riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Oct 31, 2014 9:29:38 GMT -5
It's funny how you always hear from the "good ol' boys" club (see Trips, Cena, etc.) how guys need to show initiative and be proactive in their career to get ahead. Yet, here we see examples of how the company would rather screw these people over and push someone else instead. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Bob Holly said the same thing in his book. He said he came up with some ideas for catchphrases, angles, and presented them to Vince and Vince liked them, but said "You're not one of the guys we're pushing now." In the end, and don't quote me on this, Holly said they actually used his ideas for Hunter and Jericho if I'm not mistaken.
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Post by Hypnosis on Oct 31, 2014 9:35:08 GMT -5
Bob Holly said the same thing in his book. He said he came up with some ideas for catchphrases, angles, and presented them to Vince and Vince liked them, but said "You're not one of the guys we're pushing now." In the end, and don't quote me on this, Holly said they actually used his ideas for Hunter and Jericho if I'm not mistaken. "How do ya like me now, ass-clown! I am that damn good!"
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kidkamikaze10
Dennis Stamp
Trying to think of a new avatar
Posts: 4,274
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on Oct 31, 2014 9:36:56 GMT -5
Well, just another reason for me to watch Lucha Underground (which is where Maxine is right now).
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Post by Mid-Carder on Oct 31, 2014 9:38:12 GMT -5
It's funny how you always hear from the "good ol' boys" club (see Trips, Cena, etc.) how guys need to show initiative and be proactive in their career to get ahead. Yet, here we see examples of how the company would rather screw these people over and push someone else instead. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Bob Holly said the same thing in his book. He said he came up with some ideas for catchphrases, angles, and presented them to Vince and Vince liked them, but said "You're not one of the guys we're pushing now." In the end, and don't quote me on this, Holly said they actually used his ideas for Hunter and Jericho if I'm not mistaken. But they were right. Bob Holly was neither very good nor over, HHH and Jericho were.
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Oct 31, 2014 9:57:59 GMT -5
Didn't something similar come out about somebody else - forget who, Mason Ryan maybe? - pitching the Hall of Pain idea? Somebody's gonna get their shtick nicked
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Post by BRAINFADE on Oct 31, 2014 10:16:30 GMT -5
Wasn't there a story floating around a few years back where a member of creative pitched an idea for Matt Hardy, and Vince basically said "That's a great idea, let's use it for someone who actually matters"?
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Post by abjordans on Oct 31, 2014 10:22:50 GMT -5
Ok, I am sorty, but these jobbers (Brodus Claw, Hawkins, and Reks) can't pitch these massive main event ideas for themselves and expect that to happen. Pitch a good midcard idea and go from there. Like WWE was really.going to let Hawkins and Rek hold Raw hostage and wrestle The Rock??
We also need to move passed the Ryder stuff. He took initiative and got himself a spot... And then blew it because he is not very good at anything. Once you get that shot, you gotta take it to the next level. Ryder is one of the corniest, hokiest characters they have ever had IMO. His catchphrases and stuff are one of the biggest examples of someone thinking something is cool that is so far from cool I can think of in any medium of entertainment ever. If you watched the video and heard the song "Hoeski" and still continued to believe that guy needed to be a relevant and important character in the over all story of WWE, I have no problem saying I don't respect your opinion.
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Post by Hypnosis on Oct 31, 2014 10:30:41 GMT -5
Ok, I am sorty, but these jobbers (Brodus Claw, Hawkins, and Reks) can't pitch these massive main event ideas for themselves and expect that to happen. Pitch a good midcard idea and go from there. Like WWE was really.going to let Hawkins and Rek hold Raw hostage and wrestle The Rock?? Rock:"Tyler Reks, you come out here looking like a jacked-up Rob Zombie and want to hold Raw hostage?! The Rock's going to take Curt Hawkins' head, shine it up real nice, turn that sumbitch sideways, and stick it straight up your candy ass!"
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,022
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Oct 31, 2014 10:50:44 GMT -5
Ok, I am sorty, but these jobbers (Brodus Claw, Hawkins, and Reks) can't pitch these massive main event ideas for themselves and expect that to happen. Pitch a good midcard idea and go from there. Like WWE was really.going to let Hawkins and Rek hold Raw hostage and wrestle The Rock?? We also need to move passed the Ryder stuff. He took initiative and got himself a spot... And then blew it because he is not very good at anything. Once you get that shot, you gotta take it to the next level. Ryder is one of the corniest, hokiest characters they have ever had IMO. His catchphrases and stuff are one of the biggest examples of someone thinking something is cool that is so far from cool I can think of in any medium of entertainment ever. If you watched the video and heard the song "Hoeski" and still continued to believe that guy needed to be a relevant and important character in the over all story of WWE, I have no problem saying I don't respect your opinion. If you're going to ask for an angle, why not aim for the top? It changes on a case by case basis. The Maxine one: They took her idea and gave it to someone on the same level on the totem pole who was less skilled in the role, turned her into a copy of the person who pitched it then told the other one to change herself till she left. Brodus Clay: You can say he's a jobber now, but at the time, a dominant heel coming in and hurting people is a tried and tested method of getting a monster over, hell they're pretty much doing that with Rusev now, who when he started had no name and no value, and the angle gave it to him. Hawkins/Rek: Yeah, that was too ambitious, they were established as jobbers by that point. Ryder: It's 50/50. He made a name for himself in taped segments online, so they stick him in live segments which aren't his skill, booked against his strengths and made him a joke. However, at some point as a talent you have to rise above that kind of thing. Mark Henry is the father of a hand who has underage sex with his sister but he got over it, the Ringmaster, Rocky Maivia, all the stuff they put Daniel Bryan through. Some talent can make crap work or make people forget it, Ryder was not one of those guys. He didn't help himself, but his booking did him no favours.
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Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
Posts: 90,480
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Post by Chainsaw on Oct 31, 2014 11:02:25 GMT -5
Why do I feel like they gave it to Aksana because she was blonde at the time? It sounds petty, but I feel like that's the level of WWE management.
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Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
Posts: 90,480
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Post by Chainsaw on Oct 31, 2014 11:04:24 GMT -5
Brodus Clay pitched the Hall of Pain idea. Also I believe Curt Hawkins and Tyler Reks pitched the Awesome Truth angle for themselves. It's so stupid. "Show some initiative, try and get yourselves over! But keep in mind, we might just nick your ideas and keep you doing shit all!" That, sir, is the Corporate Way!
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Post by abjordans on Oct 31, 2014 11:10:39 GMT -5
Because most of the guys who get used as examples of coming up with something for themselves and running with it to the top didn't start at the top. They ended up there, but they didn't pitch it as them just showing up in the main event. That is what I think a lot of these guys miss. They say they come up with these storylines, but they are always overly ambitious and roles they aren't suited for. Half the time I don't even believe it, it is really easy to sit and say "that was my idea" way after the fact.
In the case of Brodus Clay, he is saying the Hall of Pain push was his idea, minus the Hall of Pain part, so it was basically just an idea for a monster heel push. Guess what, Tyrus? That idea has been around since the dawn of time. Him saying that was his idea and stolen and given to Henry is laughable. Also, Brodus has one of the least intimidating looks I have ever seen on a big guy. His mohawk looks goofy, his outfit is ridiculous, and he is very squishy looking. Mark Henry has the total package. The look, the delivery, he is perfect for the role. More sour grapes. He should be happy to have been The Funkasaurus. He got a decently long run on TV every week and probably made some money selling merch. He is a memorable mid carder they will bring back in comedy spots in the future. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 18:43:15 GMT -5
It's funny how you always hear from the "good ol' boys" club (see Trips, Cena, etc.) how guys need to show initiative and be proactive in their career to get ahead. Yet, here we see examples of how the company would rather screw these people over and push someone else instead. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Bob Holly said the same thing in his book. He said he came up with some ideas for catchphrases, angles, and presented them to Vince and Vince liked them, but said "You're not one of the guys we're pushing now." In the end, and don't quote me on this, Holly said they actually used his ideas for Hunter and Jericho if I'm not mistaken. If memory serves pretty sure I've heard he was the one originally planned to be called The Game.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 18:57:35 GMT -5
Bob Holly said the same thing in his book. He said he came up with some ideas for catchphrases, angles, and presented them to Vince and Vince liked them, but said "You're not one of the guys we're pushing now." In the end, and don't quote me on this, Holly said they actually used his ideas for Hunter and Jericho if I'm not mistaken. If memory serves pretty sure I've heard he was the one originally planned to be called The Game. I thought that was Owen Hart.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Oct 31, 2014 18:59:27 GMT -5
If memory serves pretty sure I've heard he was the one originally planned to be called The Game. I thought that was Owen Hart. Yeah, everything I've ever heard was taht Owen was going to be the Game.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 19:02:59 GMT -5
I thought that was Owen Hart. Yeah, everything I've ever heard was taht Owen was going to be the Game. Oh, right. Yeah, wires crossed there, remember it being Owen now that I see that pointed out.
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Post by Prince Petty on Oct 31, 2014 19:52:49 GMT -5
It's not really mind-boggling at all. A minor talent came to them with an idea, they liked it, so they stole it and presented it as their own. Happens all the time, I would think.
This is why the 'Creative has nothing for you' thing can probably be a catch 22. Sure, you can approach them with ideas of your own, push yourself as capable of doing these things, but they have no obligation to implement those ideas with you.
Crummy that this is the way the WWE operates, but I don't think it's at all surprising. Even when they do apparently come up with their own ideas, they suck. As Maxine's example proves, when they didn't do anything interesting at all with Aksana and Teddy, and it just fizzled into nothing.
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,573
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Post by cjh on Oct 31, 2014 20:27:50 GMT -5
It's not really mind-boggling at all. A minor talent came to them with an idea, they liked it, so they stole it and presented it as their own. Happens all the time, I would think. It's the last part that's mind boggling. Maxine and Aksana have noticeably different gimmicks. WWE tells Aksana to change her look and persona to be more like Maxine. WWE tells Maxine she's going to have to come up with a new look and gimmick because she's too similar to Aksana. It's like when they were upset that Joey Styles didn't announce the Jim Ross way, even they chose to dump JR and replace him.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Oct 31, 2014 20:54:35 GMT -5
Bob Holly said the same thing in his book. He said he came up with some ideas for catchphrases, angles, and presented them to Vince and Vince liked them, but said "You're not one of the guys we're pushing now." In the end, and don't quote me on this, Holly said they actually used his ideas for Hunter and Jericho if I'm not mistaken. But they were right. Bob Holly was neither very good nor over, HHH and Jericho were. So when someone comes up with an idea to enhance their character so they can actually GET over, it should be given to someone who already is?
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Post by angryfan on Nov 1, 2014 14:54:44 GMT -5
Ok, I am sorty, but these jobbers (Brodus Claw, Hawkins, and Reks) can't pitch these massive main event ideas for themselves and expect that to happen. Pitch a good midcard idea and go from there. Like WWE was really.going to let Hawkins and Rek hold Raw hostage and wrestle The Rock?? We also need to move passed the Ryder stuff. He took initiative and got himself a spot... And then blew it because he is not very good at anything. Once you get that shot, you gotta take it to the next level. Ryder is one of the corniest, hokiest characters they have ever had IMO. His catchphrases and stuff are one of the biggest examples of someone thinking something is cool that is so far from cool I can think of in any medium of entertainment ever. If you watched the video and heard the song "Hoeski" and still continued to believe that guy needed to be a relevant and important character in the over all story of WWE, I have no problem saying I don't respect your opinion. Here's the thing. Vince "likes guys who get in his face" and "you gotta make your own opportunity". Yet if you're met with, "We love it, we'll use it for someone else, you're not who we want to push", then...what's the option? Sure, I'd be happy to feed you ideas while I work in jobber matches and get no chance to ever get over, then get released and have whatever credibility or name I have blocked from my use so I can't get decent paydays on the indy scene.
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