MrElijah
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Post by MrElijah on Oct 31, 2014 13:14:05 GMT -5
Imo, none of the guys mentioned here dropped the ball. They still found success in the end (benoit tarnished his legacy though) Now, a real case of indy darling dropping the ball is kaval WWE didn't do him any favors.
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Post by N E O G E O B O Y S on Oct 31, 2014 13:48:06 GMT -5
Imo, none of the guys mentioned here dropped the ball. They still found success in the end (benoit tarnished his legacy though) Now, a real case of indy darling dropping the ball is kaval WWE didn't do him any favors. That is true, but also, kaval left the comoany too quick
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xxshoyuweeniexx
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Oct 31, 2014 13:51:34 GMT -5
Not being that good has never stopped the WWE pushing anyone ever. When they're behind a guy, they get put with managers, established talent, get pre-taped segments to mask their weaknesses and all the time in the world to grow, Ryder wasn't given anything like that. He wasn't a new call up from FCW, they knew what he couldn't do that well and threw him out on Raw to do it anyway. There was money to be made from Ryder, but they chose not to protect him or try to help coach him to improve, they chose to expose him out of spite. If the crowd chant 'We want <lower midcarder>' through dull segments and matches, maybe they could use said lower midcarder in a way that would cover their weaknesses and make money while the crowd are behind them, or better yet, work to produce a better product so the live audience don't have to make their own fun. If Zack Ryder wasn't ratings poison then maybe they would have stuck with him. But he was doing a bad job and driving away viewers, so what other choice did they have? I remember CM Punk's segments back then didn't get that great ratings either, and people called for WWE to take the belt off him. WWE kept it on him though, slowly made him more important, and by the end of his reign he was so much of a draw that when he came back from his post-WM30 break, he was able to make segments with Curtis f***ing Axel high drawing. The point of all that is to say you don't just give up on somebody because his segment aren't high drawing. You stick with it and tell your audience this guy's important, then eventually they'll be that ratings draw somewhat.
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King Koopa
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Post by 67 more on Oct 31, 2014 14:07:43 GMT -5
Benoit - Before the incident.... Everyone wanted this guy pushed to the moon. So they launch him into space and we realize.... Oh, he isn't that entertaining. Got the belt off of him ASAP and pushed right down to ECW. RVD - Everything everyone said was true. He was "held down" for good reason. In regards to Benoit, they had him play third wheel to the f***ing HHH/Eugene storyline. He was never given a chance because HHH still had to be the focal point.
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Boo!
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Post by Boo! on Oct 31, 2014 14:09:45 GMT -5
To be fair to Daniel Bryan he didn't drop the ball so much as no longer have sufficient strength in his arm to carry it.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Oct 31, 2014 14:13:22 GMT -5
Not being that good has never stopped the WWE pushing anyone ever. When they're behind a guy, they get put with managers, established talent, get pre-taped segments to mask their weaknesses and all the time in the world to grow, Ryder wasn't given anything like that. He wasn't a new call up from FCW, they knew what he couldn't do that well and threw him out on Raw to do it anyway. There was money to be made from Ryder, but they chose not to protect him or try to help coach him to improve, they chose to expose him out of spite. If the crowd chant 'We want <lower midcarder>' through dull segments and matches, maybe they could use said lower midcarder in a way that would cover their weaknesses and make money while the crowd are behind them, or better yet, work to produce a better product so the live audience don't have to make their own fun. If Zack Ryder wasn't ratings poison then maybe they would have stuck with him. But he was doing a bad job and driving away viewers, so what other choice did they have? Zack Ryder wasn't ratings poison though.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 14:32:51 GMT -5
If Zack Ryder wasn't ratings poison then maybe they would have stuck with him. But he was doing a bad job and driving away viewers, so what other choice did they have? I remember CM Punk's segments back then didn't get that great ratings either, and people called for WWE to take the belt off him. WWE kept it on him though, slowly made him more important, and by the end of his reign he was so much of a draw was able to make segments with Curtis f***ing Axel high drawing. The point of all that is to say you don't just give up on somebody because his segment aren't high drawing. You stick with it and tell your audience this guy's important, then eventually they'll be that ratings draw somewhat. Absolutely. One of the great fallacies is that the promoters need to let the fans guide the ship, as if the fans are this collective united behind a common opinion. With few exceptions, the fans have no idea what they want. The fans need to be told what to like. Granted, that used to be work better before people "smartened" up and started hating everything they're told to like. I am far more likely to get invested in a character that the company displays an investment in over a character who is constantly phased in and out of the title picture and loses 50% of his matches.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Oct 31, 2014 14:55:32 GMT -5
If Zack Ryder wasn't ratings poison then maybe they would have stuck with him. But he was doing a bad job and driving away viewers, so what other choice did they have? Zack Ryder wasn't ratings poison though. When Zack Ryder was at his so called most popular time, his segments were doing by far worse than any other part of the show.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Oct 31, 2014 16:43:38 GMT -5
Zack Ryder wasn't ratings poison though. When Zack Ryder was at his so called most popular time, his segments were doing by far worse than any other part of the show. That's a poor way to examine ratings success. Considering how a two/three-hour-show fairs against other competing shows that start at different times, it's really unreliable to say "PEOPLE TUNE OUT TO SEE ZACK RYDER, LOOK AT THE RATINGS BREAKDOWN!" The two ways you measure success in wrestling are fan-engagement and ticket/merchandise sales. For both, Ryder was off the charts. Ratings breakdowns are entirely unreliable, you can find shows where the Cena segments are the lowest rated and he's been the company's go-to moneymaker forever.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 31, 2014 16:51:49 GMT -5
It's Benoit. Nothing else matches that. An internet favourite, and a guy who had the respect of the wrestling community in general I think. Finally reached the peak of his career. Had an iconic moment that should have lived on forever as a classic WWE image.....then.....
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Brood Lone Wolf Funker
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Post by Brood Lone Wolf Funker on Oct 31, 2014 17:26:28 GMT -5
Davey Richards
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Post by Mid-Carder on Oct 31, 2014 17:38:37 GMT -5
Benoit - Before the incident.... Everyone wanted this guy pushed to the moon. So they launch him into space and we realize.... Oh, he isn't that entertaining. Got the belt off of him ASAP and pushed right down to ECW. RVD - Everything everyone said was true. He was "held down" for good reason. In regards to Benoit, they had him play third wheel to the f***ing HHH/Eugene storyline. He was never given a chance because HHH still had to be the focal point. I think that's entirely unfair. Benoit never had the personality to be the top guy and I doubt they ever intended him to be. He couldn't have carried the company without any mic skills or personality of any kind except, of course, for his entirely negative personality. He was the "workhorse" champion and Triple H was still the biggest star because he had the personality. As for the Eugene thing, I don't think they intended for him to become as over as he was and simply struck while the iron was hot, so to speak
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 17:48:35 GMT -5
Imo, none of the guys mentioned here dropped the ball. They still found success in the end (benoit tarnished his legacy though) Now, a real case of indy darling dropping the ball is kaval WWE didn't do him any favors. Low-Ki straight up,said in an interview about a year ago that he just wasn't cut out to be a WWE guy. So if anything, WWE was right not to push someone that felt that way.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Oct 31, 2014 17:48:47 GMT -5
Colt Cabana..although he never even had the ball to begin with. Matt Sydal, before his horrible accident he got busted doing weed twice I think, I'm not certain. Brian Kendrick, he even admitted that he should've stop doing weed. Paul London, that fn smile. Chris Harris, knock knock who's there? Raven, He burned a lot of bridges when he returned to the wwe. Brent Albright, it wasn't even his fault, right in the middle of his angle Benoit decided to take some time off. Zack Ryder, according to Meltzer he once tried to improvise something on live tv and Vince got furious.
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King Koopa
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Post by 67 more on Oct 31, 2014 18:13:08 GMT -5
In regards to Benoit, they had him play third wheel to the f***ing HHH/Eugene storyline. He was never given a chance because HHH still had to be the focal point. I think that's entirely unfair. Benoit never had the personality to be the top guy and I doubt they ever intended him to be. He couldn't have carried the company without any mic skills or personality of any kind except, of course, for his entirely negative personality. He was the "workhorse" champion and Triple H was still the biggest star because he had the personality. As for the Eugene thing, I don't think they intended for him to become as over as he was and simply struck while the iron was hot, so to speak I've never bought that Benoit had no personality. His mic skills were hot garbage but so were Bret's. They both had loads of personality, though. The fact is they gave him absolute crap as champion. Once they'd done the obligatory rematch, he defended against Kane, was sent into a tag title feud with La Resistance (as the f***ing world champion) and was the third wheel in the Eugene storyline (hell, maybe even fourth behind Regal) before dropping it to an entirely far-too-young Randy Orton just to spite Brock Lesnar. Benoit had the ring skills and intensity to carry a brand for a few months but was not given a fair chance at that. Obviously, he was never going to be Rock and Austin level, but he deserved a proper thank you run. Instead he was swamped with shitty booking, so his reign became absolute shit.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Oct 31, 2014 18:30:33 GMT -5
Colt Cabana.. although he never even had the ball to begin with.Matt Sydal, before his horrible accident he got busted doing weed twice I think, I'm not certain. Brian Kendrick, he even admitted that he should've stop doing weed. Paul London, that fn smile. Chris Harris, knock knock who's there? Raven, He burned a lot of bridges when he returned to the wwe. Brent Albright, it wasn't even his fault, right in the middle of his angle Benoit decided to take some time off. Zack Ryder, according to Meltzer he once tried to improvise something on live tv and Vince got furious. If it's not someone's fault, then they didn't have the ball. Someone "dropping the ball" is an expression meaning someone had a proverbial ball that they were expected to carry and then dropped it. We may need to retire the expression "drop the ball" around here.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Oct 31, 2014 19:55:16 GMT -5
Benoit - Before the incident.... Everyone wanted this guy pushed to the moon. So they launch him into space and we realize.... Oh, he isn't that entertaining. Got the belt off of him ASAP and pushed right down to ECW. RVD - Everything everyone said was true. He was "held down" for good reason. In regards to Benoit, they had him play third wheel to the f***ing HHH/Eugene storyline. He was never given a chance because HHH still had to be the focal point. Hell, Benoit was third wheel to Kane, Lita and Matt Hardy when Kane was his PPV opponent.
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Post by sdoyle7798 on Oct 31, 2014 21:43:59 GMT -5
I'll still defend Hero for his overall work in NXT and an okay though certainly not ideal physique but yeah, it's reaaaaaallly tough to defend him with the way he looks now. Talk about seemingly trying to prove your haters right. He was in a wheelchair and couldn't work out for a summer. I defy anyone coming out of that looking like great. I get that, but why not at least wear a singlet?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2014 10:08:40 GMT -5
I think that's entirely unfair. Benoit never had the personality to be the top guy and I doubt they ever intended him to be. He couldn't have carried the company without any mic skills or personality of any kind except, of course, for his entirely negative personality. He was the "workhorse" champion and Triple H was still the biggest star because he had the personality. As for the Eugene thing, I don't think they intended for him to become as over as he was and simply struck while the iron was hot, so to speak I've never bought that Benoit had no personality. His mic skills were hot garbage but so were Bret's. They both had loads of personality, though. The fact is they gave him absolute crap as champion. Once they'd done the obligatory rematch, he defended against Kane, was sent into a tag title feud with La Resistance (as the f***ing world champion) and was the third wheel in the Eugene storyline (hell, maybe even fourth behind Regal) before dropping it to an entirely far-too-young Randy Orton just to spite Brock Lesnar. Benoit had the ring skills and intensity to carry a brand for a few months but was not given a fair chance at that. Obviously, he was never going to be Rock and Austin level, but he deserved a proper thank you run. Instead he was swamped with shitty booking, so his reign became absolute shit. Both Bret and Benoit had personality, they just weren't outrageous like Austin or Hogan. They were believable and less effusive. Bret was pretty bad as a babyface, but as a heel he was actually really good on the mic because he got to let his real personality fly into it. But Bret also had the benefit of getting the workhorse thing over when no one else was doing it, so that was a plus in his favor. He also had a better look than Benoit. Benoit was not and could never be a marquee name, same as Bret. He could be the hardcore wrestling fans' wet dream of a champion, but he was not going to draw beyond that. The booking is simply the evidence that creative knew this. They weren't going to invest in Benoit unless his popularity skyrocketed beyond what they imagined, and it didn't.
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MrElijah
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Post by MrElijah on Nov 1, 2014 10:23:20 GMT -5
WWE didn't do him any favors. Low-Ki straight up,said in an interview about a year ago that he just wasn't cut out to be a WWE guy. So if anything, WWE was right not to push someone that felt that way. True but WWE weird way of booking had to play a part. Not everyone has to be a world class asskicker but losing to Tyler Reks? Looking like a guy who can't win against Chavo?
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