard-times guys, it's the people who DIDN'T leave that got it the worst. And THOSE guys problems were, with few exceptions, began when they started self-medicating themselves so they could continue to do their jobs.
I love wrestling. And I have this crazy level of respect for the people who do it, especially at the highest levels. But holy ****.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Oct 31, 2014 5:50:27 GMT -5
I wish Del Rio would have come out about the apparently common place racism while he still worked there. That's the only way things will change is by bringing the public's attention to it. And since he was a relatively high up while he was there I would think others, lower and higher on the totem pole might have come out as well. Yep, this is what's sticking with me as well. Raising the issues after they're out of WWE always seems like sour grapes. He was powerful enough in WWE to make a difference. Now it's somebody else's job because he's gone.
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Post by Slammy Award-Winning Cannibal on Oct 31, 2014 8:55:21 GMT -5
Haha this thread is great. Keyboard warriors complaining about WWE's structure when their talents are paid better than anyone else in the continent.
Folks, if you're inspired to make change, please, start up a wrestling business. It sounds like a lot of you have a vision and change we can believe in. Let's do it. A lot of people in the IWC seem to understand the wrestling business more than WWE. Why won't anyone stand up and compete?
The only thing I feel bad for Del Rio is the racism charge. But that's nothing personal on him unfortunately. It's decades of a negative locker room culture. It needs to change but him pulling this media stunt isn't going to move the needle an inch.
As for the rest, the guy has always been a whiny outspoken asshole. He's always done media interviews where he runs his mouth like his shit doesn't stink. Doesn't surprise me in the least that he leaves, burns his bridge and talk more shit than ever before. WWE made him a MILLIONAIRE and now he's biting the hand that feeds him saying they're a terrible company with shitty pay. Racism aside, what an ingrate.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Oct 31, 2014 9:11:45 GMT -5
Haha this thread is great. Keyboard warriors complaining about WWE's structure when their talents are paid better than anyone else in the continent. Folks, if you're inspired to make change, please, start up a wrestling business. It sounds like a lot of you have a vision and change we can believe in. Let's do it. A lot of people in the IWC seem to understand the wrestling business more than WWE. Why won't anyone stand up and compete? The only thing I feel bad for Del Rio is the racism charge. But that's nothing personal on him unfortunately. It's decades of a negative locker room culture. It needs to change but him pulling this media stunt isn't going to move the needle an inch. As for the rest, the guy has always been a whiny outspoken asshole. He's always done media interviews where he runs his mouth like his shit doesn't stink. Doesn't surprise me in the least that he leaves, burns his bridge and talk more shit than ever before. WWE made him a MILLIONAIRE and now he's biting the hand that feeds him saying they're a terrible company with shitty pay. Racism aside, what an ingrate. "Racism aside, what an ingrate." "RACISM ASIDE, WHAT AN INGRATE."...also, the original post describes someone else working as a wrestler on this continent who is paid better? So, um...? Yeah, not sure what you're saying, there.
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kidkamikaze10
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on Oct 31, 2014 9:31:42 GMT -5
Haha this thread is great. Keyboard warriors complaining about WWE's structure when their talents are paid better than anyone else in the continent. Folks, if you're inspired to make change, please, start up a wrestling business. It sounds like a lot of you have a vision and change we can believe in. Let's do it. A lot of people in the IWC seem to understand the wrestling business more than WWE. Why won't anyone stand up and compete? The only thing I feel bad for Del Rio is the racism charge. But that's nothing personal on him unfortunately. It's decades of a negative locker room culture. It needs to change but him pulling this media stunt isn't going to move the needle an inch. As for the rest, the guy has always been a whiny outspoken asshole. He's always done media interviews where he runs his mouth like his shit doesn't stink. Doesn't surprise me in the least that he leaves, burns his bridge and talk more shit than ever before. WWE made him a MILLIONAIRE and now he's biting the hand that feeds him saying they're a terrible company with shitty pay. Racism aside, what an ingrate. Besides what Carp said, Del Rio comes from a pretty rich family, by lucha standards. He was doing fine before the E, and now he's in a position to do even better. So I'm more than fine with him being a "sour grape". Frankly, the E has had this coming for decades. I just wish others would follow suit, or better yet, help other promotions build up so that wrestlers can have more options. Better options. A big reason why I LOVED that Kazuchika Okada avoided the WWE.
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Post by Slammy Award-Winning Cannibal on Oct 31, 2014 9:55:12 GMT -5
Haha this thread is great. Keyboard warriors complaining about WWE's structure when their talents are paid better than anyone else in the continent. Folks, if you're inspired to make change, please, start up a wrestling business. It sounds like a lot of you have a vision and change we can believe in. Let's do it. A lot of people in the IWC seem to understand the wrestling business more than WWE. Why won't anyone stand up and compete? The only thing I feel bad for Del Rio is the racism charge. But that's nothing personal on him unfortunately. It's decades of a negative locker room culture. It needs to change but him pulling this media stunt isn't going to move the needle an inch. As for the rest, the guy has always been a whiny outspoken asshole. He's always done media interviews where he runs his mouth like his shit doesn't stink. Doesn't surprise me in the least that he leaves, burns his bridge and talk more shit than ever before. WWE made him a MILLIONAIRE and now he's biting the hand that feeds him saying they're a terrible company with shitty pay. Racism aside, what an ingrate. "Racism aside, what an ingrate." "RACISM ASIDE, WHAT AN INGRATE."...also, the original post describes someone else working as a wrestler on this continent who is paid better? So, um...? Yeah, not sure what you're saying, there. Haha oh right, Mexico. My bad. Stupid. Well I was thinking US and Canada since we both know Americans aren't exactly chomping at the bit to live and work in Mexico City. That was my kinda my point with all that. And yes, racism aside because he clearly has legit gripes with that, much like Mark Henry did and any other victim of hate speech in the company. But when you're making great money main eventing PPVs and shows and then you go off and bitch about the pay, it's pretty dickish.
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kidkamikaze10
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on Oct 31, 2014 10:00:51 GMT -5
"Racism aside, what an ingrate." "RACISM ASIDE, WHAT AN INGRATE."...also, the original post describes someone else working as a wrestler on this continent who is paid better? So, um...? Yeah, not sure what you're saying, there. Haha oh right, Mexico. My bad. Stupid. Well I was thinking US and Canada since we both know Americans aren't exactly chomping at the bit to live and work in Mexico City. That was my kinda my point with all that. And yes, racism aside because he clearly has legit gripes with that, much like Mark Henry did and any other victim of hate speech in the company. But when you're making great money main eventing PPVs and shows and then you go off and bitch about the pay, it's pretty dickish. Or it's because you've noticed some unfair business practices, know people in the company who are suffering way more than you are but would risk too much if they spoke out, and decided to speak out about it because you have way less to lose.
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 31, 2014 10:15:33 GMT -5
Knowing how much better off financially people would be working for ROH or in Mexico, why don't they just do it? WWE isn't changing that until they have a reason to. You're most likely not better off in ROH; WWE has much higher downside guarantees, ROH is fully a "per appearance" basis unless you have a contract with them now that they're on Sinclair. Far less guaranteed money, and more importantly for some of these guys, no opportunity to break through to the point where you're making millions. That said, it IS possible to build yourself up to the point where you're pulling in a solid living as a draw on the indies, with international tours mixed in. Downside is that you get less guaranteed money, and less possibility of, say, a company like WWE paying for surgery for injuries incurred on the job. As for "they earn enough money" or whatever, that's really missing the forest for the trees. It's like whining that baseball players get paid too much and should never complain if they're asked to take a pay cut or whatever; sorry, baseball players are the reason people watch baseball, and given the money people spend buying tickets, merch, etc., the people who are pulling those dollars in should earn a strong percentage of the revenue. Same for WWE; if you don't have wrestlers, nobody's going to show up. If WWE wants to trumpet their billions of dollars in revenue, then the vast bulk of that should be put toward paying talent. It probably already IS where the bulk of revenues go, but that's where you reach conversations about how much is a reasonable amount.
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Post by Slammy Award-Winning Cannibal on Oct 31, 2014 10:17:56 GMT -5
Haha oh right, Mexico. My bad. Stupid. Well I was thinking US and Canada since we both know Americans aren't exactly chomping at the bit to live and work in Mexico City. That was my kinda my point with all that. And yes, racism aside because he clearly has legit gripes with that, much like Mark Henry did and any other victim of hate speech in the company. But when you're making great money main eventing PPVs and shows and then you go off and bitch about the pay, it's pretty dickish. Or it's because you've noticed some unfair business practices, know people in the company who are suffering way more than you are but would risk too much if they spoke out, and decided to speak out about it because you have way less to lose. Yeah, again, I understand speaking out on hate speech. But again, I'm strictly speaking about the compensation structure. WWE isn't unionized and it never will be. And on top of that, it's the only public company and the only game in town. So yeah, people know what they're getting themselves into. It's certainly not a shock to them. Otherwise, they'd go to Japan or, like, medical school.
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Post by rowdy426 on Oct 31, 2014 12:15:37 GMT -5
Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, but assuming that pay for a night's work on RAW is accurate... that's IN ADDITION TO the downside guarantees, is it not? That's how their contracts have been structured since the war w/ WCW, and I assume they are still the same.
Let's say I make $70,000/year w/ WWE, downside guarantee. So I am guaranteed a paycheck, every 2 weeks, of approx. $2,700 (26 weeks in a bi-weekly pay cycle year; as ind. contractor, taxes are my responsibility to deal with); on top of that is the incentive pay for working house shows, TV, and PPVs. So it's the $2,700 every 2 weeks, plus all that incentive pay is included.
I'm not saying the lower card guys are loaded, but they're not just living off that $500/night pay.
Unless they ditched downside guarantees, then ignore every word I just said.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 12:40:51 GMT -5
Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, but assuming that pay for a night's work on RAW is accurate... that's IN ADDITION TO the downside guarantees, is it not? That's how their contracts have been structured since the war w/ WCW, and I assume they are still the same. Let's say I make $70,000/year w/ WWE, downside guarantee. So I am guaranteed a paycheck, every 2 weeks, of approx. $2,700 (26 weeks in a bi-weekly pay cycle year; as ind. contractor, taxes are my responsibility to deal with); on top of that is the incentive pay for working house shows, TV, and PPVs. So it's the $2,700 every 2 weeks, plus all that incentive pay is included. I'm not saying the lower card guys are loaded, but they're not just living off that $500/night pay. Unless they ditched downside guarantees, then ignore every word I just said. I listened to an interview with (I want to say) Ken Shamrock a while back and he was talking about the perception that he was overpaid and he talked about exceeding his downside guarantee every year. So no, it sounds like the downside guarantee only kicks in if they make less money from everything else.
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jakes
Trap-Jaw
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Post by jakes on Oct 31, 2014 14:34:04 GMT -5
What does WWE needing competition have to do with racism? Racism has always been apart of wrestling everywhere. There's currently an interview out there where Stevie Rey is talking about all the problems he encountered with racism in WCW. There was a big lawsuit where Sonny Onoo and others reportedly won out big. Konnan was also on the winning end of a racial suit against TNA.
When it comes to Del Rio's payoffs when champion well maybe it had to do with him not drawing when holding the title. The dude has always been a dud who couldn't get over even though WWE tried very hard with him.
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,279
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Post by Woo on Oct 31, 2014 14:34:18 GMT -5
Haha this thread is great. Keyboard warriors complaining about WWE's structure when their talents are paid better than anyone else in the continent. Folks, if you're inspired to make change, please, start up a wrestling business. It sounds like a lot of you have a vision and change we can believe in. Let's do it. A lot of people in the IWC seem to understand the wrestling business more than WWE. Why won't anyone stand up and compete? The only thing I feel bad for Del Rio is the racism charge. But that's nothing personal on him unfortunately. It's decades of a negative locker room culture. It needs to change but him pulling this media stunt isn't going to move the needle an inch. As for the rest, the guy has always been a whiny outspoken asshole. He's always done media interviews where he runs his mouth like his shit doesn't stink. Doesn't surprise me in the least that he leaves, burns his bridge and talk more shit than ever before. WWE made him a MILLIONAIRE and now he's biting the hand that feeds him saying they're a terrible company with shitty pay. Racism aside, what an ingrate. It's not right that these wrestlers have to wrestle three times a week with no off season. It's not right that how much money they make depends on things that are completely out of control and rely on the pushes they recieve from a man who may at any time decide that you will now lose every match from here on out. Its not right that they have to work injured in order to keep any pushes they have going, because once you leave injured you may be viewed as damaged goods and never given another push again. It's not right that the WWE view these wrestlers and "independant contractors" yet control EVERYTHING that they do both on and off screen. It's not right that these independant contractors can't wrestler wherever they want. It's not right that these independant contractors can't get themselves endorsements. It's not right that these independant contractors have no say in the direction of their on-screen character or what matches they want to wrestle and when. It's not right that their travel expensives, something that they again have no choice but to make, are not fully compensated by the company forcing them to do it. It's not right that with no NHS in America that the wrestlers themselves have to pay for their own medical bills after being injured at work, in a job where getting injured is fully expected. It's not right that men can get fired whilst being out injured while working for you. It's not right that women who get pregnant can possibly be punished for it, or even fired as a result. It's not right that you can get fired at all without prior warnings or compensation. It's not right also that after being fired, often for no reason, that they can tell you that you are not allowed to work anywhere else for a whole month. It's not right that people have to be subjected to racist jokes just because the company is institutional racist and they are powerless to stop it. And it's not right that there is no union to stop the above bullshit from happening.
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