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Post by tropicalstormstl on Nov 19, 2014 1:12:49 GMT -5
Angle over Joe. To me, nothing signifies the ineptness of TNA moreso than this one moment. If they'd spent all those years using the wcw/ecw/wwe guys to put over their own guys they would have created a generation of stars. Instead we got to watch the decline of several prominent stars of the attitude era while they and the booker man held down an entire generation of emerging stars.
I loved TNA so much for a long time because it really felt like something different but in the end they became a bad remake of other peoples old reruns.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 1:13:56 GMT -5
Moving this to the TNA forum.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Nov 19, 2014 1:21:04 GMT -5
Worst decision TNA ever made and I don't even mean Angle beating Joe. The match should not have happened for at least 6 months. Once they knew Kurt was coming in, they should have changed the their plans for the title with Joe getting the belt at BFG, then he and Kurt are kept apart until Lockdown where Kurt wins by cheating and finally Joe chases until BFG 07 and gets his revenge and title.
I get why they went to the match and since it was Kurt's TNA debut they had him go over but I still don't like it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 1:30:01 GMT -5
Yeah, build it up for much longer than they did and have Joe go over. Get Angle to put over how Joe was unlike anyone that he's ever faced before and, if you want to give Angle a win, show him training for the rematch, hype it up, talk about how he's never had to train this hard since the Olympics, just put over Joe as the ultimate challenge. It would've done a tremendous amount of good for the company and both Angle and Joe would look like a million bucks after it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 12:15:55 GMT -5
Just throwing this out there, this was the same PPV where Abyss won the title by being savagely beaten by Sting for no real reason other than so Abyss would win the title. I'm more inclined to call that stupid.
Really, I never really had much of a problem with Angle winning that first match, though they really should have built up to it much longer than they did. Wait six months and have Joe have the title going in (I'm still inclined to call that match he had with Jarrett being non-title and getting no follow-up being the biggest misstep in Joe potentially being the top name the company needed), then it could have been a much bigger deal.
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Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Superior One
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Post by Celgress on Nov 19, 2014 13:24:03 GMT -5
Worst decision TNA ever made and I don't even mean Angle beating Joe. The match should not have happened for at least 6 months. Once they knew Kurt was coming in, they should have changed the their plans for the title with Joe getting the belt at BFG, then he and Kurt are kept apart until Lockdown where Kurt wins by cheating and finally Joe chases until BFG 07 and gets his revenge and title.... I couldn't have put it better myself, their early program was a disaster of epic proportions.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Nov 19, 2014 13:34:08 GMT -5
Seriously, I can't believe they rushed right into the first match. That's a prime example of why TNA will never succeed in the long run. You couldn't have built the match up for a few months? Yes, they popped a great buyrate for that first match. That's all fine and dandy but how many more buyrates they could have gotten if they actually built the match up for a while? Have Angle and Joe cross paths here and there but don't let them actually touch until Angle's been in the company for 4 or 5 months.
Never mind that, why in the actual f*** would you do three consecutive PPV matches? By the time the third match happened, the bloom was off the rose. If you are gonna do three matches, stretch it out over a calender year instead of just blowing your load right away. Even in success, TNA managed to be totally inept. It was actually kinda amazing to watch. By the time Joe/Angle had their match for all the belts at Hard Justice 07, it came off like just another match between two dudes in TNA which was emphasized by the build being based around KAREN ANGLE instead of these two world class athletes trying to see who's the best. That's pathetic.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 19, 2014 16:08:43 GMT -5
I think this is a very, very fair thing to say, and it showed that TNA, at least at that phase (and, really, well after it), was not equipped to handle a character or storyline that could put them on the map.
Joe was the hottest ticket TNA had during that time, and their booking showed it. If they had carried on, he could've been a lynchpin for them to build the rest of the show around. Having him fight Angle made all the sense in the world...but NOT only one month in after Angle's debut, and even worse to have them fight to a clean finish in a relatively short PPV match. They clearly wanted to do a Joe vs. Angle trilogy, but they spent no creative effort to get fans to want it more, to get the wrestling world buzzing about it, to make sure it was must-see PPV-TV whenever it happened, all because they just HAD to give it away early, and end Joe's mystique/unbeaten streak in the process.
TNA wasn't perfect during this era, but Joe was red hot and Angle signing with them was enormous news. They didn't commit an act of wrestlecrap by doing what they did, but out of any non-wrestlecrappy options, they chose the absolute worst one for building their brand and cementing their new star.
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4real
Wade Wilson
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Post by 4real on Nov 20, 2014 16:59:28 GMT -5
I still say that moment was the start of everything going downhill for TNA, they were a company I wanted to believe in and with that one moment I just sort of gave up on them. I still watched sometimes and I filtered in and out but TNA was never as exciting again for me, apart from Aries beating Roode for the title maybe.
It was their first really big mistake in my view and then after that it became the norm.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Nov 20, 2014 17:05:42 GMT -5
If Hogan's arrival was the Fingerpoke of Doom, Angle/Joe was Hogan/Sting at Starrcade.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 20, 2014 19:33:02 GMT -5
I still say that moment was the start of everything going downhill for TNA, they were a company I wanted to believe in and with that one moment I just sort of gave up on them. I still watched sometimes and I filtered in and out but TNA was never as exciting again for me, apart from Aries beating Roode for the title maybe. It was their first really big mistake in my view and then after that it became the norm. Hell, Aries beating Roode was, in a lot of ways, a continuation of this trend. I think most people agreed that, when it happened, Aries beating Roode was the right thing to do; Aries was on fire, the crowd was foaming at the mouth for it, and TNA delivered it. Sounds good, right? Then just a couple of months later, Aries had to turn heel so they could do the Jeff Hardy "redemption story". ...Why? Is Aries your new star or not? What are you aiming to accomplish here? Hell, all of it even meant giving up on doing Roode vs. Storm III at BFG as the "settle the score" final matchup for the title, but you could argue it was worth giving up on that to get the belt on Aries. So why go back on that and immediately shift it to Hardy? No long term thinking.
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Post by lildude8218 on Nov 20, 2014 19:42:08 GMT -5
the fact of the matter is that Joe should have been defeated LONG before he ever had a match with Angle. someone should have been built up and taken the X-Division title off of him.
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Post by chronocross on Nov 23, 2014 11:04:06 GMT -5
Also, the follow up in 2007 where they had Joe look like the biggest idiot out there by falling for the Angle family swerve which led to Angle having all the titles. When he finally won the TNA title in 08, I didn't really care so much.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 12:15:57 GMT -5
Also, the follow up in 2007 where they had Joe look like the biggest idiot out there by falling for the Angle family swerve which led to Angle having all the titles. When he finally won the TNA title in 08, I didn't really care so much. Nah, that didn't make Joe look like the biggest idiot in the world. Handing the title over to Angle in the King of the Mountain match did that.
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Post by chronocross on Nov 23, 2014 12:36:48 GMT -5
Also, the follow up in 2007 where they had Joe look like the biggest idiot out there by falling for the Angle family swerve which led to Angle having all the titles. When he finally won the TNA title in 08, I didn't really care so much. Nah, that didn't make Joe look like the biggest idiot in the world. Handing the title over to Angle in the King of the Mountain match did that. I completely forgot that happened. It was just one blunder after the other with their handling of Joe and Angle. As others have mentioned, would've kept them apart, maybe have a pull apart brawl here and there, then later that year would have had them face off.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Nov 23, 2014 12:49:50 GMT -5
Kurt is my favorite ever and I never really liked Joe.
Still, this was a terrible decision. Not only should they have not blown their load immediately, they also should have had Joe go over first.
Also Angle didn't need to be glorified AS much as they did. It overexposed him and really turned me off the product and made me not want to follow Angle anymore.
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Post by kidtamagotchi on Nov 24, 2014 2:17:02 GMT -5
I was disappointed when Angle beat Joe. They had three matches in a row, second one was good, but the one involving Karen Angle was so Russo-riffic, I didn't like it. If only they built up to it, made people want to see the match so bad, and make Joe and Angle their top stars.
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Glitch
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Watching you.
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Post by Glitch on Nov 24, 2014 2:28:12 GMT -5
I still say that moment was the start of everything going downhill for TNA, they were a company I wanted to believe in and with that one moment I just sort of gave up on them. I still watched sometimes and I filtered in and out but TNA was never as exciting again for me, apart from Aries beating Roode for the title maybe. It was their first really big mistake in my view and then after that it became the norm. Hell, Aries beating Roode was, in a lot of ways, a continuation of this trend. I think most people agreed that, when it happened, Aries beating Roode was the right thing to do; Aries was on fire, the crowd was foaming at the mouth for it, and TNA delivered it. Sounds good, right? Then just a couple of months later, Aries had to turn heel so they could do the Jeff Hardy "redemption story". ...Why? Is Aries your new star or not? What are you aiming to accomplish here? Hell, all of it even meant giving up on doing Roode vs. Storm III at BFG as the "settle the score" final matchup for the title, but you could argue it was worth giving up on that to get the belt on Aries. So why go back on that and immediately shift it to Hardy? No long term thinking. The shift to Hardy wasn't even the worst part. The Aces & 8s storyline pretty much killed Aries' title reign. Not only was he not the focus of the company during that time, but they forced him to become the goody-goody,role model super face. He had none of the the smart ass remarks that made him who he was, and he had the spotlight taken from him by hogan. I'm still pissed that we got robbed of an actual Aries title reign.
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Post by blackmegaman on Nov 24, 2014 4:21:58 GMT -5
I still say that moment was the start of everything going downhill for TNA, they were a company I wanted to believe in and with that one moment I just sort of gave up on them. I still watched sometimes and I filtered in and out but TNA was never as exciting again for me, apart from Aries beating Roode for the title maybe. It was their first really big mistake in my view and then after that it became the norm. Hell, Aries beating Roode was, in a lot of ways, a continuation of this trend. I think most people agreed that, when it happened, Aries beating Roode was the right thing to do; Aries was on fire, the crowd was foaming at the mouth for it, and TNA delivered it. Sounds good, right? Then just a couple of months later, Aries had to turn heel so they could do the Jeff Hardy "redemption story". ...Why? Is Aries your new star or not? What are you aiming to accomplish here? Hell, all of it even meant giving up on doing Roode vs. Storm III at BFG as the "settle the score" final matchup for the title, but you could argue it was worth giving up on that to get the belt on Aries. So why go back on that and immediately shift it to Hardy? No long term thinking. And let's not forget that the heel turn was on the GO HOME SHOW to the ppv , which to me was just maddening .
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Post by ________ has left the building on Nov 24, 2014 8:51:33 GMT -5
Honestly I think TNA did Joe vs Angle so soon was because even TNA didn't know how long before Kurt broke down. That's has to be the only logical explanation for that decision. Joe should had won the first showdown. Him losing basically said no matter how good someone is in TNA, they aren't just as good or better than someone from WWE. Even someone who was screwed up mentally and physically like Angle.
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